Neck Bolt Insert Kit

[madmark]

Has anyone ever tried these kits
http://www.onyxforgeguitars.com/Insert%20kit.html

[frunobulax30076]

I put a similar machine screw and insert set I got on ebay for $20 on a Squier strat with stripped holes.

BTW, I think you could get the inserts and screws for much less than what I paid. It's just 4 machine screws and 4 matching inserts. My kit used the existing neck plate.

It did not go as expected becuse the I had trouble getting the inserts in. I had to drill the neck holes bigger than the inserts and use epoxy to mount the inserts. After that it was fine. I just used a hand drill, so my holes were not perfect, but the epoxy allowed for perfect allignment.

The guitar only cost $80 new. If it was a nice guitar, I would have had it done professionally.

I could not tell any difference other than the neck was more secure.

[madmark]

Thanks. I do agree you can get them cheaper at a local hardware store. So you didnt notice any difference?

[tjalla]

The kit made by Vintique was one of those 'fads' that were the beez neez a few years ago round here, but talk of them has waned off...tho I'm curious if anyone still uses them and believes it adds tone/sustain.

I swap bodies and necks quite often but haven't needed these yet.

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by tjalla

The kit made by Vintique was one of those 'fads' that were the beez neez a few years ago round here, but talk of them has waned off...tho I'm curious if anyone still uses them and believes it adds tone/sustain.

I swap bodies and necks quite often but haven't needed these yet.

Trevor

We've got a different take on this.

Not a fad. A very worthwhile mod.

I don't change bodies and necks but all my guitars (apart from my relic) have this mod:



Peter

[Gareth John]

I think I read in a magazine that Brad Paisley's guitars have a machine bolt on neck. I too wondered what difference this makes, it sure sounds like a good idea to me.

[claudel]

Stainless Inserts

$10.29 per Pack of 25 + shipping

Better than brass, by far.

SS Machine screws are available in many places...

Tough to install properly, though. Easy to make a mess of it. (How does he know that? )

Some folks prefer the next smaller size, but I've used these for both guitars and basses.

[madmark]

but is there really a sound difference with them on it ? and does anyone know the specs so that i can goto home depot and just buy the stuff

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by claudel

[IMG]
Better than brass, by far.

SS Machine screws are available in many places...

Tough to install properly, though. Easy to make a mess of it. (How does he know that? )

Some folks prefer the next smaller size, but I've used these for both guitars and basses.

Yes! Good idea to have the insert in the neck made from a harder material than the screw! Turn ... getting tight ... turn ... oh no ... turn ... oh dear...

[mlp-mx6]

Originally Posted by claudel

Stainless Inserts

$10.29 per Pack of 25 + shipping

Better than brass, by far.

SS Machine screws are available in many places...

You do have to be careful about stainless galling with itself so that you cannot BUDGE the screw. It electro-chemically welds together. It's a better idea to have two different metals in this application. "Overtightening" makes the galling worse and/or more likely.

[surfoverb]

Originally Posted by madmark

but is there really a sound difference with them on it ? and does anyone know the specs so that i can goto home depot and just buy the stuff

I doubt it...I thought people only did this mod because they travel a lot and constantly remove the neck.

I've got a Glendale fat neck plate and although I don't think I have more sustain because of it I think I get a better coupling.

[Home Grown Tele]

Originally Posted by mlp-mx6

It's a better idea to have two different metals in this application.

Two different metals will cause galvanic corrosion and eventually lead to failure of the bolts. I've seen dissimilar metals rot pretty quick.

You'd probably be better off using regular steel for inserts and bolts if galling is a worry.

[madmark]

thanks gonna hit home depot and look around...

[mofugly13]

Originally Posted by Home Grown Tele

Two different metals will cause galvanic corrosion and eventually lead to failure of the bolts. I've seen dissimilar metals rot pretty quick.

You'd probably be better off using regular steel for inserts and bolts if galling is a worry.

Luckily, stainless is non-reactive. I think it would be just fine to use these inserts with hardened steel screws. But I ain't no engineer, heck, I've wouldn't know the first thing about operating a locomotive...

[reddogbass]

I've done a couple necks with the inserts. It can be problematic, and I ain't particularly challenged when it comes to this sort of thing.

Firstly, these inserts are made for improving the clamping force in softwood. Maple is not soft, and it takes a bit of coercing to get these threaded into the maple. The "threads" on these things are rather large and displace a lot of wood. If you drill the hole to match the core, they go in hard. If you drill it larger so the threads aren't displacing so much wood, you compromise the joint.

The first one I did, I drilled the hole to match the core. Even with the correct sized screwdriver, I managed to peel the "ears" off around the slot before they were flush with the surface. No biggie- I just filed them flush with the neck.

The second one I did... I took one of the inserts and slotted it so it looked like a tap, and used it like a tap. This made threads in the neck holes- then I drove the inserts in. That worked.

I should mention the inserts I used had a slot for insertion to take a straight blade screwdriver. There are inserts out there that use a different method (like the hex bit type shown in the photo above). But they ain't going in any better- just too much hardwood that needs to be displaced. And there is no such thing as a tap in that thread type.

If I ever use inserts on a neck again I'll use an insert developed for use in aluminum (Keenserts is one brand.). They have a US thread size so one can tap the hole.

On the other hand, there isn't any reason the hole should ever become stripped in the first place. Don't just run the screw into the wood. When "re-inserting" a screw, run it CCW until you feel you engage the original threads- then tighten. You'll never cross-thread or strip another woodscrew connection.

And.. I couldn't tell any difference in the neck to body connection regardless of the fastener type. Good mating surfaces between the neck and body are key. Any fastening type will pull these joints together as much as the wood will allow.

That's my two-bits.

[lostpick]

Cant you just use fatter screws
to get a tighter pull?

[madmark]

from i read sounds like a if it aint broke then dont fix it..

[mlp-mx6]

One of the best ways to drive them in is to have a matching bolt with 2 nuts jammed together as a driver. Chuck this in your drill press and mount the insert to the bottom. (You would have sawn off the head of the bolt.)

Make sure everything is square, then lower the quill as you turn the chuck by hand. You take it as low as you need to with this approach, then back out the bolt and you're done, unless you need to lower the insert a bit more.

Let me know if this does not make sense.

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by madmark

but is there really a sound difference with them on it ?

To be honest, I'm not sure. All my Fender-style guitars have this mod fitted (apart from my Broadie which has the original #8 x 2in slotted screws fitted) and they've all got great sustain and are easy to maintain. Taking the neck on and off is easy, which doesn't happen very often.

Bill Kirchen uses this mod as he travels a lot with his Telecasters and takes the neck off to make flying with his guitar easier.

It will be a mod on my next project - a baritone - but for the record my Broadie is my best playing guitar I own using the old slotted wood screws.

You pays your money and makes your choice.

Peter

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by PeterUK

Trevor

We've got a different take on this.

Not a fad. A very worthwhile mod.

I don't change bodies and necks but all my guitars (apart from my relic) have this mod:



Peter

Oops! All I meant by 'fad' is that it was a hot topic for a while (ages back) and has since dropped off. Not by any means saying it doesn't work, just under the radar - and this goes for many things round here, eg heavy neckplates, titanium saddles.

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by tjalla

Oops! All I meant by 'fad' is that it was a hot topic for a while (ages back) and has since dropped off. Not by any means saying it doesn't work, just under the radar - and this goes for many things round here, eg heavy neckplates, titanium saddles.

Trevor

No offence taken my friend.

Peter

[Mark Davis]

Back in the 90's when the Vintique sruff was available and popular I know a guy that did this to 5 of his Teles.

He said 1 of them sounded better and the other 4 sounded the same.

[blacklinefish]

Originally Posted by PeterUK

Bill Kirchen uses this mod as he travels a lot with his Telecasters and takes the neck off to make flying with his guitar easier.

What an advantage over acoustics and set-neck electrics! If I had to fly with a guitar I would also have a custom case made that holds the guitar in its disconnected state.

--gh

[Westerly Sunn]

Originally Posted by mlp-mx6

One of the best ways to drive them in is to have a matching bolt with 2 nuts jammed together as a driver. Chuck this in your drill press and mount the insert to the bottom. (You would have sawn off the head of the bolt.)

Make sure everything is square, then lower the quill as you turn the chuck by hand. You take it as low as you need to with this approach, then back out the bolt and you're done, unless you need to lower the insert a bit more.

Let me know if this does not make sense.

Woodcraft offers matching t-handle drivers with their inserts... Just a threaded rod to fit insert with a T-rod at top. Thread insert on rod and drive the insert home. I would imagine that this would still be difficult at best when "home" is embedded in a piece of rock maple...

[graham232]

I have had this done by Bernie Goodfellow to my main Strat. This guitar gets gigged every weekend and I took it to him when the strings went out of alignment. He said it was "stratitus" and promptly snapped the neck back into place (I nearly passed out, he did it over his knee!). I had him do the mod for me when he re-fretted it. The only thing that I do not like is that he used hex bolts and they look a bit "industrial". I must get round to replacing them someday.

Since I wanted this guitar to be bomb proof it seems like a good mod. It may have helped the sustain a little but it already has a Callaham block and titanium saddles so was not exactly lacking.

[PeterUK]

Another UK source is Steve Robinson, aka The Manchester Guitar Tech.

Steve did the one in the picture above - I recall it was his first - and since then he offers it as a service. He did that one and a Strat for me.

Good guy and great work.

From his website:



Steve also offers fitting instructions here.

Peter

[rhomco]

removed.

[fauxhican]

Has anyone seen these "bolt-in" necks? I know they're not oem tele parts, just curious how they work.http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/...ntingMyths.htm

[Stan Martin]

Originally Posted by tjalla

The kit made by Vintique was one of those 'fads' that were the beez neez a few years ago round here, but talk of them has waned off...tho I'm curious if anyone still uses them and believes it adds tone/sustain.

I swap bodies and necks quite often but haven't needed these yet.

The Vintique neck kit and I will say to me it works as advertised. Better coupling/resonance. YMMV as always

[DustyJr]

If you arent going to be removing the neck a lot, there is a po' boy mod that gives good results and is somewhat similar. Put the water thin type of superglue into the neck holes and swirl it around with a toothpick. Add a couple of coats as needed, let dry, and screw the neck back on. It makes the neck very snug and keeps the threads from deteriorating.

[claudel]

Originally Posted by Stan Martin

The Vintique neck kit and I will say to me it works as advertised. Better coupling/resonance. YMMV as always

I bought the Vintique kit too, the first time.

Then I figured out it was ~$5.oo worth of easily obtainable parts....

None the less, I like this feature and have added it to all my semi-homemade instruments.

Guitars and bass.

Definitely agree with "improved acoustic coupling and resonance", at least in the ones I have...

[Little Nip]

The Vintique kit was/is simply a McMaster Carr threaded insert (not the stainless one in the link above) and 10/24 stainless bolts. The Woodcraft and stainless McMaster inserts are very difficult to use in maple. Inserts with a machine thread on the outside and inside (like those used in the Vintique kit) allow threads to be cut with a tap, carefully and accurately, in the neck holes prior to driving the insert.

[keithcc]

Originally Posted by Little Nip

The Vintique kit was/is simply a McMaster Carr threaded insert (not the stainless one in the link above) and 10/24 stainless bolts. The Woodcraft and stainless McMaster inserts are very difficult to use in maple. Inserts with a machine thread on the outside and inside (like those used in the Vintique kit) allow threads to be cut with a tap, carefully and accurately, in the neck holes prior to driving the insert.

Do you know the part numbers or at least the threads inside and out and the length?

Also it looks like the Vintique neck plate has stepped instead of tapered counterbore holes. Are the bolts the same as the woodscrews or is a custom plate needed?

[PeterUK]

Originally Posted by keithcc

Do you know the part numbers or at least the threads inside and out and the length?

Also it looks like the Vintique neck plate has stepped instead of tapered counterbore holes. Are the bolts the same as the woodscrews or is a custom plate needed?

You might get all the info you need from one of the members here. Chet Johnson sells a kit via the Classifieds. See here.

Hope this helps.

Peter

[tjalla]

Here's irony for ya... I forgot I had posted in this thread, then a friend orders a set so I say "get on for me while you're at it", so I install it (works great, btw) and then this thread pops up and there's me posting about it. Some sorta premonition haha.

Anycase, really easy to install... I'm hopeless with woodworking, but even for me it was a 10min job. Feels great to crank the the neck nice and firm. No I didn't notice and extra tone/sustain due to coupling etc, but as and when I fly I know I can take this neck on and off repeatedly, no sweat.

[Little Nip]

The Vintique neck plate that I got (against all odds) had regular countersunk holes for oval or flat head machine screws.

[Chet Johnson]

The machine screws have approx 400lb of clamping power. Wood screws cannot match it. I've installed inserts in some guitars that I had for years, and was AMAZED by the sustain gain with the inserts.

I will not mount ant of my necks with wood screws anymore.

I use inserts in everything that I build now.

It is nice to not have any worries with stripping with necks removed often, but the primary gain is the sustain.

[dantonel]

Originally Posted by madmark

from i read sounds like a if it aint broke then dont fix it..

+1 Dang Skippy!

[Doug 54]

Before Vintique had their 'shameless steal' era-
they installed neck inserts in my Strat:
It truly 'rang' a bit better