middle pickup for tele?

[hollander]

Just bought a new Hamer tele T-51. It has the seymour duncan pickups. Broadcaster in bridge and 54 vintage in neck. I'd like to add a middle pickup, not because I ever use the in between "quack" settings, but because I just seem to find the middle pickup by itself on my strat the most useful.
Any suggestions for a good pickup in the middle that would "match" the other two (balanced/tone etc) ?
Also I guess I'd have to work on some custom wiring, b/o I like to keep all of ther standard tele combinations available and don't care for the in between settings really.
Would a 5-way switch exist/work that can do : bridge - bridge/middle - middle - bridge/neck - neck ?

Thanks guys !

Arjan

[LarryR]

Hi Arjan,
I also love the middle strat pickup by itself....I had a Fender CS Fat 50 middle pick up for quite awhile in my Frakentele/Verocaster....it has since gone to Scotland in his tele(maybe he can give his opinion on it )..I like the Fat 50 in it had a big woody kinda flavor to it as if it represented the guitar body very well and I think it would mate well with the pickups you have.
On the switch, in order to get the bridge neck combo, I had to use a 5 way Super switch which required taking a little wood out of the control cavity...there are other ways to do this I believe like with a pushpull pot...which is listed on the Seymour Duncan site....

[hollander]

Would blending be a possibility of the middle pickup. I am thinking to be able to switch or turn a knob at 100% so it would work by itself. Then there would also be the possibility of blending it in with the other standard pickup settings. Only thing is I don't "like" the quack, so maybe not a reverse wound pickup. Or does this then present a whole different set of "Problems" (extreme hum, major volume changes etc.) Should middle pickup be working in series or parallel with the other 2 pickups?

[Red Planet]

I would also like to do this and am curious about different ways to do it.

Right now I think the best way is to add either a Push Pull Pot or a Mini Toggle Switch. I think I'd like just a Mini Togle that engages the Middle Pickup regardless of where the 3 Way Switch is. I wonder what it sounds like with all 3 pickups?


I guess there are many other options to do with Switching using Series or Parellel, Out of Phase, and Pickup Combinations.

Right now due to the Hum I'm getting I think I want to change all my pickups out to the New Noisless Pickups. Throw a Noisless Strat in the middle and a Mini Toggle in there. I think with the Gain Structure I use for Solos that would be a good bet.

Lets here it from some folks who have tried any of this Inquiring Minds want to know.

[Deaf Eddie]

The plain ol' two-pole five-throw Strat switch will ALMOST do this one for you. As we're talkin' Tele, we don't have to use one of the poles to switch the tone controls in and out.

It's easy!

Here's a SIMPLE DRAWING of a switch wired to get ALMOST what you asked for (misses the TELE bridge & neck combo):

1 - neck
2 - neck and middle
3 - middle
4 - bridge and middle
5 - bridge

D'oh! I've re-invented the STRAT!
That kind of stuff happens when I miss my medication...



BUT! You'll get ALL your "Tele" combos with this next option, by changing the position of the neck and mid pup leads - you still have the mid pup alone, but ya get NECK and middle, instead of BRIDGE and middle:



This would give you
1 - middle
2 - neck and middle
3 - neck *
4 - bridge and neck*
5 - bridge *

So, the 3* through 5* spots are same ol' Tele tones, yer new tones are neck & middle and middle alone...

Of course, this is all theoretical, I ain't done this one myself - but I have had some success with other wiring mods...

The SuperSwitch mentioned in previous posts can positively give you any five pup combos you like, but where's the challange with that?!? I'd be happy to do another simple drawing for you...

[LarryR]

The thing is that he said he wanted the bridge -neck combo. What other way is there to do this without a super switch?
I suppose you could do 2 volumes(no tone control), one for the middle and one for the neck -bridge, then flip to the middle position and roll the volume off on the bridge and neck pickups......wasn't the Mason tele wired like this so that the middle pickup becomes your tone flavoring in all positions? allowing you to blend in the middle pickup anywhere....

[Deaf Eddie]

In my post above, the second drawing DOES give you the standard Tele bridge and neck combo... but not the bridge and mid he asked for.

So ya say, no tone control? OK, swap the neck pup off the three-way for the mid pup, then the three-way gives you bridge, bridge & mid, or mid; then put the neck pup on the ex-tone pot wired as a blender... but, oops - no "neck only" tone. OK, so wire the old volume like a blender, too; so you could turn it down without killing the output. That way, I think you got all the Tele tones, all the Strat tones, and all three pups at once... but no "master" volume.

ONCE MORE:
OK, he sez he don't want no quack, but likes the mid alone...

Another goofy way to do this would be to leave the Tele pup selector stock, but throw in a push/pull under the vol or tone to switch between the output of the 3-way and the mid pup's hot lead, with the common routed to the vol pot. Then you just get four combos: the stock Tele three (P/P in) or the mid pup alone (P/P out)...

Gee, the SuperSwitch makes this SO MUCH easier!

[tellysax]

Three pickups on at the same time will give a "sweet" darker tone that is accentuated when you turn the mid and treble knobs on your amp to ten. I have done a lot of 3 pU teles, even 4HB teles and a 5 Pu strat , and I would field all questions of interest. Thanks

Originally Posted by Red Planet

I would also like to do this and am curious about different ways to do it.

Right now I think the best way is to add either a Push Pull Pot or a Mini Toggle Switch. I think I'd like just a Mini Togle that engages the Middle Pickup regardless of where the 3 Way Switch is. I wonder what it sounds like with all 3 pickups?


I guess there are many other options to do with Switching using Series or Parellel, Out of Phase, and Pickup Combinations.

Right now due to the Hum I'm getting I think I want to change all my pickups out to the New Noisless Pickups. Throw a Noisless Strat in the middle and a Mini Toggle in there. I think with the Gain Structure I use for Solos that would be a good bet.

Lets here it from some folks who have tried any of this Inquiring Minds want to know.

[kickz28]

The easiest way to do it would be to get a 5-way Strat switch and a push pull pot or mini toggle switch. Thats how I wired my strat:

Switch off (standard strat configuration):
1-bridge
2-bridge + middle
3-middle
4-middle + neck
5-neck

Switch on:
1-bridge + neck
2-bridge + middle + neck
3-middle
4-middle + neck \
5-neck + middle /

The easy way to think of this (and thats actually what it is) is to remember that the switch adds the neck pickup to the configuration no matter what the position is on the 5-way.

[Red Planet]

That is it. A five way and a mini gets all of em. I wasnt thinking with my way you dont get the middle by itself. With this way you get all the combinations.

Although all these combinations might not be desireable. Anyone got any info on the general tone of each combonation? If there is a bad combo the other way the one Eddie mentioned might be best.

Or you could do the Old Tim Bowen method od 3 mini toggles. Giving an on off for each pickup.

[kickz28]

Well it only adds two positions: Neck + Bridge and Neck + Middle + Bridge.
The neck+bridge is desirable, thats the whole reason I did this mod to my strat.

I personally never use the n+m+b position, it does not sound that great, but I see no reason to go threw more trouble rewiring the whole guitar just because you don't want to add this particular position. Its there, who cares? Just don't use it. Adding this switch is very easy, you only need to add 1 wire from the 5-way to the toggle (or push/pull pot) and one wire from the toggle back to the 5-way. Takes 20 minutes (inlcluding taking off all the strings, removing the pickguard, adding the switch, drilling the hole in the pickguard (if you use a toggle) and putting everything back together. On a Tele I would probably get a push/pull pot instead of a toggle just because I can't really think of a nice place to add a toggle switch.

So all in all, all positions are desirable, except maybe n+m+b for me. But its there and it dosen't botter me.

My experience is on a strat though, never did it to a Tele.

[hollander]

Wow, this is incredible. All of a sudden the ideas start pouring in ! Yesterday I found Deaf Eddies website and thought I saw a cool way of switching, but the switching with the standard strat switch is so simple, yet ingenious. Wow !
When eddie is talking about the blending it is getting a little too fuzzy for me. A sketch would be helpful, I guess? Are there any of what is being discussed here?
The other thing I am thinking of is to simply add a blending pot on the middle pickup before running the wire to the switch, this way when the knob is fully open the switch works like usual, but you also have the option of blending the middle pickup with the others to color the tone. Does this make sense? would it work?
Also when adding the middle pickup, should it be a reverse wound or standard. Again, I am not looking for the "quack" out of phase sound (although when it's there it probably won't hurt, I probably just won't use it much, if any at all), but I am looking for best way of blending of middle pickup with the others.
Thanks guys, this thread is really helpful, I hope for other too :D

[Deaf Eddie]

The other thing I am thinking of is to simply add a blending pot on the middle pickup before running the wire to the switch, this way when the knob is fully open the switch works like usual, but you also have the option of blending the middle pickup with the others to color the tone. Does this make sense? would it work?

You bet... but you don't get the MID ONLY tone you were looking for... That's why I suggested rewiring the old volume as a blender, too, so you could get the normal Tele-combos, the Tele-combos with the mid blended, or the mid only with the Tele-combos turned off. But, as there are two volumes, you lose the tone control, and there's no MASTER volume - the mid and Tele-combos volumes are independent.

When eddie is talking about the blending it is getting a little too fuzzy for me.

OK, in guitar-speak, a blend control is typically a volume control wired between a single pickup and the output of that allows you to "blend" that pickup in with whatever else you have going from the pup selector. Another characteristic of a blend pot is that when you turn it all the way OFF, it does NOT affect the output of the rest of the signal - like you may have experienced on a typical Gibson, where turning one pup all the way off (volume) will turn the whole axe off... It is an INDEPEDENT volume control, affecting only the pup it's wired to.

Also when adding the middle pickup, should it be a reverse wound or standard. Again, I am not looking for the "quack" out of phase sound (although when it's there it probably won't hurt, I probably just won't use it much, if any at all), but I am looking for best way of blending of middle pickup with the others.

The mid pup should be IN PHASE with your other pups - the Strat quack is NOT out of phase - that's an "urban myth." The quack is just two single coils, close together, parallel. If your Tele set has one RW/RP pup (and I bet it does), then it makes no difference which way the mid pup is wound - when played IN PHASE with one of your pups it'll give you hum-cancelling, with the other it won't. Not a SONIC factor, as long as the PHASE is correct. And if it's out of phase, it's a simple (in THIS case) as reversing the leads. No worries. BTW, Strats typically have the middle pup RW/RP, and the bridge and neck are the same.

[hollander]

What if the blender for middle pickup is installed while also using your 5-way switch. That should give you option to blend plus option of using middle pup by itself?

Yes, I think we're getting close now !

[Deaf Eddie]

... because, to get the mid pup alone, you have to make the other stuff "go away..." A blender on the mid pup lets you ADD the mid to the stuff from the 5-way, but doesn't give you any way to cut out the stuff on the 5-way to JUST get the mid. So, to fix that we rewire the master volume AS IF it were a blender - to turn down the 5-way so you CAN just hear the mid. But then, there's no master volume, there are two independent volumes: one for the 5-way's output, and one for the mid pup. It's kind of a long way to go to get what you wanted.

Probably the least complicated, cheapest and most normal way to get what you want , ie: the Tele combos AND the mid alone (even though it adds a few "extra" tones), would be to just use a regular ol' Strat 5-way and wire it up like a Strat, and ALSO put the neck pup on a blender so you could add it to whatever you get off the 5-way. It was mentioned above... That's the most common, tried-and-true way to get all seven possible parallel combos out of three pups:

1 - neck
2 - neck and mid
3 - mid
4 - mid and bridge
5 - bridge

(6) bridge with neck pup blended in
(7) bridge and mid with neck pup blended in

The Strat switch will mount right up, no clearance problems in the control cavity, and anybody who can work a Strat will know how to get the tone/combos they want. You still have a master volume, but you lose the tone control.

A variation of that idea was mentioned in one of the above posts by another Strat player, and that would be to use a PUSH/PULL switch to add the neck pup, instead of blending it - that way you get to keep a tone control. Or, use a toggle switch to do the same thing...

The Five-Tone-Tele scheme that I champion for the SuperSwitch and TWO pups, to which I believe you are referencing, gives you some series and series/out of phase options from the Tele neck and bridge which are very interesting tones, but strays from your original request to get a mid pup involved.

I'll say it again, if you go with the SuperSwitch, you can get JUST the five combos you originally wanted, in the order you wanted, no blender pot, so you keep the master volume and tone of the traditional Tele scheme.
You might need to trim a bit off one side of the control cavity to accomidate the SuperSwitch, but it's not that big a deal.

So, as you can see, there are about a dozen different ways to do this... Can you choose wisely, Grasshopper?

[Deaf Eddie]

FWIW, The "all three" (n+m+b) mentioned with scorn above is actually my FAVORITE Strat tone... My "least used" tone is actually the mid pup alone that you want!!!

Everybody likes something different - and I been known to wire 'em up about as different as they can get!

What a country!

[hollander]

thanks guys, this is really helpful stuff. The choice is still not that easy, but I definitely ahve more of an idea of what is possible. I'd like to have as many options as possible, but not if they are not useful.
I have some thinking and tinkering to do. Thanks !

[Scotland]

As Larry said, I got the pickup from him specifically to install as a middle pickup. To tell the truth, I'm " as happy as Larry " was with it.
He describes it (above) very well. My bridge is a Broadcaster and my neck is Fender 52RI.

[LarryR]

Just as an addition to say I use the Fat 50's in another guitar, I just wanted my tele to be back to 2 pickups again, I did not replace it with anything else.....Of what I have been able to compare it with, the middle Fat 50 is still my fav middle pickup over Duncan SSL-1's, a Fralin middle(not sure which one it was) , a Texas Special, a Kinman AVN-62, whatever comes in the CS Relic 62's, and stock 57/62's....the Fat 50 still has that sound I want to hear when on that pickup alone and it plays nicely with other p/u's....
I am gonna try it mixed with a Stelly at some point in a Strat config just for kicks....

[hollander]

Thanks guys. We really got into the switchemaroo stuff, but yes I also was looking for which pup to use. Is the Fat50 still available somewhere? Are they still made?
Any other suggestions ?
You know what, the simple idea of having the middle pup and other pickups controlled by seperate volume might be very useful too. I love the simplicity of it and (!) the blending options. I guess you could even use concentric knobs with volume and tone combined, this way you wouldn't loose any of your original specs ?

[LarryR]

Angela.com......they have them in sets and I think they use to sell them in singles which they may still do if you ask....about $45 or so each....

[hollander]

Ok I found them at different locations. Usually sold as set of 3. I also foundout about cs 54 and a lot of people seem to really like them a lot. Not as fat but more chimey ? Anybody know anyhting about these ? I think it is going to be between these 2 pups.

[Red Planet]

Hey guys I know this is an old thread now but I'm just getting staterd. I got my middle Pickup in Yesterday. I didnt have a mini toggle or a push pull so I just stuck it in there wuth a 5 way. I wired it like you said Eddie. Works great.

I dont care for the neck/middle sound. Is there some way to get the folowing with just the five way?

Neck
Middle
Bridge
Bridge/Neck
Bridge/Middle