Heavy Strings: Hello Tone, Goodbye Twang

[micpoc]

I've been wanting to work on my jazz chops recently, so I just made the switch from 9-42 gauge to 12-52 gauge - widening and (slightly) lowering the nut slots, reintonating, etc - and the tonal change is, of course, remarkable, and tuning stability issues appear to be a thing of the past. But the characteristic Tele twang is, if not non-existent, a mere shadow of its former self. I guess Tele twang is a combination of the bridge pickup characteristics AND the interaction of the strings with the bridge plate. Seems like all that's left now is the pickup portion of the tone. It's fine for what I want to do right now, but has anyone else noticed this phenomena when moving up the string tension?

[boris bubbanov]

Yeah, a little.

I'd plateau'd mostly at 11-49s; the 12s are a bit too much for me.

But I've never been the Potentate of Twang to start with; with 9's and 9.5's I was having to dial the twang back a bit, anyway. I'm on a variety kick at the moment, since my vacation hands are not up to my normal diet of steady 11-49.
Getting different results with different string guages can invigorate ya; feel like the young kid in the candy store again.

[micpoc]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

Getting different results with different string guages can invigorate ya; feel like the young kid in the candy store again.

Absolutely; alternate tunings can do the same as well.

One thing I'm realizing consciously now (guess I've always known it subconsciously): one of the reasons jazz guys go for the heavy flatwound strings and the rolled-off treble is reduced overtones. When you're playing harmonically complex music, the overtones that you get from a regular setup can really confuse things, so keeping the tone flat makes all those odd voicings really shine through.

The trade off - at least as far as traditional Tele tone is concerned - is that twang thing. The good part is that I can always revert back, should I suddenly realize that I'm not going to turn into Joe Pass or Pat Metheny overnight. Plus, a big jazz box (which I LOVE, btw) will NEVER even come close to the Tele twang.

[J. Hayes]

what it's best use is.......IMHO a Tele will always be a Twang Axe. I have one of my Les Pauls set up with 11's and flatwounds which is a great sounding guitar for jazzy type songs. My Tele's are set up with hybrid 9-46 strings. I have a couple of other Les Pauls set up with 10-46 which is my favorite for them..............JH in Va.

[Zhurh]

Luv my 12-54 vintage SOB's on all my teles & strats. Been using them for 2-3 years now and everytime I try to go down, I take them off nx day; can't stand the sound.

I have stk Fralins on my calif tele & just got a new Goldtop tele with Curt Novaks tele pups; now that one sounds nice for jazz. It's either the chestnut body or Novaks; but one thing for sure I stick with 12-54's.

[Colt W. Knight]

My guitar has the best Twang with .010s, but its sounds the best with my style of picking using .011s. .009s just don't work for me, to flimsy and thin sounding.

[e-merlin]

Try raising the pickups. It's amazing what you can get away with on heavier strings. Be prepared to adjust your amp settings, too.

[Stackabones]

Just a quick question ... why do you think you need thicker strings to play jazz? Jazz is music, not gear -- don't ya think?

Whenever a jazz guitarist plays a guitar that guitar automatically transforms into a jazz guitar, not the other way around.

Jazz needs more twang in it imo. I'd rather hear Jim Campilongo or Gatton playing Harlem Nocturne than another Wes clone (though I loooove the original Wes tone). ;)

[TeleLubber]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

Jazz needs more twang in it imo.

My ribs hurt from laughing! This is so true!

Metal needs more Twang too!

[micpoc]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

Just a quick question ... why do you think you need thicker strings to play jazz? Jazz is music, not gear -- don't ya think?

Whenever a jazz guitarist plays a guitar that guitar automatically transforms into a jazz guitar, not the other way around.

Jazz needs more twang in it imo. I'd rather hear Jim Campilongo or Gatton playing Harlem Nocturne than another Wes clone (though I loooove the original Wes tone). ;)

What the world needs now is twang, sweet twang.

A valid question. For myself, I've found that I have more difficulty intonating complex chords correctly on thinner strings; my hands want to pull my fingers together on big spreads, hence my tuning stability is not what I would like it to be. This problem is, for me, greatly minimized on heavier strings. Also, I've never found a guitar, Tele or otherwise, that didn't stay in tune better with heavier strings. Just my experience. Plus, as I already mentioned, I've found that I can go with lower action with heavier strings... again, a stability issue. I'm sure I'll end up missing the edginess of the 9s, but right now, this is what I'm gong for.

Of course, you're right about music vs. gear; that said, there are some historical aspects to it as well. and jazz players have TENDED to use heavier strings throughout the years; two exceptions that come to mind are John McLaughlin and Mike Stern (a Tele player, BTW), and possibly Frisell as well. It's also a mental trick/crutch, I suppose. As soon as I can afford a decent hollowbody (where light strings REALLY don't work), then it'll be back to 9s on the Tele.

I too love Gatton's "Harlem Nocturne" as well, and Campilongo is my first "new" guitar hero in nearly 20 years; his trio records slay me and his piece "Cat Under a Car" has been included on my numerous mixed CD gifts recently (I'm generous but cheap). As for Wes, I tried to be a Wes clone when I was a kid, but I could never get the thumb thing down.

[bargoedboy]

i think its good to have different setups for different music as it forces you to play differently , where as with light strings we all tend to bend them up a tone or more with heavy strings we tend to play the note that you need changing your style which i think makes you more versatile and broadens your horizons so to speak . at the moment i use 9-46 which are too thin for me normally i prefer 10`s-46 but my hands suffer from arthritus now so i have to be more carefull what i use and adjust my playing to suit . what is also worth noting the heavier the strings the heavier pick i use and vice versa for light strings as you do not have to play light strings so hard to get the tone.

[Stackabones]

I wonder about the historical aspect of heavy guage strings. IIRC electric guitars used to be shipped with fairly heavy guages (12s or 13s). I'm doing some random memory stuff here ... I also seem to recall that players used to sub out banjo strings for the 3rd string (or maybe the 2nd and 1st as well) so that they could start bending.

One piece of advice for newbie jazz guitarists is "Don't bend strings." (Silly piece of advice, but it's out there.) Ya gotta wonder if jazz gutiarists didn't traditionally bend strings due to the limited range of string guages -- and not ability or some kind of anti-bending aesthetic.

[surfoverb]

My 11-48 twang just fine...Its no coincidence though that they are strung onto A 52ri Tele plugged into a twin reverb...I like the heavier because I do mostly full chord strumming or just stay on the bottom 3 ala Luther Perkins... I think 8-9's might be better if you're after that James Burton slinkyness he's got going on, but for me I like the beef.

[micpoc]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

... I also seem to recall that players used to sub out banjo strings for the 3rd string (or maybe the 2nd and 1st as well) so that they could start bending.

Right; that may have started with Burton. I don't know when string makers became hip to the fact that guitarists were doing that.

One piece of advice for newbie jazz guitarists is "Don't bend strings." (Silly piece of advice, but it's out there.)

Yea, the Jazz Police: "No Bending! And absolutely NO pinch harmonics under ANY circumstances! What do you think you are - a LEAD instrument??"

Historically, I think it goes back to jazz guitar's roots as a RHYTHM instrument, and one that had to cut through all the horns and drums surrounding them (like Freddie Green did with Basie): heavy strings = volume. Once they started amplifying and getting a chance to solo once in a blue moon, that sound just sort of stuck around. So, I guess there's a bit of "honoring tradition" to it.

Plus, it's a change, and that's nearly ALWAYS a good thing.

[wangdangdoodle]

Funny enough Danny Gatton used 10-46's, and he always got a stunning Jazz tone... check out his rendition of Seven Come Eleven/Home to Charlie Christian on youtube.

[pbenn]

To bring back twang with bigger strings, maybe now is the time to raise the treble side of the lead pickup some. Assuming it was sensible before, of course.

Going to Pyramid nickles I had to change my rhythm pickup's slant (rake?) in favour of the treble side.