Wiring a humbucker w/4-way switch

[thaus]

Hello:

I have a telecaster with a Lollar Imperial humbucker in the neck and I wish to wire it to a 4-way switch. Would like to get it working like this:

1 Bridge pup
2 Bridge & Neck
3 Neck (coil tapped)
4 Neck

Is this possible and can anyone point me in the direction of any schematic?

Thanks in advance

[Deaf Eddie]

IF your humbucker is four-conductor, that's an easy one:



Here's another good one:



The 4-way switch is pretty easy to wire to get just about anything you want out of your two pups, the hard part is that you have to pick just FOUR of the possible combos.

[Wardpike]

good job, Eddie!!

[thaus]

Thanks Eddie! Should have just asked the wiring guru in the first place!!

[Groovin_Joe]

Eddie...

You seem good with blade switches? what about if I have just one humbucker pickup and I want a 3-way blade switch with Series/split/Parallel? Could you draw up one of those? It is a seymour duncan. The wire colours are here http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...ic=color_codes

[Deaf Eddie]

Don't forget that the bare wire in the lead bundle (not shown) goes to ground on the back of the volume pot.

[Groovin_Joe]

Thank you Eddie!!!
Just one more question. In split mode what coil is working and which is not? Technically this is for a bass guitar with a musicman humbucker in it. I know you are a tele forum but it seemed that you got to the point quicker than any bass forum that I found. I play guitar too and do own a tele. You guys are great!

Thank you again.

Adam

[Groovin_Joe]

also... does it make a difference if the cap. is soldered to the back of the tone pot? As I have that already done.

[Deaf Eddie]

As indicated in the drawing, this scheme will leave the screw coil active, the slug coil gets shunted (off).

If you want to change that, it just takes a quick change of TWO of the lugs on the 3-way: clip the pink jumper between the two lugs (lower half), and add a jumper from the green lead to the open lug (upper half). The hot pink jumper that crosses the switch (upper to lower) is the series connection, and that's unchanged.

It doesn't matter where the cap's grounded leg hits ground, as long as it hits ground. The back of either pot is fine. This drawing just shows it the way Leo did it - he uses the grounded leg of the cap to connect the grounded lug of the volume pot to its case. If it's all grounded, it's all good.

[Groovin_Joe]

Thank you Eddie. This bassist thanks you! You saved me tonnes of time. And I am assuming that the main ground from the bridge goes to the back of the volume pot as well? or the tone pot? shouldn't matter as they all lead to ground.

[doug]

Regarding the two 4-way switch diagrams, I assume they'll work fine for two humbuckers as well (that is, a humbucker in both the neck and bridge). Given the way the two diagrams are wired, I assume the inner coils would be made active. Is that correct?

[Deaf Eddie]

Regarding the two 4-way switch diagrams, I assume they'll work fine for two humbuckers as well (that is, a humbucker in both the neck and bridge). Given the way the two diagrams are wired, I assume the inner coils would be made active. Is that correct?

Are you asking if BOTH pups can be coil-shunt by the 4-way? Then, yes.
Are the drawings here correct for that? NO. They would have to be a bit different.

It's not quite clear to me what you want to achieve. Tell us what you want and we'll see what we can do for you...

[newtwanger]

I'm confused, maybe it's the terms being used "coil tapped" (which I think is incorrect for what's happening here), "coil-shunt", and "coil-split".

Could someone clarify this and also explain what happens when you have a switch that takes the red&white and runs it to ground (I'm sure I've seen that too.)

thanks

[doug]

Sorry about the confusion. In essence, I was asking

o whether your diagrams would work, as is, if the bridge was also a humbucker. For example, your first diagram would result in

1. Full neck humbucker
2. Neck humbucker shunt
3. Full neck humbucker and full bridge humbucker (in parallel)
4. Full bridge humbucker.

If so, I'd like this arrangement: I don't really care for the additional bridge humbucker coil shunt a 5-way super switch would offer.

o I wanted to confirm which of the coils would be active as a result of the coil shunt per you first diagram.

[doug]

...Actually, would the 4-way switch be capable of this arrangement (swapping the first two):

1. Neck humbucker shunt
2. Full neck humbucker
3. Full neck humbucker and full bridge humbucker (in parallel)
4. Full bridge humbucker.

Thanks!

[Deaf Eddie]

Here's my take on it: Shunt? Split? Tapped?

So, I would consider these schemes to be coil-SHUNTS. We're not disconnection one of the coils (SPLIT), and we're not TAPPING into the windings of a coil.

As for the how and why of coil-shunts, you've heard the old rule that electricity ALWAYS follows the path of least resistance? OK, then!

When you connect the SERIES PAIR junction (here, where the red and white are soldered together) to ground, you are making a "short-cut" path for the signal, so that instead of traveling through BOTH coils, one after the other (aka "series"), it can bypass one of the coils and go straight to ground - SHUNTING one of the coils out of the circuit. Basically, ONE of the coils then has both its hot AND ground both connected to ground - so, the juice don't run through it, it takes the short-cut bypassing it, and you only "hear" the other coil. With Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio pickups, shunting to ground typically leaves the slug-polepiece-coil active, and shunts the adjustable-screw-polepiece-coil.

You could also "SHUNT to HOT" to play the OTHER coil (the screw coil), instead. When I do coil-shunts on a pair of humbuckers, I try to shunt one to ground and one to hot, so that it leaves a noise-canceling pair when I play them together.

[Deaf Eddie]

I was asking.... whether your diagrams would work, as is, if the bridge was also a humbucker.

Yes, the diagrams and switch don't care what kind of a bridge pickup you have. The switch only "sees" the bridge pup's hot lead, and the switch will work to get the combos listed just as you predict, with the coil-shunt only affecting the neck humbucker.

... which of the coils would be active as a result of the coil shunt...

The way I have them drawn up, they shunt to hot, leaving the screw-coil active in a Seyour Duncan humbucker. Since I haven't found a way to shunt them to ground using a 4-way, you could simply rotate the pickup on the guitar to make the screw coil either the "inside" or "outside" coil.

Or, you could get a bit goofy with the leads to change which coil is left on. I'm just using the simple S-D installation stuff as an example.

A thought: S-D pups are out of phase with Fender pups, so with a Fender bridge pup, you would have to wire the S-D neck humbucker with GREEN as its hot (to the 4-way) and BLACK as the ground. In that case, with this scheme you'd get the slug coil left active.

Remember, different pickup manufactures use different color codes and different construction, so don't just use the colors I used UNLESS you have a S-D humbucker. For another brand of pups, the end result of shunting to hot may be that the slug coil left active. It varies, brand to brand.

would the 4-way switch be capable of this arrangement (swapping the first two):

1. Neck humbucker shunt
2. Full neck humbucker
3. Full neck humbucker and full bridge humbucker (in parallel)
4. Full bridge humbucker.

Yes:

[doug]

Thanks! I really appreciate your taking the time to respond.

[RunawayJim]

Wow! This really is a great forum. So much good info! I'm in the process of building a Tele. It's the first Tele I've had, and I'm really looking forward to putting it all together - just waiting on lacquer to dry right now =)

Curious question on this topic though. I've got a SD "Little '59" HB for my bridge pickup and a SD Hot Tele single coil for the neck. I'm no wiring guru by any means...

From what I've read, most people will wire the 4-way so that they have bridge, both (series), both (parallel), and neck. Apparently this is the most common, but this thread got me thinking. What if I wanted to do bridge, bridge (coil-shunted), both, then neck? Would I rather have the pickups in series or parallel and what exactly is the difference? Also, not to sound stupid, but coil-shunted would mean that my bridge would function as a single-coil, right? And which coil would I use? Also, what would the wiring scheme be for those?

Thanks in advance for the help!!!

-Mark

[Deaf Eddie]

You can wire the 4-way to give you your bridge pup in coil-shunt, although many players find that coil-shunting the single coil-sized humbuckers just gives them a drop in gain, rather than a new and different timbre as it does with full-sized humbuckers. So, your bridge pup would be working as a single-coil pickup, but it wouldn't SOUND like a Tele single-coil bridge pickup - just a weaker version of its humbucker tone. It IS easy to wire it up that way, if I haven't scared you out of it.

The stock modern Tele middle throw is the pups played in parallel. This is a sweet, "clucky" tone.

The 4-way mod (wired as Fender intended) adds a combos playing the pups in series, which is a fatter and slightly louder tone, reminiscent of a humbucker.

[RunawayJim]

...So it kinda sounds like I really wouldn't be happy with wiring it that way. I think I'll wire it the way Fender intended; I think that would be the way to go for now. I can always change it later, eh?

One more crazy question and I'll not bother you any more. I have the wiring schematic for wiring the pups that way, but I've seen somewhere that you need to get rid of one of the wires coming from the bucker to wire it this way? Does that ring a bell? Thanks Eddie!

[newtwanger]

Originally Posted by Deaf Eddie

....although many players find that coil-shunting the single coil-sized humbuckers just gives them a drop in gain, rather than a new and different timbre as it does with full-sized humbuckers. So, your bridge pup would be working as a single-coil pickup, but it wouldn't SOUND like a Tele single-coil bridge pickup - just a weaker version of its humbucker tone.

Just been there, just done that (with my li'l '59). Dr. Deaf Eddie is absolutely correct; all it does is drop the gain, nothing like doing the same on a full sized 'bucker.

[Deaf Eddie]

... but I've seen somewhere that you need to get rid of one of the wires coming from the bucker to wire it this way?

Not exactly. Four conductor humbucker give you all the leads for both coils. To play them as a humbucker (coils in series), the base coil's negative lead goes to ground, the second coil's positive lead goes to hot, and you simply solder the other two leads (commonly called the series pair) together, and tape them off so that they don't touch anything else in the control cavity. The bare wire in the bundle - actually a FIFTH conductor - is the ground/shield drain, and should ALWAYS be soldered to the guitar's ground, regardless of what other phasing or trick wiring schemes you have.

With all Seymour Duncan humbuckers, they indicate that the green is the ground, the black is the hot, and the red and white leads are the series pair.

So, solder your red and white leads together and tape them up, use green as the ground and black as the hot. Since you have used S-D pups in the bridge and neck, you shouldn't have the phasing problem that players have when they mix and match different brands of pickups.

[RunawayJim]

SO, another quick question. Do I want to use 500K pots for this schematic?

[Deaf Eddie]

There's no right or wrong, only what sounds good to YOU.

IF you want the axe voiced brighter, use 500k pots.

If that's too harsh or bright, try 250K pots.

[PhatBoy]

WOW!!
Is this a great forum or what???
I'm amazed at the info here by Dr. D.E.
I'm not even wanting to do any changes and it still gets me going!!!

PB

[kafn8d]

What are the options for wiring a P-90 in the neck and single coil in the bridge with a 4-way switch?

[Deaf Eddie]

The options are the same, but there are possible issues with a P90. If it's a three-conductor P90, no issues. If it has a vintage style braided shield lead, big issues.

The braided shield in those pickups is not only the ground conductor, it's the coil's negative conductor. Any series or phase options would put that braided shield - and all the metal parts of the pickup, including baseplate, magnet, mounting screws - on the hot side of the circuit. Since that pup has a PLASTIC cover, that at least doesn't add to the problem.

A common band-aide is to run the length of the lead through some heat shrink tubing to insulate it from touching anything in the control cavity. However, with all that metal on the wrong side of the circuit, this mod may be susceptible to unwanted noise and hum.

[RunawayJim]

Hey Eddie, got a problem! Got evrything wired up per this diagram here: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...matic=tele_4ws

Now of course the black and white wire references in this diagram don't match up to SD's wiring color scheme, so I did account for that per your instructions above.

Now, here's the issue - positions 1&2 sound exactly the same, and positions 3&4 also sound the same. It's like there is NO position where both pickups are used together. Any ideas???

Mark

[RunawayJim]

Ummm... just realized I haven't ground the neck pickup's cover. Could that be the culprit?

[Deaf Eddie]

Now, here's the issue - positions 1&2 sound exactly the same, and positions 3&4 also sound the same.

If the two tones you hear are the neck only twice, and the bridge+neck parallel twice - no bridge only, and no series - it's a mistake I see all the time, usually caused by not isolating the neck pup coil's negative lead from ground. The neck pup's coil must NOT be soldered to ground, must not have continuity with ground, and ONLY have a path to ground through the 4-way switch.

Did you do the unground/reground the cover mod?

[RunawayJim]

I did not do that mod yet. Will try it when I get home this evening. Would this solve the problem?

[RunawayJim]

Hey thanks for the help! Got it fixed and works just GREAT! I've got just one more problem you may be able to help me with. Does anyone know why my high "E" string would have a volume drop? In other words, I strike the string, then after about a half a second, the volume drops dramatically. I've checked it unplugged, and it's just fine, so it's not a physical problem, seems to be an electronic problem. I'm stumped, just don't know why this would be...

[Deaf Eddie]

One pup, or both?
How's the string alignment over the pole pieces (if applicable)?
If it's the neck pup, try turning it 180 degrees and remounting it (if there's room).
Can you lower the pup and raise the high E pole piece?

The last time I had that issue, the only cure I found was different pickups...

BUT, you shouldn't have that issue with a solid name-brand like Seymour Duncan.
I'd DEFINITELY e-mail them, describe the problem as completely as possible, tell them exactly which pickups you have, and see what they say.

[xStonr]

I tried this diagram and I get humbucker in all positions. Could there be something wrong with my switch? It did work previously.

[Deaf Eddie]

Time to get out the multimeter. We need more info to help you troubleshoot, and photos are good, too...

[xStonr]

I think my switch is shot so I'm just going to replace it.

[eagleeye]

I am new to the modifying tele forum and would like some help for my Squire Vintage Model HS Telecaster with maple neck. I just purchased a lil 59 tele bridge humbucker and a sh59 four conductor neck humbucker to replace the pups. I also have a new Oak four way tele switch and two push pull audio 500k pots along with different value OD caps. I would like to know how to wire these up for the most versatile sound options and also the best sounds. Does anyone have an idea for me to try? I would like to get single coil sounds with the push pull pots and then whatever else the four way will provide. Has anyone done this and if so what do I need to do? I also have a Seymour Duncan Phat cat that I might put in the neck if it is possible?

[Deaf Eddie]

"Most versatile" and "best sounds", huh? Tall order and great expectations!

As indicated above, single-coil sized humbuckers (like your Lil 59er) are really good at negating noise, but they're not usually a good choice for coil-shunting to get a single-coil tone.

Played as a humbucker, the S-D Tele Lil 59er has plenty of bite, but running it in coil-shunt doesn't really do much for me. So, let's just assume that your bridge pup isn't gonna give you the kind of "Tele-ness" that you might have hope for from coil-shunting.

Now, I've been playing around with doing an exaggerated adjustment to the pole pieces of the little S-D pups, and that seems to help the coil-shunt tone - but I'm not promoting that as the cure-all solution just yet.

Your neck pup, a full sized humbucker, IS a good candidate for a single-coil tone.

In any case, ON PAPER, I think your best options would be to use one p/p to coil-shunt both pickups; the other p/p to coils-parallel the bridge pup, and then wire the 4-way just as you would with any Tele. It's gonna have a couple of suckie tones, IMHO, but some cool ones, too. I'll draw it up...

[Deaf Eddie]

Here ya go:



Wired like this, it's the standard 4-way scheme:

1 - bridge
2 - bridge + neck
3 - neck
4 - both pups in series

Throw #4 is gonna be muddy...

PULL just the tone pot and you have the same combos, but the bridge pup's coils will be playing parallel. This might clean up throw #4 some, but may make throw #1 sound weak.

PULL just the volume pot, and you have the same combos, but with both pups in coil-shunt. Throw #4 will clean up nicely, but throw #1 is gonna be even weaker.

PULL BOTH POTS and you'll have the neck pup in coil-shunt and the bridge pup in coils-parallel. Everything should sound fine, with the exception of the weak tone in throw #1 as above.

There are some adjustments you can make to the pickup's pole pieces that can fine tune this a bit, if you decide to try it. Let us know!