nut files

[squierkid]

whats the cheapest yet reliable way to file a nut, ive seen some files at stewmac, but i cant afford nothing that costs more than 20 bucks yet

[Mr. B]

With $20 to spend, your best bet is probably to pick up a pre-slotted nut. Those files that Stewmac carry really are the business though, so if you see yourself doing much nut work in the future a set would be worth saving for.

[Bluej58]

I hear about folks getting a torch orifice cleaning set, and I read somewhere to save your wound string cut offs and crazy glue them to a dowel rod, it works nice for polishing up the slots as a finishing touch.
But nothing beats a good set of files

[squierkid]

Blue j , your idea seems really logical, using old strings as tools is something worth trying, i will post replies of how it turns out when i have time.

Mr. B. Really understand what you are saying, i will definately buy the set in a future, i bought the nut blank without slotting by mistake( the pictures or something got mixed up.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by squierkid

Mr. B. Really understand what you are saying, i will definately buy the set in a future, i bought the nut blank without slotting by mistake( the pictures or something got mixed up.

Keep in mind that Pre-slotted nuts still require final filing after installation.

[Nick JD]

This works - and as a bonus the slots are kinda rounded at the bottom:

Get a feeler gauge set (cheap, from auto parts shop) and some 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper.

Find the gauge slightly smaller than the string diameter for that slot - the extra thickness of the sandpaper will give you an appropriate slot width (slightly more than the string diameter).

Wrap the sandpaper around the feeler gauge and cut, frequently changing the position of the paper on the feeler gauge's edge.

[leebman]

Good files are worth the money but you can make a substitute by gluing string offcuts into wet and dry paper this makes very narrow round files suitable for bottom 4 strings use narrow gauges to allow for the paper width. And a razor saw for the e and b go careful when cutting the slots with the saw it cuts fast! All for less than $10

[Rob DiStefano]

there is no viable way to properly and professionally cut nut slots without using proper and professional nut files (not all nut files are worthy, either). the sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be. if yer in this guitar game for life, spend the $40 or so on a trio of files and just be done with it. why people who spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on guitars and amps look for an impossibly cheap way around caring for their precious gear is beyond my comprehension.

[jivetrain]

nut files are a necessary part of the job and if you're not going to use them you shouldn't expect good results; any success people have with their homemade tools is miraculous in my opinion. there's too many factors determining whether the slot will work without buzzing or binding to trust the job to some piece of scrap metal with sandpaper glued onto it.

no one wants to buy the files if they can help it, a single person has yet to chime in and claim that they enjoy dropping $60 whenever they can, but they cost that much because they're good quality tools. if you're making a new nut from a blank, which it seems you are; why go through all the trouble of sanding and shaping just to wind up putting shoddy slots into it that'll probably drive you to replace the nut again? if you're going to make a new nut, may as well get it perfect the first time so that you never have to carve another.

[Flat357]

Necessary product , but probably the biggest rip off in the guitar tools range .

http://www.allparts.uk.com/slotting-...html?p=product

£84.33 for 3 files is disgraceful .

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Flat357

Necessary product , but probably the biggest rip off in the guitar tools range .

http://www.allparts.uk.com/slotting-...html?p=product

£84.33 for 3 files is disgraceful .

that's WAY high priced. gauged nut files at stew-mac are $13 each.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...ing_Files.html

[Flat357]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

that's WAY high priced. gauged nut files at stew-mac are $13 each.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...ing_Files.html

Yep .
Can't argue with that price , and shipping shouldn't be much to the UK .
As you can see , the UK has a habit of taking advantage of it's consumers on more than just fuel and tobacco .

[KevinB]

Originally Posted by Flat357

Yep .
Can't argue with that price , and shipping shouldn't be much to the UK .
As you can see , the UK has a habit of taking advantage of it's consumers on more than just fuel and tobacco .

I don't think it's just the UK - the Allparts site in the US lists those same files for $120! I would definitely go with the StewMac ones (in fact I did), or the ones that Lmii sells for around $60 per set.

As many here have suggested, there really is no substitute for good nut files.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

there is no viable way to properly and professionally cut nut slots without using proper and professional nut files (not all nut files are worthy, either). the sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be. if yer in this guitar game for life, spend the $40 or so on a trio of files and just be done with it. why people who spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on guitars and amps look for an impossibly cheap way around caring for their precious gear is beyond my comprehension.

Rob...as you and I both know too well...this will never end !...It has to come up every month, just like PMS.....

[Flat357]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

Rob...as you and I both know too well...this will never end !...It has to come up every month, just like PMS.....

A bit self righteous don't you think ?

Many guys out there have a guitar , and no income , or spare income etc etc .
Some also have cheap as chips guitars too , which still need a nut .
There are many DIY methods to get a good result with a nut . Having nut files helps , but doesn't guarantee a good job either be it in the hands of an amateur or a so called pro , as most of us have found out the hard way when allowing someone else to do the job .
On a forum that has thousands of threads every week , there's nothing wrong with the subject , or any other subject being rediscussed .
It's all good

[Mr. B]

Originally Posted by Flat357

Yep .
Can't argue with that price , and shipping shouldn't be much to the UK .

Nope, I got a set of 6 from Stewmac a while back for about £55, including shipping. Their basic shipping rate to the UK is barely any more than what companies such as Allparts UK will charge.
Plus, I've always had problems with lead and delivery times from Allparts...but I'm drifting off topic now...


I'm with Rob D on this one. Of course, nut blanks are relatively cheap, and if you want to experiment with any of the other methods brought up in this thread (nothing wrong with a little ingenuity) then that's cool. Even with the proper files it'll take a little practice to cut the perfect nut.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Flat357

A bit self righteous don't you think ?

Many guys out there have a guitar , and no income , or spare income etc etc .
Some also have cheap as chips guitars too , which still need a nut .
There are many DIY methods to get a good result with a nut . Having nut files helps , but doesn't guarantee a good job either be it in the hands of an amateur or a so called pro , as most of us have found out the hard way when allowing someone else to do the job .
On a forum that has thousands of threads every week , there's nothing wrong with the subject , or any other subject being rediscussed .
It's all good

If you say so.

[Rob DiStefano]

hey, you think you can't spare a green grant for real files and ya wanna use needle files and wound string pieces super glued to popsicle sticks, have at it.

yeah, this topic will always surface more sooner than later, and why some of us curmudgeons will say what we hafta say. self righteous? nah, more of a reality check on those that don't know and a poke at those who really should know better ... yeah, you with the $1000 mia tele moaning about parting with $50.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

hey, you think you can't spare a green grant for real files and ya wanna use needle files and wound string pieces super glued to popsicle sticks, have at it.

yeah, this topic will always surface more sooner than later, and why some of us curmudgeons will say what we hafta say. self righteous? nah, more of a reality check on those that don't know and a poke at those who really should know better ... yeah, you with the $1000 mia tele moaning about parting with $50.

Rob...I've been doing some research on a miniature species of Beaver, that can double as a Tidy House Pet...and also gnaw out Nut Slots....

[Flat357]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

If you say so.

I do

[otterhound]

Probably been covered before . Nut files are available through CF Martin as well . That's where I got mine .

[Flat357]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

hey, you think you can't spare a green grant for real files and ya wanna use needle files and wound string pieces super glued to popsicle sticks, have at it.

yeah, this topic will always surface more sooner than later, and why some of us curmudgeons will say what we hafta say. self righteous? nah, more of a reality check on those that don't know and a poke at those who really should know better ... yeah, you with the $1000 mia tele moaning about parting with $50.

Rob ,
Many of us have the correct files .
My point is that firstly they aren't cheap , as you saw the quoted price in the UK first hand , secondly , not everyone has the internet to buy them , or even know they exist , and guys who aren't working rarely can afford them .

The vast majority of players , in particular hobbyists , buy / receive a guitar and play it .
They start from not knowing a nut from their elbow , and gradually learn the basics of how their instrument functions .
A large percentage only get to know what a nut is for when they have a problem with their guitars , and take it to a tech , who either repairs or replaces it .
Often , that is the first understanding that they receive .

Now they know what the nut does , they are capable of assessing a future dilemma , and with a little knowledge , repairing the nut .
Most guitarists , and this time , I include pro's , and dedicated players alike , will rarely cut a nut from scratch , and instead , offer ongoing maintenance to their instrument , unless they are particularly tech minded .

The pro's etc will encounter the issue more so than the hobbyist , and might invest in a set of files , as theirs is a much more needy requirement . The majority of hobbyists will either take it back to the tech , or have a go with what ever means they have of fixing it , as they might only get the problem once every few years regarding replacement or repair .
They don't have a large collection of instruments like many of us here , and so it is logical to them to not spend too much money on professional tools , especially when those tools might cost the same as the guitars they possess .

Little tips and tricks are worth their weight in gold to these guys , so let's not give them the blanket statement of ' get yourself the right tools ' .

We've all put cigarette papers under our strings in the nut slot before , and we've all opened our box of tricks at that critical time only to find out we've left something on the work bench before leaving for the gig .

Yes , a file is best , but when you don't have one , getting a few tips on the forums , even if it's deja vous every month , on how to make do has got to be a good thing .

[Nick JD]

The Lexus of nut files.



Good tools not only make good guitars, they are satisfying to use.

The average guitar owner would use them about three times in their life. Satisfactory nuts can be made easily without them.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Nick JD

The average guitar owner would use them about three times in their life. Satisfactory nuts can be made easily without them.

I guess it all depends on your degree of Satisfactory......

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

I guess it all depends on your degree of Satisfactory......

...and your abilities to think your way around a problem with an empty wallet. Money often impedes invention.

All the luthiery tools we now consider necessary, were once improvisations. I'd imagine many of the staff at FMIC would consider the router an incorrect/obsolete method for making a guitar now. Your average Fender never touches a router.

[leebman]

There's nothing wrong with homemade tools you can do a decent job with them in the past thats all there was most luthiers made their own tools. The original post said budget $20 if it said $60 nut files no question.

[jivetrain]

i don't understand the argument that there's absolutely nothing wrong with homemade tools; just because you can file the slot to the right depth doesn't mean it works. for one, most homemade tools that i've seen on the forums don't create a rounded slot bottom. before i bought my own files i tried to have a local tech do the work since i didn't know anything about it, just as flat357 said, and he didn't have nut files in his shop. i don't know what makeshift tool he used to get the job done, but the slot was a sharp V shape and my tuning was horribly unstable. not only did messing with alternative tools create a worthless nut, in the end it wound up costing me more money since i had to pay for the job and then buy the stewmac files on top of that to fix the nut myself. that experience has turned me off to the idea of cutting any corners on the nut work.

it's extremely important to have the string cradled by the entire bottom of the slot to avoid issues like that, and only a real rounded edge file can do that well. feeler gauges with sandpaper may approximate a round shape, but i still don't think it's good enough. the slot also has to be angled evenly towards the headstock and consistently shaped without any bumps or burrs inside it in order to avoid buzzing and rattling. if you trust your homemade tools to do all of this just as well as the stewmac files and can irrefutably prove that your slots function perfectly, i'll be happy to know how you did it; it could save everyone here a lot of cash. until that happens, i'll be sticking with the stewmac files.

[leebman]

The home made files make a round slot because the paper conforms to the round shape of the string the glue then stiffens the paper and stops the string from bending. Its simple and effective if your on a budget as I've said before if you've got the cash or you plan to do many nuts get the files.

[squierkid]

These are alot if nice ideas. As i stated before, i will definately buy the files in a future, but not know , the budget is 20 bucks. The nut ill be making is for a squier affinity tele.the feelergauge for car parts seems as it would work( and i have them as i fix cars) but i guess i would have to start with them and then use the sytring to round the bottom a bit. I also liked the old string glued to sandpaper idea, i will try it and post how it turned out.

I know many of you guys are right about buying the nut files but i dont work(17) and its the only nut i will file for about six months or more, I will also need to buy parts and pickups for my other instruments ,wont say how much ive spent on this learning experience( because I dont remember) but its more than 400 bucks.

project description:

-Squier affinity i bought new for 200
- Refinish it , all parts replaced with gfs ones, refinish the neck( the guitar wasnt all that perfect.( bone nut came in because i broke the stock one while takingit out, i bought a bone nut that wasnt slotted by accident, already shaped it, only need the slots.

Before you guys say anything I know the price of the guitar was high and I made alot of mistakes , but the important part is the learning experience, Ths will definately not be the only guitar i mod and i willeven build guitars in a future Many thanks to all

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by jivetrain

i don't understand the argument that there's absolutely nothing wrong with homemade tools; just because you can file the slot to the right depth doesn't mean it works. for one, most homemade tools that i've seen on the forums don't create a rounded slot bottom. before i bought my own files i tried to have a local tech do the work since i didn't know anything about it, just as flat357 said, and he didn't have nut files in his shop. i don't know what makeshift tool he used to get the job done, but the slot was a sharp V shape and my tuning was horribly unstable. not only did messing with alternative tools create a worthless nut, in the end it wound up costing me more money since i had to pay for the job and then buy the stewmac files on top of that to fix the nut myself. that experience has turned me off to the idea of cutting any corners on the nut work.

it's extremely important to have the string cradled by the entire bottom of the slot to avoid issues like that, and only a real rounded edge file can do that well. feeler gauges with sandpaper may approximate a round shape, but i still don't think it's good enough. the slot also has to be angled evenly towards the headstock and consistently shaped without any bumps or burrs inside it in order to avoid buzzing and rattling. if you trust your homemade tools to do all of this just as well as the stewmac files and can irrefutably prove that your slots function perfectly, i'll be happy to know how you did it; it could save everyone here a lot of cash. until that happens, i'll be sticking with the stewmac files.

Thank you Jivetrain....well stated, and to the point.

[mellecaster]

Although......I'm still warming up to my idea above of the Miniature Beaver...

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

Although......I'm still warming up to my idea above of the Miniature Beaver...

[jefrs]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

that's WAY high priced. gauged nut files at stew-mac are $13 each.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...ing_Files.html

and http://www.allparts.uk.com/slotting-...html?p=product

They are not the same files.

They are both made by Hiroshima. The Allparts item are three double-sided shaping files for finishing all six slots, V-shaped with rounded edge, the smallest is much finer than any swiss needle file. The Stewmac files (also available from Allparts) are gauged slotting files, parallel-sided with only cutting edges, they are actually slitting saws and easily broken. I have both.

They are hideously expensive but they are easy to use and do a far, far better job than home-made tools (been there, done that).

The slitting-saw files have to be exactly gauged to the string set whereas the V-shaped ones suit a range of sizes. Imo the "Allparts item" are easiest to use and the V-shape allows the string to slide cleanly through without binding.

[popeye]

To any and all of you who are against home tools and I am not just talking about nut files here. Necessity is the mother of invention. Never forget that. Never forget that. People who make their own tools are thinkers and problem solvers and masters of the greatest tool of them all; the human brain. You can buy a brand new tool but it won't work for you until you LEARN how to use it. In the end this 17 year old new kid on the block may very well save enough $ to buy a nice set of nut files like the rest of us have. Or maybe not. Maybe he will come up with a brand new idea that none of us could have ever thought. Maybe he will shock us all with a better way to skin the proverbial cat. Necessity is the mother of invention. I have repeated this for those of you with short attention spans.

You want to arrogantly slam home made tools? Then you will have to slam Thomas Alva Edison, Henry Ford, Tesla, Einstein and all of the other great thinkers of our time. Go ahead. I dare you.

[Astro1176]

Well said Popeye. The best tools in the world are only any good if you know exactly what you are trying to achieve with them, and there's only so much you can learn from books. I learnt a lot from my bodges and occasional botches over the years, you can really understand the issues more if you have experienced them.

Nut files are a funny tool. I still don't have any. If I had bought some when I got my first guitar 25 years ago, by now I would have used them on 4 nuts for a total of about 6 minutes filing. Maybe I have been lucky, but the nuts have all just needed minor tweaking, and I have been able to bodge them all with home made stuff so that the nuts all work brilliantly. Took more than 6 minutes of my life by not having the right tools, I guess if I'd had the files I could have saved half an hour.

[Rob DiStefano]

jefrs - gauged nut files are, imho, the best - not those v round edged ones. gauged files have parallel sides, which makes for a proper nut slot.

popeye - yer making a general assessment of a comment i made solely.about files for cutting nuts. there are lotsa things that can employ a rube goldberg creation for getting a job done right for cheap, but nut cutting isn't one of them, imho.

as i stated, you wanna create alternative ways/tools for nut cutting, so be it, not a thing wrong with that. but do allow me to reiterate - if yer more than a casual guitarist, how much does $50 (or even $100) stack up to the coin you've already shelled out for yer gear? can you be THAT cheap?

cutting nut slots really does require a proper tool to get it done right, and the files will last the average dedicated guitarist for decades. yeah, some folks can go into the woods with a bowie knife and carve out a good existance, but that ain't everybody. the same applies with cutting a fretted instrument nut.

astro - when ya can afford to buy 3 nut files and use them, you'll realize what you've been missing ...

[otterhound]

Edison , Einstein and Ford . Consider them slammed . I just want to know if the Hiroshima files glow . I have Swiss nut files and they are neutral .

[Astro1176]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

astro - when ya can afford to buy 3 nut files and use them, you'll realize what you've been missing ...

I have used fantastic tools for other purposes, I am fully aware of what difference the right high quality tools can make, and I really wish I had some. I also love using fine quality tools, and possessing them, just for the sake of it too. Unfortunately my list of tools that I want/need is bigger than my income, and I must prioritise... fret files are nowhere near the top of the list yet.

[MickM]

These ain't twenty bucks but they're well made and good folks to deal with.
http://axinc.net/storefront/p-151-nu...files-set.aspx

[jivetrain]

Originally Posted by popeye

Necessity is the mother of invention. Never forget that. Never forget that. I have repeated this for those of you with short attention spans.

i don't think there's anything arrogant about stating what your own experience has led you to believe. owning a set of nut files doesn't exactly inspire feelings of superiority. the question was what the cheapest yet reliable way to file a nut is, not which way is cheapest period. i think a reliable job requires reliable tools.

i don't remember anyone arguing that innovation is somehow foolish, it's just that when the right tool has already been innovated, and you're likely to take a long and bumpy road which will at best replicate the same thing by experimenting without it, maybe it's better to just shell out for the right tool and take the simpler path. if squirekid wants to experiment that's ok, but i think he should be warned that it likely will not be worth the trouble. besides, how much room for improvement over current files do you think there is?

you're right to say that it's your knowledge that determines how well the nut will be cut in the end, but how exactly does that fit into the argument? are you saying that it's somehow better to use makeshift tools as long as you know what you're doing? wouldn't it be best to have great tools and good experience?