Finalizing a maple neck lacquer job?

[crowden]

OK, I have put 20 coats of lacquer on an unfinished Allparts neck - applying 4 coats sanding with 320 grit, repeat (more coats on the headstock face and the decal outline still shows :/ ).

I used Minwax Clear Aerosol Lacquer (gloss) instead of Deft as I had read that the Minwax lacquer may contain fewer platisizers. I am pretty happy with the results so far and I assume that I should wait about 5 days now for the lacquer to harden and gas off a bit before mounting it, leveling/crowning the frets and installing the nut.

However, I am not quite sure as to how to go about the final finishing of the neck. The final coat of lacquer has just the slightest hint of microscopic "orange peel" so I am wondering what abrasives to use to get the finish to a smooth semi-gloss (not satin) face.

I have the following abrasives:

* 320, 400, 600, 800 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.

* 600, 1200, 4000, 6000 grit 3M Flexible Polishing Papers

* #0000 steel wool

* automotive polishing compound.

So, what is the procedure from this here - at what grit would be a good starting point? Should I wait the 5 days before going any further?

I'm sorry if this is something that should be intuitive or a no-brainer but, I would just like to know what those that have the experience of doing this many, many times do to cap off the job and get it right.

Thanks

[jwells393]

I wouldn't have sanded between every four lacquer coats. I only sand out pet hairs and dust nibs with 400 paper. Since you sanded, your 20 coats wouldn't be a thick as my 20 coats.

None the less, I'd probably start wet sanding with 600 or 800 paper. I'm not familiar with the 3M Flexible Polishing Paper and how they relate to wet sandpaper. I move up through 1500 or 2000 wet sandpaper and poliish with polishing compound. This gives a very glossy finish. You may find you have the semi-gloss look you want after use of one of your 3-M Polishing Papers.

Don't get water into the tuner holes. It can cause the wood to swell. You can carefully feather sand around the decal but it is going to have a raised look.

[Old Cane]

Yeah, what he said. I understand the desire to sand every 4 coats. Do you read hotrod magazines, too? I always heard to do that when painting cars. If you are dry sanding with 320 you probably removed 3 of the 4 coats. That's fine, just expensive.

I did a about 10 coats and had terrible orange peel. I waited a week, wet sanded with 400 and 600 and shot a couple more coats. The new coats are glassy since I sanded. What I would do is wait a couple of weeks or a month (or 6). Wait as long as you can in other words. I would just polish by hand and not worry about sanding anything but a really really rough spot.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by crowden

I used Minwax Clear Aerosol Lacquer (gloss) instead of Deft as I had read that the Minwax lacquer may contain fewer platisizers.

Love to hear more about this product. Nitro or Acrylic?


Much obliged.

[crowden]

Once again, thanks for your expert advice Jack. I'm thinking that the 3M Flexible Polishing Papers are really best suited for touch up and repair than for working on larger surfaces so, I'll have to find the 1200, 1500 and 2000 wet/dry sandpaper somewhere as they don't carry it at the home improvement stores I've look in (800 is about it.

Since you sanded, your 20 coats wouldn't be a thick as my 20 coats.

Possibly but, since my "paint booth' is my back yard and we're having temps in the low 80's (in the shade) the lacquer dries to the touch in 2 or 3 minutes (in full sun) and I was able to make "coats" of 5 - 6 passes per coat without getting sags, spraying about 4" from the neck - it went on thick. Let me put it this way, I used the majority of 3 12.25 oz. cans to spray the neck. I left a small amount in the bottom of the each can and moved to the next to avoid any spitting from a can with low pressure.

Yeah, I took a bunch off but there is plenty of lacquer on the neck. It's not a thin finish by any means.

BTW, did the trick of pre-heating the cans in hot tap water. I must say that will never use spray paint any other way again.

Do you read hotrod magazines, too? I always heard to do that when painting cars.

... as a matter of fact I had a subscription to it back in the '70s. I (like everybody else) was in to muscle cars (Mopar) back then and my brother in law was into antique iron. I used to go help him with his restoration stuff (for free beer) that required only one brain but more than 2 hands... Any way, yeah, that's where I picked that up. I thought I was getting that part right. Oh well, I know now.

What I would do is wait a couple of weeks or a month (or 6). Wait as long as you can in other words.

Whoa! I had to wait nearly 3 weeks for the humidity to get low enough to spray and May starts our rainy season which means it will rain almost every afternoon and the humidity will make it like a steam bath out side. Couple that with me wanting to get my guitar back together and the chances that I will have the patients to endure that waiting go down to "slim to none". But, it is good to know the right way to do it and I appreciate the input.

Love to hear more about this product. Nitro or Acrylic?

I heard about it right here on TDPRI, I can't remember what thread it was tho... It doesn't say whether it's nitro or acrylic on the can but I remember that someone had look at the MDS and stated that it was nitro. It does have that pineappley fresh smell if that means anything.

[jwells393]

Pepboys ........... you know them ... right ....... Manny, Moe, and Jack .... not this Jack. They have the fine grit sanding papers. You might find them at other auto supply stores. An auto paint store would definitely have them.

[crowden]

Originally Posted by jwells393

Pepboys ........... you know them ... right ....... Manny, Moe, and Jack .... not thi Jack. They have the fine grit sanding papers. You might find them at other auto supply stores. An auto paint store would definitely have them.

Thanks, I'll go there after dinner tonight . Maybe they'll carry those Phillips screw drivers bent on a 90 too. I'm going to be needing one pretty soon to adjust the truss rod on this vintage style neck - Advance Auto Parts didn't have them.

[Durvish]

Post some pics of that neck!

[jwells393]

You might try one of these ........... paint can opener ......... for your truss rod adjustment........ probably free from your home improvement center.

......

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by crowden

Thanks, I'll go there after dinner tonight . Maybe they'll carry those Phillips screw drivers bent on a 90 too. I'm going to be needing one pretty soon to adjust the truss rod on this vintage style neck - Advance Auto Parts didn't have them.

Walmart carries those fine sandpapers, and so will homedepot or lowes. Ive bought them at all three stores numerous times.

[Old Cane]

--Couple that with me wanting to get my guitar back together and the chances that I will have the patients to endure that waiting go down to "slim to none".--

Tell me about it. It finally stopped raining here and wound up doing 6 coats along with the amber tint all in the same day. I know it was wrong but no one was there to stop me. It seemed to harden ok in a week but I really should have taken more time. I still have the body to do and probably went too fast on it too.

When I say it hardened in a week I mean I sanded it smooth (removing the bugs in the clear) and shot more this last weekend. Now I'll wait 3 or 4 weeks. I'm doing a coat a night on the body and will have it done by this weekend so it should all be ready in a month or so.

I think the trick is to start a new neck and body every week. That way you can paint a coat on 6 or 8 pairs and quit trying to rush that single one. I'll let you know how it works as soon as I can afford to do that.

I'm not very patient either but I finally figured I need to either do it like I'm supposed to or keep starting over trying to fix my mistakes from rushing it.

[crowden]

Originally Posted by jwells393

You might try one of these ........... paint can opener ......... for your truss rod adjustment........ probably free from your home improvement center.

......

Cool! Jack your wealth of information is priceless. The title "Poster Extraordinaire" couldn't be more fitting.

As luck would have it, I just got through painting the outside of my house last winter and I have a couple of those on hand.

And it was Pep Boys to the rescue...

I don't know why but the home improvement stores in this area are stocking less of some items that you used to be able to get there. Since the big boxes have run most of the neighborhood hardware stores out of business it's hard to find places that cater themselves to their particular clients needs and it's a waste of time to ask them if they will start carrying an item for you. I went into Home Depot the other day and asked if they had any feather boards - NO. I mean com'on man, your going to sell table saws and routers etc. and not sell their accessories? Fewer items and a narrower selection - seems to me they're going down hill. [/rant]

I'll post some pics when I get the guitar back together. Probably in about a week

[crowden]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

... I think the trick is to start a new neck and body every week. That way you can paint a coat on 6 or 8 pairs and quit trying to rush that single one. I'll let you know how it works as soon as I can afford to do that.

I was thinking along the same lines, unfortunately, I too am in the same boat :/

Originally Posted by Old Cane

I'm not very patient either but I finally figured I need to either do it like I'm supposed to or keep starting over trying to fix my mistakes from rushing it.

Wise words and something I definitely need to think about my self.

[lacquerbreath]

Never used sandpaper on a maple neck. Always preheated the nitro in a pitcher of hot tap water and when sprayed, when on like silk. Nice and flat.
I use regular automotive compound (the orange first, the white second) followed by a final hand rubbing with 3M Finesse-It II. Like a deep mirror
methinks.

[reddogbass]

Whoa dude! You got enough clear on there already to sand and buff to a smooth, high gloss. Why so many coats? Are you looking for the ultimate finish- out of the can? Won't happen. Stop now, and sand (600 wet, or finer)and buff.

If you ever chip that thing you'll have quite a job to repair, and the more coats (thicker the finish) the more susceptible it is to chipping.

[crowden]

Well, who knew... this is my first time lacquering a neck. I been trying to connect to the ReRanch site for well over a month to read through "Refinishing 101 but my browser just times out on the connection every time - same for the ReRanch Guitar Refinishing Forum. Unable to find anything else definitive on the subject, I punted.

I must say that there isn't 3 cans of lacquer on the neck. Each time I sanded, I had to dig out the white slurry around the frets and peg holes with a toothpick then, wipe it down with a damp sponge and after that, some naphtha on a piece of old sheet to make it clean enough for a re-coat. So, there might be a can and a quarter/half that actually stayed on the neck. From what I've generally read about lacquer application, this is what you do... spray some on, take some off... spray some on, take some off...

I guess I just over did it and made it more complicated than necessary but, I probably didn't do any real harm. I just made more work for myself and spent more time and money than I needed to.


For my edification, since temperature, humidity and can pressure can vary the way the finish is applied (making counting coats kinda useless) - what is a good general amount of rattle can lacquer to use on a neck? One?

And unless I get some fly legs, hair or lint in the lacquer, I don't use any abrasives until after the final coat - right?


About the 3M Finesse-It II. I've seen a lot of people here at TDPRI praise this stuff to no end and I have looked around for it. It seems to only come in pints and quarts @ $20 something a pint and nearly $50 a quart. At the rate I would use it, a pint would probably last me until the second coming or beyond so, I started looking for an alternative. I found it at Wal-Mart, it's called:

3M Scratch Remover
"The Pro's Choice"
"Removes fine scratches and swirl marks"
-- about $8 for 8 fl. oz. --

Whether this is the same or similar stuff re-branded for the home market is hard to say, it certainly is priced about the same. But I do know this, I bought some and tried it out on some fine scratches left from a bridge change out I did on my Affinity Special BSB Tele. The white automotive rubbing compound had left a so-so cloudy finish with a few fine scratches left behind. The 3M Scratch Remover cleaned up the fine scratches and cloudiness and left the finish as shiny and glass like as new.

I figure this 8 oz. bottle will last me a year or 2.

[po-boy]

i had the home depot paint guy check on the minwax spray lacquer and he said it was nitro and that it would yellow with age - he was surprised when i said great and bought a can -





- i'm not a complete idiot ... some parts are missing -

[lacquerbreath]

I've used the MinWax clear lacquer. Worked great. As far as the 3M Finesse-It, I get in on eBay for 10.00 for a 16 oz bottle. I'll spray 4-5 coats of pre-warmed lacquer on necks with 1-2 more on the headstock, no sanding at all during or after but go right to the compouds and Finesse-It.

[HiggyDude]

I've just started finishing AllParts maple necks and here is what I have done.

1. I sprayed Deft Sand-n-Sealer (2 -3 coats)
2. Used some ReRanch Tinted Amber for a vintage look
3. Then shot 6 - 10 coats of Deft Gloss lacquer
4. Then took 0000 steel wool and "sanded" the neck with the steel wool. I blew off the residual steel wool pieces (using the blower side of a shop vac) then carefully vacuumed the neck.
5. Shot another 6 - 10 coats of Deft lacquer
6. Used the steel wool again and then polished the neck with Meguiar's (#7 then #20 - I can't remember the exact polish numbers)

Seemed to work fine - shiny neck, smooth on the hands.

[Beatbx]

Originally Posted by jwells393

You might try one of these ........... paint can opener ......... for your truss rod adjustment........ probably free from your home improvement center.

......

I am going to try this when I get home and find out if you are a frickin genius.