fret levelling tips for partscaster?

ScottUK · June 9th, 2008, 06:23 PM

Hi can anyone give me some advice on levelling the frets on a new allparts neck for the partscaster I am building? It's the first time I have attempted this and I'm a bit lost

here is a pic of the guitar

Scott S · June 9th, 2008, 07:04 PM

Does it buzz or fret-out when you play it? You might be able to get away with doing no work if it performs well as-is.

- Scott

crowden · June 9th, 2008, 08:33 PM

I used Rob DiStefano's "Level & Crown Tutorial". Go to FretTech.com, click on "Info" and you'll see the link to it.

eryque · June 9th, 2008, 09:56 PM

Keep in mind that in order to level & crown you really need a few specialty tools, and the cost adds up quickly. If you don't plan on doing this repeatedly, you're better off taking it to someone you trust.

Rob DiStefano · June 10th, 2008, 07:04 AM

A pro L&C will run from $75 to $150. Learning to accomplish an L&C isn't particularly difficult, but you do need to understand the process and you will need to spend some tooling dollars ...

Fingerboard and fret straight edge - $8 (24" plastic drafting T square)
Leveling file, 6" - $35 (or make one from a mill bastard file)
Leveling bar, 8" - $32 (or use a 9" or so wood block plane)
100, 150, 220, 600 grit abrasives - $16 at Home Depot
MicroMesh abrasive kit - $45 (a must have item)
Diamond 'medium' dual grit fret crowning file - $56
Fret dressing safe edge file - $13

There are some tweaks to do with some of the above tools - will tell all if you care to know.

Total tooling outlay can be as much as $225, or as little as $100 (depending on what you already have or can make).

Doing yer own level and crown = priceless.

allen st. john · June 10th, 2008, 07:49 AM

Rob
FWIW, my local home depot didn't have 600 grit paper, and neither did a couple of specialized paint stores.
I happened to find it at my corner hardware store. It might be best to buy it from stu mac or whereever when you're buying the micromesh and other tools.

best
Allen

Rob DiStefano · June 10th, 2008, 08:08 AM

Doesn't hafta be 600 grit, 500 works as well. Some times I'll go a step further and continue on with 1000 grit. The BEST abrasive paper by far is Klingspor - I use that in 600 and 1000 grit.

eryque · June 10th, 2008, 02:21 PM

Check the auto parts stores for higher grit sandpaper. They usually have it next to the paint and bondo.

viking · June 10th, 2008, 05:55 PM

Most of us have more than one guitar , the money spent on tools will soon be forgotten when you are doing your own fretwork , -for the rest of your life , - very rewarding ! Robs guide is really good , - highly recommended !

ScottUK · June 10th, 2008, 11:52 PM

Thanks for the help

I want to be able to do it myself (I want to know how to do this) rather than just take it to the repair guy. A friend of mine from a few years back did his own fret levelling with just an oilstone with pretty good results (he just played the guitar alot afterwards to let the strings polish the frets), do I really need all the tools?
best wishes
Scott

viking · June 11th, 2008, 02:43 AM

The only costly tools you will need is the levelling file , or radiussed sanding blocks+ crowning file. The rest is just sandpaper , steel wool etc...Off course , if you havent got them already , a set of nut files will come in handy too. After all ,the frets do get lower in the process. The Pro guys obviously use the more expensive tools , but the rest of us can get by fine with the more basic files. Take your time , read some of the guides , and youll be fine

crowden · June 11th, 2008, 10:55 AM

You'll find that, your luthiery hobby requires a lot of tools and specialty tools at that. But since your livelihood doesn't depend on them, you'll also find that you can sometimes fashion your own tools to do the job for you. As Rob stated above, you can make a notched straight edge from a drafter's square. For the fret leveling file, just ask and I am sure you will get a lot of ideas on how to make one.

Some tools just can't be fabricated or substituted and in this case, the tool is the fret crowning files. They have a concave cross section to them and there are no other types of files like them. There are basically 2 types of these files available, the ones with straight handles and blade and the ones with an offset between the handle and the blade. After using both myself, I would suggest getting type with an offset handle. When you get to the frets near where the neck joins the body, these are much more comfortable and easier to work with. Grizzly tools has a set at a fair price or you may be able to get one locally now that you know what they look like.

winny pooh · June 11th, 2008, 12:14 PM

I would add that it helps to gradually take a little more off between the 15th-21/22nd frets smoothly and gradually with the most off on the 19th-20th-21rst-22nd. This helps as you wont have a higher hump near the pickups when you add a little relief to the neck and the resulting buzz, I have done this on all my guitars and basses. This is delicate though so proceed carefully or just buy Dan Erlewine's fret book.

Mr. B · July 19th, 2008, 08:59 AM

I'll drag this thread back up rather than start a new one, since this seems like the right place for me.

I'd like to take the plunge into learning to dress frets for myself and, of course, I have a few questions.
The first and main one is regarding Rob DiStefano's 'Level and Crown' tutorial. I have no problem following and understanding the steps there, but I finished reading it thinking "Hang on, doesn't there need to be some radiusing after the levelling?" Am I missing something or wouldn't flat frets negate the point of having a radiused fretboard?
I'd be very grateful if somebody could set me straight.

Rob DiStefano · July 19th, 2008, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. B

... The first and main one is regarding Rob DiStefano's 'Level and Crown' tutorial. I have no problem following and understanding the steps there, but I finished reading it thinking "Hang on, doesn't there need to be some radiusing after the levelling?" Am I missing something or wouldn't flat frets negate the point of having a radiused fretboard?
I'd be very grateful if somebody could set me straight.

Leveling is accomplished along the radius of the frets/fingerboard. No matter how wide the leveling block, only a small part of the abrasive contacts the fret crown tops. Starting at one side of the neck, move the leveling block from the neck's nut to heel, and with each stroke move a tad closer to the other side of the neck. This protects the existing fingerboard/fret radius rather than compromise it. Compound radius fingerboards require a bit more leveling block maneuvering, but it's not as difficult as it all sounds.

hopdybob · July 19th, 2008, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. B

I'll drag this thread back up rather than start a new one, since this seems like the right place for me.

I'd like to take the plunge into learning to dress frets for myself and, of course, I have a few questions.
The first and main one is regarding Rob DiStefano's 'Level and Crown' tutorial. I have no problem following and understanding the steps there, but I finished reading it thinking "Hang on, doesn't there need to be some radiusing after the levelling?" Am I missing something or wouldn't flat frets negate the point of having a radiused fretboard?
I'd be very grateful if somebody could set me straight.

i havent read the tutorial but when you level you follow the curf of the fretboard in a way because the frets are pressed onto the fredboard radius curf.
so if your fretboard prep is good with a radiusblock and you have the frets nice put in those frets have the good radius.

Mr. B · July 19th, 2008, 09:15 AM

Brilliant, thanks a lot for the quick replies, thats cleared that right up.

Although, I'm sure I'll be back soon, with more problems.

Ricky D. · July 19th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Deleted

Vizcaster · July 19th, 2008, 12:08 PM

If the frets are worn and pits are dug out of a few, then you're really removing a lot of material in order to get them all down to where the divots were, and that requires a file or heavier sandpaper (I like to put peel-and-stick roll sandpaper on the bottom of a woodworking plane body, without the blade of course). At that point you're into territory best ventured with a pro, because they'll know before you waste your time whether you need a partial refret.

However if you're just touching up the frets on a new aftermarket neck then you probably only have one or two high frets and the rest don't need much except maybe some fall-off above the body joint. In that case it sometimes pays to use a gentler tool for leveling. I spent way too much on a diamond sharpening plate that I use for plane irons and chisels (one of the big DMT dual sided jobs), and I'm glad I found another use for it: it's large enough and flat enough to do a nice job of leveling on a new neck. They're sold in woodworking catalogs (mine is 10" long) and if you really really search you can get a coarse/fine combo instead of the fine/insanely-fine combo. You still need a crowning file and a safe-edged file to treat the edges because new necks usually have a bevel on the ends but the ends aren't dressed beyond that.

Sources for tools are Stew Mac, Luthier's Mercantile International (their wooden-handled crowning files are dual-edged, one side is coarse and one side is fine, the Stew Mac rubber handled ones are not like that), and the Martin 1833 store site. I agree about Klingspoor- great source for sandpaper of all kinds, but if you're doing a StewMac order their selection of 3M Frecut Gold can't be beat.

Oh, and practice on a garage-saler first.

Rob DiStefano · July 19th, 2008, 12:54 PM

25% deep fret divots say to me "refret" and it's a waste of money and time to L&C.

For really invasive L&C's, where the divots and flats are deep, I use a 6" single cut file first, followed up by Home Depot sandpaper in 100, 150 and 220 grits, followed by Klingspor 600 grit. If the frets aren't too bad, I just start off with the abrasive paper and the coarseness of that first grit depends again on how bad the frets are worn.

I had my levelers CNC'd at a local machine shop outta cold rolled steel, 3/4" x 2" x 8" and 11". Just the weight of these hefty chunks of metal is enough to cut nicely and all I gotta do is push in the right directions. I use 3M double stick tape for getting the 1/2" strips of abrasive on the levelers.

June 9th, 2008, 06:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
ScottUK TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster UK Age: 35 Posts: 32 4 Photos	fret levelling tips for partscaster? Hi can anyone give me some advice on levelling the frets on a new allparts neck for the partscaster I am building? It's the first time I have attempted this and I'm a bit lost here is a pic of the guitar

June 9th, 2008, 09:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
eryque Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: albany, ny [not chicago] Posts: 7,127 44 Photos	Keep in mind that in order to level & crown you really need a few specialty tools, and the cost adds up quickly. If you don't plan on doing this repeatedly, you're better off taking it to someone you trust. __________________ my blog: eryque.blogspot.com Updated 9.17.08! Subscribe_____________________

June 10th, 2008, 02:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
eryque Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: albany, ny [not chicago] Posts: 7,127 44 Photos	Check the auto parts stores for higher grit sandpaper. They usually have it next to the paint and bondo. __________________ my blog: eryque.blogspot.com Updated 9.17.08! Subscribe_____________________

June 11th, 2008, 12:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
winny pooh Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: South London Posts: 1,612 7 Photos	I would add that it helps to gradually take a little more off between the 15th-21/22nd frets smoothly and gradually with the most off on the 19th-20th-21rst-22nd. This helps as you wont have a higher hump near the pickups when you add a little relief to the neck and the resulting buzz, I have done this on all my guitars and basses. This is delicate though so proceed carefully or just buy Dan Erlewine's fret book. __________________ my afro ambient side project: http://www.myspace.com/theswyambusessions

July 19th, 2008, 12:08 PM	#19 (permalink)
Vizcaster Tele-Holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Glen Head, NY Posts: 711	If the frets are worn and pits are dug out of a few, then you're really removing a lot of material in order to get them all down to where the divots were, and that requires a file or heavier sandpaper (I like to put peel-and-stick roll sandpaper on the bottom of a woodworking plane body, without the blade of course). At that point you're into territory best ventured with a pro, because they'll know before you waste your time whether you need a partial refret. However if you're just touching up the frets on a new aftermarket neck then you probably only have one or two high frets and the rest don't need much except maybe some fall-off above the body joint. In that case it sometimes pays to use a gentler tool for leveling. I spent way too much on a diamond sharpening plate that I use for plane irons and chisels (one of the big DMT dual sided jobs), and I'm glad I found another use for it: it's large enough and flat enough to do a nice job of leveling on a new neck. They're sold in woodworking catalogs (mine is 10" long) and if you really really search you can get a coarse/fine combo instead of the fine/insanely-fine combo. You still need a crowning file and a safe-edged file to treat the edges because new necks usually have a bevel on the ends but the ends aren't dressed beyond that. Sources for tools are Stew Mac, Luthier's Mercantile International (their wooden-handled crowning files are dual-edged, one side is coarse and one side is fine, the Stew Mac rubber handled ones are not like that), and the Martin 1833 store site. I agree about Klingspoor- great source for sandpaper of all kinds, but if you're doing a StewMac order their selection of 3M Frecut Gold can't be beat. Oh, and practice on a garage-saler first. __________________ "Why don't you just make 10 louder, and make 10 be the top number, and make that a little louder?"

June 9th, 2008, 07:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Scott S Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: SW CR IA US NA PE Age: 28 Posts: 1,732	Does it buzz or fret-out when you play it? You might be able to get away with doing no work if it performs well as-is. - Scott

June 9th, 2008, 08:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
crowden Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Age: 58 Posts: 170	I used Rob DiStefano's "Level & Crown Tutorial". Go to FretTech.com, click on "Info" and you'll see the link to it.

June 10th, 2008, 07:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 62 Posts: 4,792	A pro L&C will run from $75 to $150. Learning to accomplish an L&C isn't particularly difficult, but you do need to understand the process and you will need to spend some tooling dollars ... Fingerboard and fret straight edge - $8 (24" plastic drafting T square) Leveling file, 6" - $35 (or make one from a mill bastard file) Leveling bar, 8" - $32 (or use a 9" or so wood block plane) 100, 150, 220, 600 grit abrasives - $16 at Home Depot MicroMesh abrasive kit - $45 (a must have item) Diamond 'medium' dual grit fret crowning file - $56 Fret dressing safe edge file - $13 There are some tweaks to do with some of the above tools - will tell all if you care to know. Total tooling outlay can be as much as $225, or as little as $100 (depending on what you already have or can make). Doing yer own level and crown = priceless.

June 10th, 2008, 07:49 AM	#6 (permalink)
allen st. john Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 722	Rob FWIW, my local home depot didn't have 600 grit paper, and neither did a couple of specialized paint stores. I happened to find it at my corner hardware store. It might be best to buy it from stu mac or whereever when you're buying the micromesh and other tools. best Allen

June 10th, 2008, 08:08 AM	#7 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 62 Posts: 4,792	Doesn't hafta be 600 grit, 500 works as well. Some times I'll go a step further and continue on with 1000 grit. The BEST abrasive paper by far is Klingspor - I use that in 600 and 1000 grit.

June 10th, 2008, 05:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
viking Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Denmark Age: 42 Posts: 413	Most of us have more than one guitar , the money spent on tools will soon be forgotten when you are doing your own fretwork , -for the rest of your life , - very rewarding ! Robs guide is really good , - highly recommended !

June 10th, 2008, 11:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
ScottUK TDPRI Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lancaster UK Age: 35 Posts: 32 4 Photos	Thanks for the help I want to be able to do it myself (I want to know how to do this) rather than just take it to the repair guy. A friend of mine from a few years back did his own fret levelling with just an oilstone with pretty good results (he just played the guitar alot afterwards to let the strings polish the frets), do I really need all the tools? best wishes Scott

June 11th, 2008, 02:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
viking Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Denmark Age: 42 Posts: 413	The only costly tools you will need is the levelling file , or radiussed sanding blocks+ crowning file. The rest is just sandpaper , steel wool etc...Off course , if you havent got them already , a set of nut files will come in handy too. After all ,the frets do get lower in the process. The Pro guys obviously use the more expensive tools , but the rest of us can get by fine with the more basic files. Take your time , read some of the guides , and youll be fine

June 11th, 2008, 10:55 AM	#12 (permalink)
crowden Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Age: 58 Posts: 170	You'll find that, your luthiery hobby requires a lot of tools and specialty tools at that. But since your livelihood doesn't depend on them, you'll also find that you can sometimes fashion your own tools to do the job for you. As Rob stated above, you can make a notched straight edge from a drafter's square. For the fret leveling file, just ask and I am sure you will get a lot of ideas on how to make one. Some tools just can't be fabricated or substituted and in this case, the tool is the fret crowning files. They have a concave cross section to them and there are no other types of files like them. There are basically 2 types of these files available, the ones with straight handles and blade and the ones with an offset between the handle and the blade. After using both myself, I would suggest getting type with an offset handle. When you get to the frets near where the neck joins the body, these are much more comfortable and easier to work with. Grizzly tools has a set at a fair price or you may be able to get one locally now that you know what they look like.

July 19th, 2008, 08:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
Mr. B TDPRI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canterbury - UK Posts: 23	I'll drag this thread back up rather than start a new one, since this seems like the right place for me. I'd like to take the plunge into learning to dress frets for myself and, of course, I have a few questions. The first and main one is regarding Rob DiStefano's 'Level and Crown' tutorial. I have no problem following and understanding the steps there, but I finished reading it thinking "Hang on, doesn't there need to be some radiusing after the levelling?" Am I missing something or wouldn't flat frets negate the point of having a radiused fretboard? I'd be very grateful if somebody could set me straight.

July 19th, 2008, 09:15 AM	#17 (permalink)
Mr. B TDPRI Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canterbury - UK Posts: 23	Brilliant, thanks a lot for the quick replies, thats cleared that right up. Although, I'm sure I'll be back soon, with more problems.

July 19th, 2008, 09:20 AM	#18 (permalink)
Ricky D. Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Maryland Age: 57 Posts: 908	Deleted

July 19th, 2008, 12:54 PM	#20 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 62 Posts: 4,792	25% deep fret divots say to me "refret" and it's a waste of money and time to L&C. For really invasive L&C's, where the divots and flats are deep, I use a 6" single cut file first, followed up by Home Depot sandpaper in 100, 150 and 220 grits, followed by Klingspor 600 grit. If the frets aren't too bad, I just start off with the abrasive paper and the coarseness of that first grit depends again on how bad the frets are worn. I had my levelers CNC'd at a local machine shop outta cold rolled steel, 3/4" x 2" x 8" and 11". Just the weight of these hefty chunks of metal is enough to cut nicely and all I gotta do is push in the right directions. I use 3M double stick tape for getting the 1/2" strips of abrasive on the levelers.