4 way wiring help

acoustic · May 14th, 2008, 06:45 PM

As a rookie on the forum I posted this by mistake in the general discussion board...I repost it here and thank the responder who suggested I check this forum!

Greetings,

I have a partscaster which has the standard pickup setup in it. I wish to put a 4 way tele switch in,

I currently have a cap on the bridge pup at the switch to warm up that pickup a little.

The question - I assume when I install the 4 way switch that the cap will also affect the neck pup in the series position(?). Would there be any workaround that would prevent this? I would like to accomplish this without any additional switches/etc.

Any ideas are VERY much appreciated!

Thanks!

Deaf Eddie · May 15th, 2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

The question - I assume when I install the 4 way switch that the cap will also affect the neck pup in the series position(?).

Correct. In fact, it may affect the neck pup in parallel as well (no pic, can't be certain) as it PROBABLY does now.

edit: actually, I'm probably WRONG. It would be easy to have a cap that is only in the circuit on the bridge-only throw. EB

Quote:

Would there be any workaround that would prevent this? I would like to accomplish this without any additional switches/etc.

No.

acoustic · May 15th, 2008, 02:06 PM

Thanks for the reply. I was afraid of that...would have been way too easy! Would there be anyway of putting a cap in to affect only the bridge pup with a 4 way switch - perhaps only in the bridge switch position?

Again, thank you ...

Deaf Eddie · May 15th, 2008, 03:06 PM

Show us/tell us how the cap is wired now, and we'll all take a stab at it.

In any case, I base this post on the ASSSumption that you simply have the cap with a leg on the bridge-end lug of one pole of the the 3-way - the one that is connected to hot when the bridge pup is selected - and its other leg on ground. That would do what you described, pull a little high-end off of the bridge-only throw. And, wired that way, it would only affect the bridge-only throw, NOT the both/parallel throw as I assumed in my previous post. My bad...

Now, let's look at the 4-way wiring scheme:

As you can see, we can't use the other pole to connect the cap to hot in the bridge-only throw, as the other pole now runs the neck pup's negative (aka "ground") lead. So, that's out.

Can't use the 4-way to run it to ground, either, as the neck pup's negative lead MUST BE lifted from ground for the bridge-only tone to work.

NEXT, if you wired the cap straight to the lug WITH the bridge pup's hot (and the other leg on ground), it would mellow the bridge pup as with your 3-way scheme, AND mellow the both/parallel throw. Maybe that's OK... nothing can be done about it with the scheme as-is.

No effect on the neck only throw, so that's OK.

When you go to the series throw, the bridge-cap will again have some affect.
How much? Geez, will you even hear it? I dunno - heck, try it and see.

If the bridge-cap makes the series combo too dark to your ear, you could try adding ANOTHER cap, but this one will be replacing the jumper that goes across the switch to make the series connection - it looks like the black "S" in the drawing. That second cap will block some bass from the bridge pup in just the series combo, and that should thin or brighten the series tone. What value? Again, I dunno - but start with what you have on hand, the typical .047uF Tele or .022uF Gibson "tone" cap values might be a good place to start. Your ear will tell you if you need to take the value up or down - or, if this second cap idea is even gonna work for you.

acoustic · May 15th, 2008, 07:32 PM

Let me first say THANK YOU for responding in such an in depth manner! I appreciate your time in helping me with this (not to mention that you know what you are doing-unlike myself).

I think I'll (as you suggested) just rehook the cap and see if it darkens the neck too much in the "both" throws. I figure I can temper it with amp eq as long as the neck-bridge contrast isn't too great. I'm trying to avoid the relentless tone control adjusting if possible.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Again, thanks for the insight and information!

acoustic · May 15th, 2008, 07:35 PM

Deaf Eddie,

Forgot to acknowledge...yes I have it wired just as you assumed. Also the idea with the additional cap is great!

Thanks so Much!

May 14th, 2008, 06:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
acoustic NEW MEMBER! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Akron,Ohio Posts: 6	4 way wiring help As a rookie on the forum I posted this by mistake in the general discussion board...I repost it here and thank the responder who suggested I check this forum! Greetings, I have a partscaster which has the standard pickup setup in it. I wish to put a 4 way tele switch in, I currently have a cap on the bridge pup at the switch to warm up that pickup a little. The question - I assume when I install the 4 way switch that the cap will also affect the neck pup in the series position(?). Would there be any workaround that would prevent this? I would like to accomplish this without any additional switches/etc. Any ideas are VERY much appreciated! Thanks!

May 15th, 2008, 02:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
acoustic NEW MEMBER! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Akron,Ohio Posts: 6	Thanks Thanks for the reply. I was afraid of that...would have been way too easy! Would there be anyway of putting a cap in to affect only the bridge pup with a 4 way switch - perhaps only in the bridge switch position? Again, thank you ...

May 15th, 2008, 03:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
Deaf Eddie Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,140 14 Photos	Let's see why: Show us/tell us how the cap is wired now, and we'll all take a stab at it. In any case, I base this post on the ASSSumption that you simply have the cap with a leg on the bridge-end lug of one pole of the the 3-way - the one that is connected to hot when the bridge pup is selected - and its other leg on ground. That would do what you described, pull a little high-end off of the bridge-only throw. And, wired that way, it would only affect the bridge-only throw, NOT the both/parallel throw as I assumed in my previous post. My bad... Now, let's look at the 4-way wiring scheme: As you can see, we can't use the other pole to connect the cap to hot in the bridge-only throw, as the other pole now runs the neck pup's negative (aka "ground") lead. So, that's out. Can't use the 4-way to run it to ground, either, as the neck pup's negative lead MUST BE lifted from ground for the bridge-only tone to work. NEXT, if you wired the cap straight to the lug WITH the bridge pup's hot (and the other leg on ground), it would mellow the bridge pup as with your 3-way scheme, AND mellow the both/parallel throw. Maybe that's OK... nothing can be done about it with the scheme as-is. No effect on the neck only throw, so that's OK. When you go to the series throw, the bridge-cap will again have some affect. How much? Geez, will you even hear it? I dunno - heck, try it and see. If the bridge-cap makes the series combo too dark to your ear, you could try adding ANOTHER cap, but this one will be replacing the jumper that goes across the switch to make the series connection - it looks like the black "S" in the drawing. That second cap will block some bass from the bridge pup in just the series combo, and that should thin or brighten the series tone. What value? Again, I dunno - but start with what you have on hand, the typical .047uF Tele or .022uF Gibson "tone" cap values might be a good place to start. Your ear will tell you if you need to take the value up or down - or, if this second cap idea is even gonna work for you. __________________ YMMV - I been wrong before...

May 15th, 2008, 07:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
acoustic NEW MEMBER! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Akron,Ohio Posts: 6	Wow! Let me first say THANK YOU for responding in such an in depth manner! I appreciate your time in helping me with this (not to mention that you know what you are doing-unlike myself). I think I'll (as you suggested) just rehook the cap and see if it darkens the neck too much in the "both" throws. I figure I can temper it with amp eq as long as the neck-bridge contrast isn't too great. I'm trying to avoid the relentless tone control adjusting if possible. I'll let you know how it goes. Again, thanks for the insight and information! __________________ "The Only Thing For Certain - Is That Nothing Stays The Same."

May 15th, 2008, 07:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
acoustic NEW MEMBER! Join Date: May 2008 Location: Akron,Ohio Posts: 6	addendum Deaf Eddie, Forgot to acknowledge...yes I have it wired just as you assumed. Also the idea with the additional cap is great! Thanks so Much! __________________ "The Only Thing For Certain - Is That Nothing Stays The Same."