Preval Spray info

[Old Cane]

I think I spelled it right. Anyway, I have some question for you guys that use these. First, do they work well?

I guess my next question involves paint mixing. I've laway used spray cans for bodies and necks but thought I'd like to try mixing. What sort of formula do you use for nitro lacquer like for thinner or reducer or......? Is it hit and miss to mix colors?

I see a couple of brands in wordwoorker.com and stew-mac. So, can someone walk me through what you do when you shoot, say, Fiesta Red or Butterscotch Blonde or Surf Green?

I need people that talk real slow to explain stuff. Don't assume I know anything but my own name. I need steps like:

1) open the can
2) pour into bottle
3) add 2 drops white dye to 4 oz clear


something along those lines.

Thanks.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

I think I spelled it right. Anyway, I have some question for you guys that use these. First, do they work well?

I guess my next question involves paint mixing. I've laway used spray cans for bodies and necks but thought I'd like to try mixing. What sort of formula do you use for nitro lacquer like for thinner or reducer or......? Is it hit and miss to mix colors?

I see a couple of brands in wordwoorker.com and stew-mac. So, can someone walk me through what you do when you shoot, say, Fiesta Red or Butterscotch Blonde or Surf Green?

I need people that talk real slow to explain stuff. Don't assume I know anything but my own name. I need steps like:

1) open the can
2) pour into bottle
3) add 2 drops white dye to 4 oz clear


something along those lines.

Thanks.

I can't help with the solid color formulas, but I have used a Preval on two projects. Although I've heard some negative things about them, I did get excellent results. The first project was a lefty Dano '59 copy with a mahogany top and alder back. I think I thinned the lacquer to about 4:1 when I sprayed. I colored it using red TransTint dye. No specific formula there - I just added drops until It was spraying "red enough" on my test board. I went really dark on the back..it's actually a dark cherry burst.

I'm using the Preval again to spray Hood Products sanding sealer on a swamp ash tele body. This stuff is thick, so I pulled the strainer off the bottom of the suction tube and added very little thinner. The Preval can barely spray the stuff, but I have managed to seal the grain in two coats. ;)

[Old Cane]

That's a great start, thanks. I hadn't thought about using it for S&S.

I kind of figured on the colors you'd just eyeball it until it looked right. How much did you mix at a time? Is that an 8oz bottle it uses? I'm not sure how much I would use for a body coat. I was wondering if you mix 8oz and use 2oz or so for one coat can you leave the mix sit for a few hours until you get all of it sprayed? Can you leave it for days?

[RodeoTex]

I'd just like to know where to buy a Preval unit. I searched ebay for it and only came up with some adult diapers (Grampers).

[jwc5]

Automotive paint stores, Hobby Lobby, Woodcraft, Stew Mac (I think) and several others carry this unit as well as replacement cartridges.

[pchilson]

I've seen them at Woodcraft and Home Depot

[spankdplank]

I have used Prevals on at least six builds and am using them on a champaigne pink metal flake build right now. Typically, I use Tintsal universal pigments mixed with Deft gloss lacquer, no formula, just until the color is what I want. Then I thin it with lacquer thinner until it will suck up into the straw and shoot smoothly without spitting, but not too thin (see pink esquire in my photo gallery). You will be able feel it when its right. Auto parts stores tend to have the best prices, less than $4 for a propellant can and less than $5 for propellant can with glass paint mixing/spraying bottle. The Preval propellant can will have a plastic straw with a plastic filter tip. You can take this tip off and shoot small diameter metal flakes with these units (see seafoam sparklecaster in my photo gallery) with excellant results. Also, rather than using rattle can Deft, I like to top coat with quart cans of Deft thinned a little and shot through a Preval. The Deft cans say it is not for spraying, but it works fine. Using this method the top coat builds much faster than rattle can Deft and does a better job of covering the flakes. Unfortunately, I don't have any formulas or ratios, but you will get a feel for how little or how much thinner/pigment/Deft to use. It's really pretty easy.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

That's a great start, thanks. I hadn't thought about using it for S&S.

I kind of figured on the colors you'd just eyeball it until it looked right. How much did you mix at a time? Is that an 8oz bottle it uses? I'm not sure how much I would use for a body coat. I was wondering if you mix 8oz and use 2oz or so for one coat can you leave the mix sit for a few hours until you get all of it sprayed? Can you leave it for days?

8oz sounds right. I mixed about 6oz at the most. I kept a small mixing cup filled with lacquer thinner nearby when spraying. After applying a coat I would remove the jar and dip the spray tube into the thinner, shooting the thinner for about 15 seconds. I put the lid on the unused portion until it was time to spray again. I did in fact have a mix sitting indoors for a few days. I just shook it up good and screwed the sprayer back on. No problems.

[Old Cane]

Great news. thanks guys. So I just mix until it looks right. That's what I figured. If you mix 6oz at a time and want say a Mary Kay or Butterscoth are we talking drops or teaspoons (of color) to start with? And I guess I'll ask the same about an opaque finish. Do you just get the color you want and then thin it way out if you want transpararent? and thicker if opaque?

So I start with lacquer and tint, get the shade I want and then thin it if needed. Sound right? Is 4:1 really thin? Do you ever go thinner? I realize it's probably a line you find wiht your own methods and equipment. I'm just looking for a crash course on where to start.

One last thing; is there some sort of mixing chart to show what color tints make what colors? I was never good at a color wheel. I even worked in a print shop and had to have someone tell me what to add to get the right color. I could never say "oh, it needs more orange" or brown or yellow to get the right shade.

This has all been very helpful. Keep the tips coming!

[reddogbass]

I'm not sure it matters on something as small as a guitar body, where a complete coat can be sprayed with one cupfull... but we always mixed enough color so that each cupfull was guaranteed to be the same tint as the last, and there was always enough left over for future touch-ups.

[spankdplank]

The Tintsall pigments I use are like toothpaste, so a little goes a long way. They do not make a white pigment that I have found, so I asked my local hardware store to squirt some white pigment from their paint mixing machine into a jar and I use that to mix with the Tintsall and deft to get the color right, as white is a component in some amount in most colors. Pratt & Lambert brand from my hardware store, but I think all the pigments in hardware store mixing machines are universal and will mix with any binding medium. Again, I have no formulas or ratios, just eyeballing it. For opaque, or a white blonde finish, just use less pigment. It is better to go with multiple coats with just a little pigment and build the opacity slowly. There is a 50's style white blonde in my photo gallery that was done with a Preval, but the photos don't show the wood grain as much as in real life. My two cents, just dive in and don't worry about precise formulas. It is not that hard and you will be able to tell when the color and consistency is right. Good luck.

[fivenote]

For mixing recipes, check out Dan Erlewine's Guitar Finishing book. He details recipes for all the common finishes, talks about spraying technique, aerosol cans, prevals, etc...

[AnthemBassMan]

-I haven't seen Preval spray units for awhile, but I think Ace Hardware also carries them.

L8R,
Matt D.

[Old Cane]

Originally Posted by fivenote

For mixing recipes, check out Dan Erlewine's Guitar Finishing book. He details recipes for all the common finishes, talks about spraying technique, aerosol cans, prevals, etc...

I had considered this but I hoped maybe somebody could post either standard starting points for a couple of colors. I'm sure I'll buy the book in the future but right now I'd just like to know for say Butterscotch Blonde, Fiesta Red and seafoam Green. I'm guessing surf is just more white than seafoam.

[Beatbx]

I tried them and had nothing but problems with weak spray. Maybe the lacquer was too thick, but for pretty much the same price I prefer spray bombs.

[Old Cane]

You're going to have to tell me what spray bombs are. Cans?

[pauldogx]

Prevals are great---but they can freeze up if you are using them for an extended spray(probably wont have a prob on the neck---but maybe on a body or set neck). I like to keep an extra propellant can handy when using them in case the one I'm using gets cold and starts to spit.

[Beatbx]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

You're going to have to tell me what spray bombs are. Cans?

yep.

[e-merlin]

Originally Posted by RodeoTex

I'd just like to know where to buy a Preval unit. I searched ebay for it and only came up with some adult diapers (Grampers).

Ace hardware, right next to the Minwax.

[AnthemBassMan]

-Also if you're going to do a few guitars, you could head to you local Harbor Freight and pick up a cheap little air compressor and a small gravity feed gun. Kind of like an oversized airbrush that hold a little over 1 pint of paint.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95275
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91009

L8R,
Matt D.

[Old Cane]

I have one of these little compressors and a big one too. And even a paint gun but i do like the looks of this gravity feed. Mixing and getting the color right is still going to be my downfall I bet.

Has anybody got any ratios? Is that how it's mixed?

[Old Cane]

Ok, let's go a differnt direction. What spray cans (besides Reranch) do you use for Fender type colors that are pretty close?

I'm going to build:

Blonde or Butterscotch blonde (or MK white)
Fiesta red
Coral (salmon)
Copper metallic
Surf green

I guess I'd like to know if I use Behlen cans should I stick with the same brand clear or can I use Deft? Watco? What if I use Krylon or Rustoleum colors?

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Ok, let's go a differnt direction. What spray cans (besides Reranch) do you use for Fender type colors that are pretty close?

I'm going to build:

Blonde or Butterscotch blonde (or MK white)
Fiesta red
Coral (salmon)
Copper metallic
Surf green

I guess I'd like to know if I use Behlen cans should I stick with the same brand clear or can I use Deft? Watco? What if I use Krylon or Rustoleum colors?

Check out a Mohawk catalog. I think they have a whitewash that could work for a MK.
Krylon has a red that's pretty close to Fiesta.
I've had no problems using Acrylic lacquer as the color coat( Krylon, Duplicolor touch-up cans) and nitro for the clear.
I've mixed clear nitro brands with no adverse effects - VHT, Watco, Mohawk and Reranch so far..

[shoretyus]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

i do like the looks of this gravity feed. Mixing and getting the color right is still going to be my downfall I bet.

Has anybody got any ratios? Is that how it's mixed?

I have an expensive version of that gun.

Pros and Cons to them.
Cons:
I don't like them in a cabinet.
I don't always clean my gun between sprays. Especially cabinet doors where I am going to spray in the next hour. The guns shoots cleans still but the top of the pot sticks to the base and is a royal pain to remove.

They are a hard to clean.

Pros:
Replaceable pots.
They pots take a liner. Perfect for colours. Just throw the liner away.



That Harbour Freight gun as a pretty big nozzle though. Mine is around 1.2 mm.

[Stuco]

Prevals work very well generally. I've had a couple that got "air leaks" or something and quit working properly.