Bridge Question

[mgallagh]

Hi All,
I have an AM Dlx and was wondering if a three saddle bridge is better or is it just "retro". It seems that it is popular to go backwards, the 50's 60's setups. Are they really better or is it just for the vintage sound? I am not a professional guitar builder but to me a 6 saddle bridge would seem like a great improvement or maybe not. Interested in hearing your comments.
Mike

[jwells393]

Putting a three-saddle vintage bridge on an American Deluxe is not a simple modification. String through holes are in a different location and the mounting screw pattern is different. I'd leave it alone.

[ReddRanger]

Originally Posted by mgallagh

Hi All,
I have an AM Dlx and was wondering if a three saddle bridge is better or is it just "retro". It seems that it is popular to go backwards, the 50's 60's setups. Are they really better or is it just for the vintage sound? I am not a professional guitar builder but to me a 6 saddle bridge would seem like a great improvement or maybe not. Interested in hearing your comments.
Mike

Better is subjective. They do offer different things tonally. As to which is better, it really boils down to individual opinion and preference. I've played great teles with both types of bridges.

I did swap the 6 saddle bridge on my MIM standard for a Fender vintage plate with Glendale saddles. I really like it and have no plans to switch back.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by mgallagh

Hi All,
It seems that it is popular to go backwards

I think it was just the opposite. The bridge design was modified numerous times, mostly made worse over time if you ask me. Changes that were made to demonstrate to the market that "progress" was being made. And for the longest time the original design could not be resuscitated simply because it was "a step backwards" and that was unacceptable, an obvious admission that subsequent owners of Fender were inferior to the originator.

The persistance of the "modern" bridge design and unnecessarily thin necks is proof that some people can't go back to basics no matter what the circumstances.

[mgallagh]

Originally Posted by jwells393

Putting a three-saddle vintage bridge on an American Deluxe is not a simple modification. String through holes are in a different location and the mounting screw pattern is different. I'd leave it alone.

It looks like Callaham makes one.

[ReddRanger]

Originally Posted by mgallagh

It looks like Callaham makes one.

Callham makes nice products. However, that plate will be longer than an original vintage spec plate, and I believe a little thicker as well. I'm not at all saying that makes it bad, but those are differences.

That would be an option if you wanted to experement with a 3 saddle type of bridge over a modern bridge screw layout without heavy modification.

[Old Cane]

I have the Callaham American. It's a direct replacement for the flat bridge that comes on these. It has 3 brass saddles and sounds great. I don't think it's any thicker than the one that came on it whcih i think is quite a bit thicker than the vintage type. I like the brass better than the 6 cast saddles. They are compnsated so they set up almost like 6 saddles do. I agree that 6 seems like it should be better. It's an intonation thing, it just sounds better with the brass. Now 6 brass saddles? I think that'd be a toss up.

[jwells393]

Originally Posted by mgallagh

It looks like Callaham makes one.

I don't consider the Callaham American replacement bridge to be a vintage style bridge.

[pbenn]

Imperfection has its own beauty.... I like the three-saddle for the fixed intonation pairs. All (Most?) classic '50s and '60s Tele parts on record have that fixed-pair intonation component.

Les Paul Jr.'s, Specials, and early Goldtops have an even cruder fixed intonation, and they have made some classic-sounding records.

[jazztele]

glendale does it too. not cheap, but what was supposed to be a more cosmetic mod to my am. std ended up injecting a lot of spark into the guitar...really livened up the overall sound of the instrument.





is it a true vintage replacement? no. but if it makes you like the guitar more, and hence play it more, that's only a good thing in my book.

[hockey_head]

INTONATIONS per string is obviously the big improvement for the six saddle story esp. that darned b string IMO. but the vibe?tone of the 3 saddle is vintage. what do you want.....is it important that chord voicings ring true one octave+ up from nut, or do you want to chord up to the like 7th fret and noodle every where else? that's what it comes down to for me.
I find that with the 3 saddle bridges i've encountered (and most acoustic bridges), I'm pretty satisfied by tuning the b string 3 to 5 cents flat and living with it, but i like the six saddle bridge as long as it strings thru the body.
also i wish all guitars came with a zero fret

[bug music]

I've got the Callaham on my AmStd, and far as intonation goes the Callaham slanted brass saddles are dead on with .010-.046 strings.

- Jay

[jwells393]

I've never actually seen a Glendale American bridge but seeing jazztele's picture brought up a question. I wonder why he makes them so long. Look at the distance between the back lip and the saddles. Looks to me like he could have made them shorter and used shorter screws. Seems like the back lip could be just behind the mounting screws. There would still be adequate room for intonation. The only reason I can think of is the original bridge leaves indentations in the finish which would show with a shorter replacement.

......

[mgallagh]

My stock bridge is about that long in the back. The mounting screws are behind the string holes and with the barrel saddles it does look a little long.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by jwells393

The only reason I can think of is the original bridge leaves indentations in the finish which would show with a shorter replacement.

......

Yeah, my 2004 Am Se has got some indentations from the strip of padding they applied under there. Not bad. My other 3 Am Ses are "clean".

Still, I did my best last year to convince Glen to do the new version shorter. I failed.

Another possible concern I forgot to mention before. As long as one is a lot longer than the other, the chance of people getting them mixed up is really minor. The more "correct" in shape any revised version is, the more certain it is that people will end up with the wrong product and be very upset.

I agree with Jack; if it is going on my guitar, it needs to be shorter. Make it an 1/8th wider as well and eliminate that last 7/16ths inch, and I'm in.

It might make a cool top loader at that length as well. No worry about the ends of the ball end string bindings reaching the saddle break, right?

[jazztele]

Originally Posted by jwells393

The only reason I can think of is the original bridge leaves indentations in the finish which would show with a shorter replacement.
[/IMG]

i think that's it.

with a natural finish, you'd never notice.
i thought it looked a little weird at first, but i got used to it--and it's so nice to be able to feel that lip when i'm playing, really helps me know where my hand's at.

[yegbert]

Originally Posted by jwells393

I wonder why he makes them so long. Look at the distance between the back lip and the saddles. Looks to me like he could have made them shorter and used shorter screws. Seems like the back lip could be just behind the mounting screws. There would still be adequate room for intonation. The only reason I can think of is the original bridge leaves indentations in the finish which would show with a shorter replacement.

I agree, keeping finish wrinkles hidden is the most likely suspect.

Maybe Dale thought the longer area below the screws helps keep the whole plate flat on the body. Although I don't think that's a significant factor myself. He made the plate stiffer to begin with which does a lot to mitigate the plate not staying flat, and he could have added two screw holes up at the neck end for stability if needed.

I think the American Standard spec location of the screw holes puts them just a little too far down on the body, for a bridge the exact length of the vintage spec to be able to use them. You might be able to pull it off designing for a body insert with machine screw threads and using a machine screw with a rather small head, which would allow you to get those screws in the bridge plate corners. Making a hybrid bridge just slightly longer than the vintage spec would have been a feasible design compromise, IMHO.

I'd like to see more competition in the way of hybrid bridge plate production. Maybe it's just a matter of time before a company with the ability to produce plates where labor is cheaper, makes some less expensive alternatives.

Maybe even make some that fit the current production Squier Standard screw hole pattern.

Or maybe someone will make some general purpose, bridge "blanks" that don't have any mounting screw, intonation screw or string through holes anywhere, and that are long enough to have holes drilled wherever needed to be made into replacements to fit Teles of various specifications.

[mgallagh]

Thanks to everyone who answered. I decided that the deluxe Tele was not the sound I was looking for thou it is a great guitar it just didn't seem to have the twang I wanted so I returned it and got a 52 RI. This has the spank I wanted.

[boris bubbanov]

That AV 52 is great guitar.

I'm sure you'll get lots of enjoyment from it.

Congrats.