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eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 12:28 PM

I will do that. I do have the neck green to common on the switch and the bare to the volume pot ground. The green from the neck pup is on the bottom left and the black from the bridge is on the top right according to the diagram. The red/white of the neck is on the middle left lug of the push pull pot with the black on the front left lug of the push pull. The neck green is to the bottom left common with bare to the back of the volume pot. I will do the meter test now and get back to you! THANKS for the HELP!

eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 01:08 PM

Here is a description of the switch wiring.
Left side - #1 post open
#2 volume pot ground and bridged to #3
#3 bridged to #2
#4 bridged to bottom right #5 post
#5 (common) to Neck green wire.

Right side - #1 (common) to black bridge wire
#2 Red to volume pot front left post which is jumped to top front left of push pull pot and on to the black neck wire
#3 Bridged to #2 only
#4 open
#5 bridged to #4 on left side

I think my bridge on the right side needs to be moved down one post to #3 #4? as when I am in the #1 position both pups are active? Any thoughts?

eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 01:54 PM

I posted pics in the forum somewhere? "Tele wiring needs help" or eagleeye? Anyway I stated the switch wiring above so hopefully it is bridged wrong? It's gotta be! But hey, I am always wrong so I do as I am told at least with this...........

eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 02:38 PM

Eddie; Does it matter where I wire to the bridges? I just noticed I had both the volume ground to the upper bridge on the left side and the red volume pot jumper to the upper right bridge. Boy am I screwed up! I will switch those now and see what I get. Hopefully it will work??????? Everything else looks good!

Deaf Eddie · July 1st, 2009, 02:55 PM

Your wiring text sounds correct.

Quote:

Eddie; Does it matter where I wire to the bridges? I just noticed I had both the volume ground to the upper bridge on the left side and the red volume pot jumper to the upper right bridge.

I have no idea what you are saying. Please restate that with a more acurate description.

eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 03:07 PM

I did it but still have both the bridge and neck in #1 position. I have neck only in #3 position. I have both in #4 and so on. Please look at the switch diagram and tell me if it is right? Are you sure this is correct? Is there any way you can draw up another and give it to me?

eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 03:07 PM

I wired it all as per diagram and I get what I have above!

eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 03:10 PM

I meant does it matter on which post I wire to when wiring to the bridges on the switch? I wired exactly as you stated so that is irrelevant now. I still don't get the bridge alone in #1 position.

Deaf Eddie · July 1st, 2009, 04:17 PM

The drawing is correct.

Quote:

I meant does it matter on which post I wire to when wiring to the bridges on the switch?

Ah! I now take that to mean, the JUMPERS BETWEEN THE LUGS. No, if two lugs are jumpered together it does not matter which lug you connect the lead to.

NEXT:

As I said a couple of posts up, IF you don't get the bridge-alone in throw #1, then your neck pickup has another path to ground.

Perhaps you nicked the neck pup's green lead when you stripped back the wires, and it is shorting out on the bare wire/shielding in the lead bundle.

Check for continuity as described in the above post between the green lead and the guitar's ground. NEXT, unsolder the neck pup's BARE wire lead, and with the green lead still disconnected, check to see if it has continuity with the green lead - it should NOT.

FWIW, the neck-always-on problem is the most common error novices make with this mod - they think the neck pup needs to be grounded, and it does NOT. It ONLY grounds through the 4-way. It seems apparent to me that your neck pup is grounding through something BESIDES the 4-way, and that's why it's always on. Fix that, and it should work.

popeye · July 1st, 2009, 09:43 PM

Why not install an Oaks Grigsby 5 way switch and wire yourself up a FAT Tele? You will get 5 distinct sounds and you will love it. The wiring schematic is on Fender's website. Go for it !!

eagleeye · July 1st, 2009, 11:36 PM

How do I do that? I would love it! do I need the 5 way 4 pole or just the 5 way? What do you mean FAT Tele?

Deaf Eddie · July 2nd, 2009, 12:27 AM

That's a pretty good suggestion, IF you can't get the 4-way scheme to work for you...

It takes the "half-superswitch" to make it work. Here's the Fender drawing...

eagleeye · July 2nd, 2009, 11:36 AM

I still have a problem! When I hook up the jumper wire from the volume front left post looking from the front and then to the black on the top front I get the neck active all the time along with the bridge pup. With the green disconnected on the neck I get nothing so the ground seems to be fine. Can someone check the diagram above and tell me if it is correct? I have wired this twice and checked it but something is wrong somewhere. It is not on my side this time. I just wish it would work...............

eagleeye · July 2nd, 2009, 11:41 AM

OK you say the neck only grounds through the common and I hooked the bare neck wire to the back of the volume pot as you stated earlier. Should I remove the bare from the volume pot and move it to the common along with the green? If so that is where it is! It is all making sense if that should be to the common?

eagleeye · July 2nd, 2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Eddie

Don't forget, the bare wires in the lead bundles for each pickup go to ground - I don't show that in the drawing.

For the bridge pup, it goes with its green lead to the back of the the tone pot; for the neck pup, it goes straight to ground on the back of the volume pot (the neck pup green lead does NOT go to ground).

Is this a mistype? Do I need to put the bare to the common with the green for the neck pup?

Deaf Eddie · July 2nd, 2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Should I remove the bare from the volume pot and move it to the common along with the green?

Absolutely NOT. The bare wire is NOT part of the switching scheme, it's just the ground/shield conductor for the pickup's baseplate and all metal parts. It should NEVER be switched in ANY scheme.

The neck's green lead and bare lead should NOT TOUCH ANYWHERE for this scheme to work correctly. AND, it seems to me that's what your problem is - the green lead has continuity with the bare lead.

If are certain you have the switch wired correctly, but the neck pup plays in all positions, then the logical assumption is that something is wrong with your neck pickup's leads.

TRY THIS: connect the green lead back to the 4-way's common lug as it should be, but disconnect the BARE lead from ground, and make sure that it doesn't accidentally touch anything. Now see if the neck pup still plays in all positions. My guess is that it will NOT, and the switching scheme will work correctly.

DO THE METER TEST as described in the above posts.

I couldn't find the thread where you have posted a pic of your work.

AS you seem to doubt the veracity of my drawing, here's the original Fender drawing for the 4-way scheme, see if you can use this to find an error in mine:

eagleeye · July 2nd, 2009, 01:25 PM

I just re-wired and get the same thing! I guess I will just have to take it in. Was hoping it would be right but it is not. I tried everything I can think of but still have the NECK active all the time! I checked for continuity and there is none when disconnected so it is something in the wiring. I put the bare on the common with same results and then put back on the pot. Didn't change a thing! I tried switching the green and black on the commons and it did nothing to help. Hopefully my tech can get it right? I wonder if the switch could be the problem but I doubt it? It all works but the NECK is the problem. It coil shunts fine though and the bridge works. Just wish I could get it myself. That would save me some $$$ and also help me to learn. I included pics for you to see. Don't laugh too hard and tell me what I can do to do better please. Hopefully you can see the switch and pot wiring.

Deaf Eddie · July 2nd, 2009, 03:41 PM

Well, that's just lovely.

The FIRST thing I see is IT APPEARS that you have your pots and pup selector switch reversed - pots towards the neck, selector towards the bridge. Is that the case? If you said something about that, I must have missed it or misunderstood you.

If that's how you want the controls laid out, what it means is that you have the 4-way rotated 180 degrees wrong - so when the lever points bridge-way, you the get the neck pup, and vice-verse.

And also, you have the tone pot BETWEEN the volume and the 4-way. That doesn't really change anything, but it sure makes your layout NOT match any of the drawings that I created for you. No wonder you're having novice issues. Bad input = bad output.

If you like that layout, and have enough leads, you should rotate JUST the 4-way so that the common lug with the bridge pup's hot is closest to the tone pot.

If you DON'T have enough leads, do not despair, here's a drawing with the corrected 4-way layout and the volume/tone layout to match the picture you posted of your control plate:

Although NONE of this should affect the issue of the neck being on all the time, you never can tell... Flip the switch OR rewire it as shown, and see if that resolves anything.

eagleeye · July 2nd, 2009, 05:01 PM

No I did not. I only know that I KNOW NOTHING! I finally gave up and took it in to let the pros do it. LOL They have done more bad than good to my other guitars which is why I decided to give it a try. Now I guess they can't do worse than me so I give up! Honestly I wish the first drawing would have been correct. Anyway I see now what you are saying about the pots but that is what I had to go with originally. I did have the green from the switch going to the volume as that is what the drawing showed though I don't see that as a problem but just caused confusion. The switch was it and I see that it all is different now. Hmmmm, I wish I got this drawing originally but that is the way it goes. Maybe next time! I have learned alot about what NOT TO DO! I would bet this was all I needed but because I did not know I was only following your diagram. I can say this one looks like it would work but the tech will get my $$$$ and save me any more frustration and time! I know you tried to help this rookie but he just couldn't do it as this is the first time I did anything with the switches or pots. I think I will leave the electrical to someone else!

Deaf Eddie · July 2nd, 2009, 05:36 PM

Well, there is a learning curve involved here, and you not only tried one of the more difficult mods (Fender 4-way scheme) to wrap your head around, but complicated it by adding a push/pull or two.

I bet if you had just tried to do it in steps, (first, replace pickups; then add p/p to coil-shunt; then try the 4-way mod) you might have made it all work - it's just too tough to troubleshoot when there is so much going on at once.

cc9cii · July 2nd, 2009, 06:22 PM

+1

I've messed up plenty when I got started, probably more than others

Fortunately they were radios & stuff... Still, I carry a good size solder blob scar on my left leg (you smelll before you feel) as a reminder of many things I had to learn to do, not to do, etc.

I bet you'll do much better next time.

popeye · July 2nd, 2009, 07:27 PM

A "Fat" Tele was a Tele made by Fender with a Humbucker in the neck position and a single coil in the bridge. It was wired with a 5 way switch part number 0039003000. This switch is not a standard Strat switch, nor is it a superswitch and YES it will fit with no major modifications. I have 2 Teles wired this way and I absolutely LOVE the 5 different sounds. I wouldn't wire a Tele with this pup configuration any other way. You still get the Tele twang. You also get the Humbucker and bridge together not to mention some awesome single coil sounds and it is so easy to wire from the diagram given to you through Deaf Eddie's link. Do it now!!

eagleeye · July 4th, 2009, 02:36 PM

Deaf Eddie Can you tell me where to find the 5 way FAT tele diagram? I am getting another tele and want to do it the FAT way! I guess I love to be challenged? Hey I do feel better knowing that this mod I tried was one of the tougher ones. I feel if I would have done it the last way drawn up I would have succeeded! I was SOOOO CLOSE to getting it but just had the switch messed up along with the grounding to the volume rather than the tone although I think that would have been OK. I really want to learn the tech stuff and do all of my own wiring for my guitars. I will get the fender switch now and get the stuff ready for the next one! BTW wouldn't the way we discussed give me even a better FAT style with the push pull than just a 5 way? Or can I do the 5 way along with push pulls? Maybe even two? I thought the 4 way with the push pulls would give me more options than just a 5 way? Was I wrong?

Talmir · July 4th, 2009, 02:54 PM

A question to Deaf eddie, the resident wiring guru :)

I have an alnico 2 SD humbucker in the neck, and stock HW1 bridge pickup. At the moment its wired with only a 3 position switch so its neck / both / bridge.. I find my neck humbucker a tad too dark sounding at times, is there a way for me to brighten it up a bit (does the 0.22 cap do that? didnt completely understand that part) and will the schematics on page one work for me if I should go for the 4 way switch?

Thank you, and sorry to intrude upon your thread :D

popeye · July 5th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Eagleeye,

In his July 1 post above Deaf Eddie provides the Fender drawing. In it you will see a resistor that is labeled as #17. This is a 270k resistor that gets wrapped in shrink tubing. Also, the pots used for wiring a Fat Tele are 500k. You really should go to the Fender guitar page and look under "wiring diagrams", scroll down to the Telecasters and find the Fat Tele as the very last Tele listed. There you will find pretty much all of the info you will need. Good luck.

eagleeye · July 6th, 2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popeye

Why not install an Oaks Grigsby 5 way switch and wire yourself up a FAT Tele? You will get 5 distinct sounds and you will love it. The wiring schematic is on Fender's website. Go for it !!

Which 5 way switch do I need? Would I want the 5 way 4 pole or the standard 5 way? Also would using a 4 way with a push pull pot for the neck pup be about the same but with more options?

eagleeye · July 6th, 2009, 04:36 PM

I got my AXE back from the tech without any work done. He seems to never be in a hurry to do my work and has SCRATCHED the crap out of my acoustic using a drill to replace my strings and then had the nerve to say it was done at the factory which was more than I could swallow! He did spend over an hour buffing out the scratches but I have not been back since until my girlfriend took my Tele in. I wanted her to go to the other shop but she opted for Bernies instead! I can now do this myself and follow Eddies revised diagram for my reverse control plate. I will take my time and follow the diagram and "GET HER DONE". Here I go again......................I love the smell of hot solder!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Eddie

Well, that's just lovely.

The FIRST thing I see is IT APPEARS that you have your pots and pup selector switch reversed - pots towards the neck, selector towards the bridge. Is that the case? If you said something about that, I must have missed it or misunderstood you.

If that's how you want the controls laid out, what it means is that you have the 4-way rotated 180 degrees wrong - so when the lever points bridge-way, you the get the neck pup, and vice-verse.

And also, you have the tone pot BETWEEN the volume and the 4-way. That doesn't really change anything, but it sure makes your layout NOT match any of the drawings that I created for you. No wonder you're having novice issues. Bad input = bad output.

If you like that layout, and have enough leads, you should rotate JUST the 4-way so that the common lug with the bridge pup's hot is closest to the tone pot.

If you DON'T have enough leads, do not despair, here's a drawing with the corrected 4-way layout and the volume/tone layout to match the picture you posted of your control plate:

Although NONE of this should affect the issue of the neck being on all the time, you never can tell... Flip the switch OR rewire it as shown, and see if that resolves anything.

eagleeye · July 7th, 2009, 01:51 PM

WOW WOW WOW! I GOT IT! And it SCREAMS, SINGS AND CRIES! This thing is a beast! I knew it would sound good but having the push pull for 3 of the 4 switch settings is really what makes this. I can THUMP and pull out the pot and clean up. It sounds like an original and I can't wait to put it to the test. EDDIE you are the MAN! I now have something that is in a league of its own! My friends are gonna be SHOCKED when I play this! LOL The .022 pot hit it perfect for tone also! Great choice and this thing is FATTER than FAT! THANK YOU EDDIE!

eagleeye · July 7th, 2009, 02:20 PM

Would putting a .047 cap make the sound brighter or darker then a .022? If I go higher will it get brighter? Or should I go lower if I decide to add more treble to the sound. I like it as it is but would like to know what I would get if I change? Now I want to learn MORE!

Deaf Eddie · July 7th, 2009, 04:26 PM

The .047uF - a bigger value - would make the whole guitar a tad darker.

A .010Uf - a smaller value - would make the whole guitar brighter.

If you want it to be a lot brighter, switch to a no-load tone pot.

eagleeye · July 8th, 2009, 09:41 PM

How do I do the no-load? I think the .010 is the best bet but I would like to know how to do the no-load just in case. Also can you tell me on the push pull pot why are there six lugs? I know you said the middle lugs are common I think? But are the lugs just another of the same to connect two items to it? Would that be what makes it a DP (double pole)? I have a Les Paul I am going to install SD hot rodded pups in with 4 conductor and I am going to coil shunt them also. Should I replace the volume or tone pots with push pulls and any advice for the capacitors? Does anyone know what are the BEST pots for guitars? I see Bourns at Mouser and they are GUITAR pots but everyone seems to use CTS. Neither of these are push pull so I just want to upgrade them for the pots I won't need PP at. I know this is a Tele site but EDDIE is the GENIUS and I know he has knowledge for the Les Paul. My Ultra II Les Paul is gonna sing like my TELE does now! I am LOVING THE SMELL OF HOT SOLDER now..............So does my AXE!

Deaf Eddie · July 9th, 2009, 01:54 AM

The no-load pot is wired exactly as your current tone pot is wired. The difference is internal.

Most common p/p pots, as shown in my drawings, are indeed DP/DT switches. The two rows of three contacts are each considered a single pole: the center lug is the common, and the two "outside" lugs are the switchable contact points, and that's the Double Throw part of it. It's that arrangement, doubled for the Double Pole part.

P/P pots can be used as volumes or tones, it's strictly a matter of personal preference and ergonomics. For me, I usually like the tone location, but a lot of players prefer them under the volume.

CTS is the defacto brand-of-choice, and I wouldn't dare contradict tradition. But, use whatever you think will work for you. If it's a Gibson (not an Epi) Les Paul, IMHO there's probably not much to be gained replacing the pots, unless you just want to use a different value to adjust the voice of the guitar. Epis can definitely use the upgrade to better electronics.

eagleeye · July 9th, 2009, 06:31 PM

Thank You Eddie! My LP is an Epi Ultra II so I will replace the pots and the selector switch when I change pups. I ordered Dimarzio PP pots today in 500k and will decide to use them in either tone or volume spots. I think I will replace the switch with switchcraft also since you gave me the heads-up.

Now to the SWEET TELE! I notice that my pups sound nasely? I tried the tone adjustment but that does not do it. Any idea why? I have heard others have had similar sound but don't know how it was fixed? Or if it can be? How is it remedied?

Deaf Eddie · July 9th, 2009, 09:11 PM

The description "nasally" USUALLY indicates that the pickups are out of phase. This usually ALSO is accompanied by the words "thin" and "weak".

If all of those words apply to throws #2 and #4 ONLY, then that might be the case (pups out of phase) - however, it would be really UNUSUAL to find two Seymour Duncan pups that have been manufactured out of phase (but, it happens).

If it applies to ALL the throws, that's a puzzler. Maybe you just don't like the tone of these pickups in that axe. Try disconnecting the tone cap and see what that does.

If you decide the pups are out of phase - nasally ONLY in throws #2 and #4 - the fix is simply to reverse the green and black leads on ONE of the pickups. It doesn't matter which one. Remember, BOTH of the bare wires stay soldered to ground, regardless.

eagleeye · July 9th, 2009, 10:52 PM

No it sounds nasally in all positions but definitely NOT thin or weak. Also it is in the bridge pup only. It has a very unique sound! Honestly I LOVE it but thought to ask "THE GENIUS". Oh it sounds AWESOME and so unique definitely more for rock than country but when I coil shunt the neck I get a great single coil sound perfect for country! It just has a very different sound and the more I play it the more I like it so I'll leave it alone. I just ordered a Highway One Tele so I can get the real Tele twang from that! Is there any other pups I might want to try for the Highway One? It is the standard with a maple neck and fretboard! I LOVE the maple sound! I would like to upgrade the pups in it also so am open to any suggestions. Also I would like to put in a 5 way and make it a FAT TELE if possible? Can you draw me up the plans to do it? What kind of Oakley 5 way do I need for it? Does it matter? Most of all would you recommend it and can I do it with the stock pups? Any thoughts for me to think of? THANK YOU "THE GENIUS" EDDIE! I could NEVER have done any of this without the help you offered along with your PATIENCE!

Deaf Eddie · July 10th, 2009, 01:02 PM

SAGE ADVICE: play the Highway One STOCK for a while...

I've never heard the Lil 59er bridge pup described as nasally, but there's an adjustment or two you can try on that pup. It's been my experience that Lil 59ers don't line up BOTH coils with the strings very well - one looks pretty good, but the other is off-centered. So...

First, eyeball the pickup and decide which coil's polepieces line up the best with the strings. Screw those polepieces OUT, so that they poke up above the top of the pickup a bit (you may need to lower the pup to get that to work). NEXT, screw the polepieces of the other coil IN, as far as they will go (probably just level with the top of the bobbin).

NEXT, since that pup has three mounting screws, adjust/tilt it so that it is NOT level with the strings, but rather so that it has the coil with the polepieces OUT and UP (and aligned with the strings) closer to the strings than the (off-centered) coil with the screw pieces you screwed in.

What we're trying to do is make one coil have more output than the other coil - unbalancing the coils. That adjustment MIGHT make the pup seem a little brighter.

Conversely, If you'd like that pup to be warmer, you might try to get the output of the two coils as matched as possible by adjusting the polepieces and tilting the pickup just the opposite from as described above. Screw IN the aligned polepieces and screw OUT the "off-centered" coil's polepieces, and tilt it. See what you get...

eagleeye · July 11th, 2009, 12:06 AM

WOW once again you are amazing! Just adjusting the height and tilting the pup a little in front made a big difference but it still has a completely different sound! It really is UNIQUE and sounds good. I know I said nasally but it is not that kind of nasally which is bad. I think it is the general sound of the Lil 59. I think I misspoke? I tried to do as you say and it does make a difference but the more I play it the more I like it. It really has a one of a kind sound that KICKS ASS especially with pedals. I have it hooked to my Epiphone So Cal amp and let me tell you this thing can play it all! If only I could....... I was on my Line 6 Spider Jam and it sounds good on it also. Later I will go to my VOX AC50CP which is a ONE OF A KIND MACHINE! I then will go to my one of 5 modded VJ's and then on to my Crate GLX1200H and let you know the results of them all! I think I have a JEWEL and will leave my Highway One alone as you say for now. Now it is on to my Epi Ultra II to put the two push pull pots and CTS pots along with switchcraft and see if I can get it as BAD as my little SQUIER? My friends are coming over Sunday and they can play much better than I so I will let them take the Squier to the test. EDDIE I cannot say THANK YOU ENOUGH! You have taught me so much I owe you greatly! I hope to get some sounds recorded and post them but I don't want to let my treasure out of the box yet. I can't believe nobody has paired these up. WOW I am glad I did! Sometimes it is good to be dumb....... This time it paid off! I recommend you give this pair a try and tell me if I hit it. I have my OWN SOUND NOW!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Eddie

SAGE ADVICE: play the Highway One STOCK for a while...

I've never heard the Lil 59er bridge pup described as nasally, but there's an adjustment or two you can try on that pup. It's been my experience that Lil 59ers don't line up BOTH coils with the strings very well - one looks pretty good, but the other is off-centered. So...

First, eyeball the pickup and decide which coil's polepieces line up the best with the strings. Screw those polepieces OUT, so that they poke up above the top of the pickup a bit (you may need to lower the pup to get that to work). NEXT, screw the polepieces of the other coil IN, as far as they will go (probably just level with the top of the bobbin).

NEXT, since that pup has three mounting screws, adjust/tilt it so that it is NOT level with the strings, but rather so that it has the coil with the polepieces OUT and UP (and aligned with the strings) closer to the strings than the (off-centered) coil with the screw pieces you screwed in.

What we're trying to do is make one coil have more output than the other coil - unbalancing the coils. That adjustment MIGHT make the pup seem a little brighter.

Conversely, If you'd like that pup to be warmer, you might try to get the output of the two coils as matched as possible by adjusting the polepieces and tilting the pickup just the opposite from as described above. Screw IN the aligned polepieces and screw OUT the "off-centered" coil's polepieces, and tilt it. See what you get...

eagleeye · July 21st, 2009, 06:39 PM

I notice my Tele has a little buzz which goes away once I touch metal on the guitar. I think it is a grounding issue but since I am a AMATEUR I would like some JOURNEYMAN help. It goes away when I touch any metal except the pick guard attaching screws to the body. How can I isolate it? Or is there an easy fix? ANYTHING! It is really not loud but gets louder with a pedal.

July 2nd, 2009, 12:27 AM	#92 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,740 14 Photos	That's a pretty good suggestion, IF you can't get the 4-way scheme to work for you... It takes the "half-superswitch" to make it work. Here's the Fender drawing... __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before...

July 2nd, 2009, 03:41 PM	#98 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,740 14 Photos	Well, that's just lovely. The FIRST thing I see is IT APPEARS that you have your pots and pup selector switch reversed - pots towards the neck, selector towards the bridge. Is that the case? If you said something about that, I must have missed it or misunderstood you. If that's how you want the controls laid out, what it means is that you have the 4-way rotated 180 degrees wrong - so when the lever points bridge-way, you the get the neck pup, and vice-verse. And also, you have the tone pot BETWEEN the volume and the 4-way. That doesn't really change anything, but it sure makes your layout NOT match any of the drawings that I created for you. No wonder you're having novice issues. Bad input = bad output. If you like that layout, and have enough leads, you should rotate JUST the 4-way so that the common lug with the bridge pup's hot is closest to the tone pot. If you DON'T have enough leads, do not despair, here's a drawing with the corrected 4-way layout and the volume/tone layout to match the picture you posted of your control plate: Although NONE of this should affect the issue of the neck being on all the time, you never can tell... Flip the switch OR rewire it as shown, and see if that resolves anything. __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before... Last edited by Deaf Eddie; July 2nd, 2009 at 05:31 PM.

July 2nd, 2009, 05:36 PM	#100 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,740 14 Photos	Well, there is a learning curve involved here, and you not only tried one of the more difficult mods (Fender 4-way scheme) to wrap your head around, but complicated it by adding a push/pull or two. I bet if you had just tried to do it in steps, (first, replace pickups; then add p/p to coil-shunt; then try the 4-way mod) you might have made it all work - it's just too tough to troubleshoot when there is so much going on at once. __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before...

July 4th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#104 (permalink)
Talmir Tele-Meister Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: iceland Age: 26 Posts: 421	A question to Deaf eddie, the resident wiring guru :) I have an alnico 2 SD humbucker in the neck, and stock HW1 bridge pickup. At the moment its wired with only a 3 position switch so its neck / both / bridge.. I find my neck humbucker a tad too dark sounding at times, is there a way for me to brighten it up a bit (does the 0.22 cap do that? didnt completely understand that part) and will the schematics on page one work for me if I should go for the 4 way switch? Thank you, and sorry to intrude upon your thread :D __________________

July 7th, 2009, 04:26 PM	#110 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,740 14 Photos	The .047uF - a bigger value - would make the whole guitar a tad darker. A .010Uf - a smaller value - would make the whole guitar brighter. If you want it to be a lot brighter, switch to a no-load tone pot. __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before...

July 1st, 2009, 12:28 PM	#81 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	I will do that. I do have the neck green to common on the switch and the bare to the volume pot ground. The green from the neck pup is on the bottom left and the black from the bridge is on the top right according to the diagram. The red/white of the neck is on the middle left lug of the push pull pot with the black on the front left lug of the push pull. The neck green is to the bottom left common with bare to the back of the volume pot. I will do the meter test now and get back to you! THANKS for the HELP!

July 1st, 2009, 01:08 PM	#82 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	Here is a description of the switch wiring. Left side - #1 post open #2 volume pot ground and bridged to #3 #3 bridged to #2 #4 bridged to bottom right #5 post #5 (common) to Neck green wire. Right side - #1 (common) to black bridge wire #2 Red to volume pot front left post which is jumped to top front left of push pull pot and on to the black neck wire #3 Bridged to #2 only #4 open #5 bridged to #4 on left side I think my bridge on the right side needs to be moved down one post to #3 #4? as when I am in the #1 position both pups are active? Any thoughts?

July 1st, 2009, 01:54 PM	#83 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	I posted pics in the forum somewhere? "Tele wiring needs help" or eagleeye? Anyway I stated the switch wiring above so hopefully it is bridged wrong? It's gotta be! But hey, I am always wrong so I do as I am told at least with this...........

July 1st, 2009, 02:38 PM	#84 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	Eddie; Does it matter where I wire to the bridges? I just noticed I had both the volume ground to the upper bridge on the left side and the red volume pot jumper to the upper right bridge. Boy am I screwed up! I will switch those now and see what I get. Hopefully it will work??????? Everything else looks good!

July 1st, 2009, 03:07 PM	#86 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	I did it but still have both the bridge and neck in #1 position. I have neck only in #3 position. I have both in #4 and so on. Please look at the switch diagram and tell me if it is right? Are you sure this is correct? Is there any way you can draw up another and give it to me?

July 1st, 2009, 03:07 PM	#87 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	I wired it all as per diagram and I get what I have above!

July 1st, 2009, 03:10 PM	#88 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	I meant does it matter on which post I wire to when wiring to the bridges on the switch? I wired exactly as you stated so that is irrelevant now. I still don't get the bridge alone in #1 position.

July 1st, 2009, 09:43 PM	#90 (permalink)
popeye Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Clemmons NC Age: 51 Posts: 116	Why not install an Oaks Grigsby 5 way switch and wire yourself up a FAT Tele? You will get 5 distinct sounds and you will love it. The wiring schematic is on Fender's website. Go for it !!

July 1st, 2009, 11:36 PM	#91 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	How do I do that? I would love it! do I need the 5 way 4 pole or just the 5 way? What do you mean FAT Tele?

July 2nd, 2009, 11:36 AM	#93 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	I still have a problem! When I hook up the jumper wire from the volume front left post looking from the front and then to the black on the top front I get the neck active all the time along with the bridge pup. With the green disconnected on the neck I get nothing so the ground seems to be fine. Can someone check the diagram above and tell me if it is correct? I have wired this twice and checked it but something is wrong somewhere. It is not on my side this time. I just wish it would work...............

July 2nd, 2009, 11:41 AM	#94 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	OK you say the neck only grounds through the common and I hooked the bare neck wire to the back of the volume pot as you stated earlier. Should I remove the bare from the volume pot and move it to the common along with the green? If so that is where it is! It is all making sense if that should be to the common?

July 2nd, 2009, 05:01 PM	#99 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	No I did not. I only know that I KNOW NOTHING! I finally gave up and took it in to let the pros do it. LOL They have done more bad than good to my other guitars which is why I decided to give it a try. Now I guess they can't do worse than me so I give up! Honestly I wish the first drawing would have been correct. Anyway I see now what you are saying about the pots but that is what I had to go with originally. I did have the green from the switch going to the volume as that is what the drawing showed though I don't see that as a problem but just caused confusion. The switch was it and I see that it all is different now. Hmmmm, I wish I got this drawing originally but that is the way it goes. Maybe next time! I have learned alot about what NOT TO DO! I would bet this was all I needed but because I did not know I was only following your diagram. I can say this one looks like it would work but the tech will get my $$$$ and save me any more frustration and time! I know you tried to help this rookie but he just couldn't do it as this is the first time I did anything with the switches or pots. I think I will leave the electrical to someone else!

July 2nd, 2009, 06:22 PM	#101 (permalink)
cc9cii Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 768	+1 I've messed up plenty when I got started, probably more than others Fortunately they were radios & stuff... Still, I carry a good size solder blob scar on my left leg (you smelll before you feel) as a reminder of many things I had to learn to do, not to do, etc. I bet you'll do much better next time.

July 2nd, 2009, 07:27 PM	#102 (permalink)
popeye Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Clemmons NC Age: 51 Posts: 116	A "Fat" Tele was a Tele made by Fender with a Humbucker in the neck position and a single coil in the bridge. It was wired with a 5 way switch part number 0039003000. This switch is not a standard Strat switch, nor is it a superswitch and YES it will fit with no major modifications. I have 2 Teles wired this way and I absolutely LOVE the 5 different sounds. I wouldn't wire a Tele with this pup configuration any other way. You still get the Tele twang. You also get the Humbucker and bridge together not to mention some awesome single coil sounds and it is so easy to wire from the diagram given to you through Deaf Eddie's link. Do it now!!

July 4th, 2009, 02:36 PM	#103 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	Deaf Eddie Can you tell me where to find the 5 way FAT tele diagram? I am getting another tele and want to do it the FAT way! I guess I love to be challenged? Hey I do feel better knowing that this mod I tried was one of the tougher ones. I feel if I would have done it the last way drawn up I would have succeeded! I was SOOOO CLOSE to getting it but just had the switch messed up along with the grounding to the volume rather than the tone although I think that would have been OK. I really want to learn the tech stuff and do all of my own wiring for my guitars. I will get the fender switch now and get the stuff ready for the next one! BTW wouldn't the way we discussed give me even a better FAT style with the push pull than just a 5 way? Or can I do the 5 way along with push pulls? Maybe even two? I thought the 4 way with the push pulls would give me more options than just a 5 way? Was I wrong?

July 5th, 2009, 10:31 AM	#105 (permalink)
popeye Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Clemmons NC Age: 51 Posts: 116	Eagleeye, In his July 1 post above Deaf Eddie provides the Fender drawing. In it you will see a resistor that is labeled as #17. This is a 270k resistor that gets wrapped in shrink tubing. Also, the pots used for wiring a Fat Tele are 500k. You really should go to the Fender guitar page and look under "wiring diagrams", scroll down to the Telecasters and find the Fat Tele as the very last Tele listed. There you will find pretty much all of the info you will need. Good luck.

July 7th, 2009, 01:51 PM	#108 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	WOW WOW WOW! I GOT IT! And it SCREAMS, SINGS AND CRIES! This thing is a beast! I knew it would sound good but having the push pull for 3 of the 4 switch settings is really what makes this. I can THUMP and pull out the pot and clean up. It sounds like an original and I can't wait to put it to the test. EDDIE you are the MAN! I now have something that is in a league of its own! My friends are gonna be SHOCKED when I play this! LOL The .022 pot hit it perfect for tone also! Great choice and this thing is FATTER than FAT! THANK YOU EDDIE!

July 7th, 2009, 02:20 PM	#109 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	Would putting a .047 cap make the sound brighter or darker then a .022? If I go higher will it get brighter? Or should I go lower if I decide to add more treble to the sound. I like it as it is but would like to know what I would get if I change? Now I want to learn MORE!

July 8th, 2009, 09:41 PM	#111 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	How do I do the no-load? I think the .010 is the best bet but I would like to know how to do the no-load just in case. Also can you tell me on the push pull pot why are there six lugs? I know you said the middle lugs are common I think? But are the lugs just another of the same to connect two items to it? Would that be what makes it a DP (double pole)? I have a Les Paul I am going to install SD hot rodded pups in with 4 conductor and I am going to coil shunt them also. Should I replace the volume or tone pots with push pulls and any advice for the capacitors? Does anyone know what are the BEST pots for guitars? I see Bourns at Mouser and they are GUITAR pots but everyone seems to use CTS. Neither of these are push pull so I just want to upgrade them for the pots I won't need PP at. I know this is a Tele site but EDDIE is the GENIUS and I know he has knowledge for the Les Paul. My Ultra II Les Paul is gonna sing like my TELE does now! I am LOVING THE SMELL OF HOT SOLDER now..............So does my AXE!

July 9th, 2009, 01:54 AM	#112 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,740 14 Photos	The no-load pot is wired exactly as your current tone pot is wired. The difference is internal. Most common p/p pots, as shown in my drawings, are indeed DP/DT switches. The two rows of three contacts are each considered a single pole: the center lug is the common, and the two "outside" lugs are the switchable contact points, and that's the Double Throw part of it. It's that arrangement, doubled for the Double Pole part. P/P pots can be used as volumes or tones, it's strictly a matter of personal preference and ergonomics. For me, I usually like the tone location, but a lot of players prefer them under the volume. CTS is the defacto brand-of-choice, and I wouldn't dare contradict tradition. But, use whatever you think will work for you. If it's a Gibson (not an Epi) Les Paul, IMHO there's probably not much to be gained replacing the pots, unless you just want to use a different value to adjust the voice of the guitar. Epis can definitely use the upgrade to better electronics. __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before...

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July 9th, 2009, 06:31 PM	#113 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	Thank You Eddie! My LP is an Epi Ultra II so I will replace the pots and the selector switch when I change pups. I ordered Dimarzio PP pots today in 500k and will decide to use them in either tone or volume spots. I think I will replace the switch with switchcraft also since you gave me the heads-up. Now to the SWEET TELE! I notice that my pups sound nasely? I tried the tone adjustment but that does not do it. Any idea why? I have heard others have had similar sound but don't know how it was fixed? Or if it can be? How is it remedied?

July 9th, 2009, 09:11 PM	#114 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,740 14 Photos	The description "nasally" USUALLY indicates that the pickups are out of phase. This usually ALSO is accompanied by the words "thin" and "weak". If all of those words apply to throws #2 and #4 ONLY, then that might be the case (pups out of phase) - however, it would be really UNUSUAL to find two Seymour Duncan pups that have been manufactured out of phase (but, it happens). If it applies to ALL the throws, that's a puzzler. Maybe you just don't like the tone of these pickups in that axe. Try disconnecting the tone cap and see what that does. If you decide the pups are out of phase - nasally ONLY in throws #2 and #4 - the fix is simply to reverse the green and black leads on ONE of the pickups. It doesn't matter which one. Remember, BOTH of the bare wires stay soldered to ground, regardless. __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before...

July 9th, 2009, 10:52 PM	#115 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	No it sounds nasally in all positions but definitely NOT thin or weak. Also it is in the bridge pup only. It has a very unique sound! Honestly I LOVE it but thought to ask "THE GENIUS". Oh it sounds AWESOME and so unique definitely more for rock than country but when I coil shunt the neck I get a great single coil sound perfect for country! It just has a very different sound and the more I play it the more I like it so I'll leave it alone. I just ordered a Highway One Tele so I can get the real Tele twang from that! Is there any other pups I might want to try for the Highway One? It is the standard with a maple neck and fretboard! I LOVE the maple sound! I would like to upgrade the pups in it also so am open to any suggestions. Also I would like to put in a 5 way and make it a FAT TELE if possible? Can you draw me up the plans to do it? What kind of Oakley 5 way do I need for it? Does it matter? Most of all would you recommend it and can I do it with the stock pups? Any thoughts for me to think of? THANK YOU "THE GENIUS" EDDIE! I could NEVER have done any of this without the help you offered along with your PATIENCE!

July 10th, 2009, 01:02 PM	#116 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,740 14 Photos	SAGE ADVICE: play the Highway One STOCK for a while... I've never heard the Lil 59er bridge pup described as nasally, but there's an adjustment or two you can try on that pup. It's been my experience that Lil 59ers don't line up BOTH coils with the strings very well - one looks pretty good, but the other is off-centered. So... First, eyeball the pickup and decide which coil's polepieces line up the best with the strings. Screw those polepieces OUT, so that they poke up above the top of the pickup a bit (you may need to lower the pup to get that to work). NEXT, screw the polepieces of the other coil IN, as far as they will go (probably just level with the top of the bobbin). NEXT, since that pup has three mounting screws, adjust/tilt it so that it is NOT level with the strings, but rather so that it has the coil with the polepieces OUT and UP (and aligned with the strings) closer to the strings than the (off-centered) coil with the screw pieces you screwed in. What we're trying to do is make one coil have more output than the other coil - unbalancing the coils. That adjustment MIGHT make the pup seem a little brighter. Conversely, If you'd like that pup to be warmer, you might try to get the output of the two coils as matched as possible by adjusting the polepieces and tilting the pickup just the opposite from as described above. Screw IN the aligned polepieces and screw OUT the "off-centered" coil's polepieces, and tilt it. See what you get... __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before... Last edited by Deaf Eddie; July 10th, 2009 at 07:46 PM.

July 21st, 2009, 06:39 PM	#118 (permalink)
eagleeye TDPRI Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Redding, CA Age: 47 Posts: 50	I notice my Tele has a little buzz which goes away once I touch metal on the guitar. I think it is a grounding issue but since I am a AMATEUR I would like some JOURNEYMAN help. It goes away when I touch any metal except the pick guard attaching screws to the body. How can I isolate it? Or is there an easy fix? ANYTHING! It is really not loud but gets louder with a pedal.