The Buttercaster Project

[eryque]

Originally Posted by jwells393

..............Attachment 921

I'm pretty sure you're looking at the reflection of the back end of that guitar. That's how shiny his guitar is without even polishing it!

[Buckocaster51]

What's that?

I'm busted!

It is the DiWiDi Technologies Mk-IVc Magic Tone Enhancer.

Now that the secret is out, everybody will want one.



Actually eryque has it figured out pretty good. Originally I thought it was a reflection of a light, but my light doesn't have binding -yet!

[stoneyzoni]

Wow Bucko! This is exciting. I have been lurking around here for a few months. This is my first post.

I have a parts caster in the closet that just needs bridge holes, stringthrough holes and a jack hole, I'm getting it back out. That's all they is to it! =)

[Buckocaster51]

Put it on.

Take it off.

Put it on.

Take it off.

The Pumpkincaster had its last coat of DEFT on Sunday. Today it passed two tests. 1)when I hit it with my fingernail it sort of goes "click" instead of "thunk" and 2)when wetsanding it is not loading the paper.

So...



Some water, some liquid soap in that water, a sanding block, and some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and I get to start taking off that DEFT. The goal is to knock down all of the shine.

Something like this.



Took about an hour to go around the sides, the front and the back.

Now that I've opened it up I am going to let it outgas for a couple of days before I touch it again. Next time will be with 600 grit paper.

Got to be careful to not sand through to the color coat...or even worse, sand through to the wood.

That would be bad.

Very bad.

Buttercaster is getting its final coat(s) of DEFT tonight. It will be ready for 400 grit about the same time the Pumpkincaster will be getting hit with 600 grit.

[eryque]

400 grit seems awful rough for wetsanding, be sure you don't sand right through it.

Most of the folks on the Reranch board start wetsanding with 800 grit and work up to about 2000. I started with 600 on a couple of spots that had bad orange peeling, but only because I'm really lazy sometimes. I figured, why do in 10 minutes with 800 what I can do in 5 with 600?

But then I sanded through the finish in a few spots and had to work hard to touch it up. Touching up a transparent finish on the back and a sunburst on the front is not easy stuff.

Those sure are looking like sweet projects! Hope they play as well as they look!

[milkshape]

Great before and after picture, helps greatly to see what I am after. Also posting the grits at each stage takes guess work away. I really appreciate the time you take to educate.

Do I spy an orange one in the rack already?

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by milkshape

...Do I spy an orange one in the rack already?

I think you are seeing the sides of this one...



Not exactly the subdued, double-bound, Pastelocaster the Pumpkincaster and Buttercaster are intended to be.

The orange one is either a Warmoth baritone neck, or the silver one is a Warmoth 24" scale...sometimes I get confused.

Really confused.

[milkshape]

wow! Did you do all that paint work? And how, if you did. I have grandious ideas about masking a simple line drawing (black lines on a white body) and had just started searching on the forums here. I will most likely end up with reranch surf green, throttle down for the first attempt. At the risk of being chastised for off topic, and seeing the Buck Owens acoustic and tele avatar, any masking tips? If off topic please don't hesitate to chastise.

[Buckocaster51]

things aren't always what they appear to be. Those orange flames are $2.99/yard fabric under LOTS and LOTS of clear. Somebody who is really good could do it with an airbrush...but that isn't me.

Masking tips...ummm...with that thin 3M masking tape you can do about anything you want. Only tip I can think of is to practice on a similar surface and try to find out when the best time to pull the tape off is to give you a sharp edge. Different paints have different "best" times.

Also try to always pull the tape back over itself in the direction that you are pulling the tape...I know that doesn't make much sense...instead of just lifting the tape straight up...you will get a much better edge. The tape should make a real acute "U" as you pull it off.

Burnish down the edges of the tape before you spray...trying to preven the color from "leaking" under the tape.

You'll have fun. Not really much that you can mess up that you can't unmess up.

It's just time and money.

[kerc]

Bucko, why didn't you use Krylon clear to finish the guitars? Just curious, 'cos I have an upcoming project to restore a '93 MIM Squier Strat.

[Flashback]

Geez, how many "Dikkers" partscasters have you done?

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by kerc

Bucko, why didn't you use Krylon clear to finish the guitars?

Now that is a good question. When I spray, all sorts of "stuff", including the odd mosquito, winds up in the finish. Wet sanding, polishing, and buffing is ALWAYS required. I can do this easily with DEFT. Not so easily with KRYLON. Not saying that it can't be done with KRYLON, but it hasn't worked for me. (Haven't tried real hard either.)

DEFT = nitrocellulose lacquer <--dries good and hard by evaporation
KRYLON = acryllic enamel <---dries by evaporation and oxidation

or so I think

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by Flashback

Geez, how many "Dikkers" partscasters have you done?

I think the answer is in this thread somewhere.

It is addicting.

Very addicting.

But cheaper than owning a bass boat.

[kerc]

Originally Posted by Buckocaster51

Now that is a good question. When I spray, all sorts of "stuff", including the odd mosquito, winds up in the finish. Wet sanding, polishing, and buffing is ALWAYS required. I can do this easily with DEFT. Not so easily with KRYLON. Not saying that it can't be done with KRYLON, but it hasn't worked for me. (Haven't tried real hard either.)

DEFT = nitrocellulose lacquer <--dries good and hard by evaporation
KRYLON = acryllic enamel <---dries by evaporation and oxidation

or so I think

Cool. So you can throw nitro over acrylic enamel and it doesn't react? Nice to know!

[reddogbass]

Originally Posted by eryque

400 grit seems awful rough for wetsanding, be sure you don't sand right through it.

Most of the folks on the Reranch board start wetsanding with 800 grit and work up to about 2000. I started with 600 on a couple of spots that had bad orange peeling, but only because I'm really lazy sometimes. I figured, why do in 10 minutes with 800 what I can do in 5 with 600?

But then I sanded through the finish in a few spots and had to work hard to touch it up. Touching up a transparent finish on the back and a sunburst on the front is not easy stuff.

I'd hate to think of the frustration getting the surface flat (block/color sand) with 600 grit or finer. For the final sanding before buffing 600 is alright, and as fine as necessary.

If you are sanding through, either the surface ain't flat- or there ain't enough paint on it- or your sanding board is too small- or you ain't paying attention.

We don't color sand cars with anything finer than 600 beforer the buffing out the clearcoat. I don't kinow why guitars would be any different.

I actually sand with some "worn" 320 (which is probably about 400), then move to 600 (which when worn may be 800), then a course cutting compound, and a final with a machine glaze. I just don't know how much "shinier" it could be.

kerc- "Cool. So you can throw nitro over acrylic enamel and it doesn't react? Nice to know!"

This is not generally acceptable, and most times will result in a disaster. I don't really know how Buck gets away with it- but more power to him. He's very patient I guess. Because enough time will yield better results. It just isn't something you can do in the same day (or year?)

Hey Buck, I friggin' love the "lavender flame!" Without a doubt, one of the coolest looking guitars I've ever seen. Did you do the paint? Great job!

When you mention 3M tape, you are talking about the fineline stuff, right?

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by reddogbass

We don't color sand cars with anything finer than 600 beforer the buffing out the clearcoat. I don't kinow why guitars would be any different.

Hey Buck, I friggin' love the "lavender flame!" Without a doubt, one of the coolest looking guitars I've ever seen. Did you do the paint? Great job!

When you mention 3M tape, you are talking about the fineline stuff, right?

In the '60s, in high school, I never saw paper finer than 400. That always seemed to work for the lacquer we put on cars. A few years ago I started this guitar thing and discovered grits that go up to 2000! I'm no expert, but there must be a law of diminisioning returns working here somehow.

Thanks for the warm fuzzy on the lavender flames. While the concept, design, and colors were mine (did you notice the orange flame tips?) I didn't shoot it. It is that new-fangled urethane stuff that you actually need real equipment and knowledge to use. A friend of mine that paints motorcycles did it.

Thin 3M tape. Yessirreeebob! Almost as good at spray epoxy!

Happy Thanksgiving you all.

[kerc]

I work with model cars too. The Micro Mesh kit for polishiing paint goes up to 12000 grit!

[reddogbass]

Originally Posted by Buckocaster51

In the '60s, in high school...

Dang- that musta been the late 60's. I graduated in '64, and I'm six years older than you. OTH- all I did in math was flirt with the chick who sat ahead of me, sio I might be wrong.

I was wondering if your "motorcycle" guy painted "lavender flames." I can't wait to see "Martycaster" since he's doin' that one as well. Is he using two-part on that one too?

[Ronkirn]

Cool. So you can throw nitro over acrylic enamel and it doesn't react? Nice to know!

Not so fast…… No you cannot spray Nitro over acrylic.. unless you give the acrylic plenty of time to allow all the solvents to evaporate… a couple of weeks works … then begin the nitro with very thin mist coats, allowing it to build up, then allow that to dry about a week before gambling with the first of many wet coats….

Few realize that most of those beautiful 60’s Fenders with the custom colors were DuPont Duco Clear (nitro) over DuPont Lucite (acrylic) color coats….

Ron Kirn

[jwells393]

KRYLON = acryllic enamel <---dries by evaporation and oxidation

Buck.............. I was told by the Krylon people that Krylon is acrylic lacquer.

I've sprayed Deft over Krylon after no more than half an hour with no compatibility problems. However, I normally wait a day. Of course I live in a desert with very low humidity. Your drying time may vary.

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by jwells393

Buck.............. I was told by the Krylon people that Krylon is acrylic lacquer.

I've sprayed Deft over Krylon after no more than half an hour with no compatibility problems. However, I normally wait a day. Of course I live in a desert with very low humidity. Your drying time may vary.

since I have never talked to the Krylon people, that is why I said "or so I think"



always have to maintain plausible denialbility you know

As someone, I think it was Ron Kirn, has pointed out, these paint terms are thrown around so loosely many of them have lost any specific meaning. If you know what I mean.

I too have never had any problem putting DEFT over KRYLON...but I have had some issues with DEFT over a KRYLON primer once...and that really baffled me.

I guess the important thing to remember is to always test and go slowly.

I'm on the road right now. Will get to the Project guitars on Saturday. I think I will be able to do some serious sanding, polishing, buffing by then.

[tdowns]

Thanks again Buckocaster for all the great info.

Your awesome decal work sent me off on another quest for fonts. I think this one

looks as close as any I could find for the late 60s/70s logo. I'll be doing a Terrycaster soon. This font is Swiss721 Black Condensed BT Italicized.

Did you spray your decals with Krylon clear coat first?

[jwells393]

Did you spray your decals with Krylon clear coat first?

Since the Buckster is on the road, I'll give you my answer. Yes I do. I spray my home printed inkjet decals with Krylon Acrylic Clear before I apply them to the headstock. Once when I didn't get the Acrylic Clear thick enough, the ink began to smear as I was applying the decal.

[eryque]

Terry, I may off the mark, but I'm pretty sure that the 70s block-letter "Telecaster" you're going for is Helvetica. There are a couple of different popular variants, but Helvetica was used so much in the 60s and 70s that it stands right out when you see it.

[DrewB]

Originally Posted by tdowns

Did you spray your decals with Krylon clear coat first?

I actually shoot a couple of mist coats of Watco nitro on my decals before I apply them. I haven't used an acrylic because I tried the nitro once and it worked, and I am using nitro for my finishes, so...

[tdowns]

Thanks jwells. That's what I figured.

eryque,
I wasn't aware of how many fonts are in the Helvetica family. Check out this webpage and scroll down to Helvetica™ Black Condensed Oblique. It looks just like the font I was using to me. In any case the TELECASTER font is a condensed font, because the E is a slimmer aspect ratio than the regular Helvetica. It makes sense to me that Helvetica was a typeface used back then before computer fonts emerged. I bet my Swiss font is a copy of the Helvetica.

[Big Tony]

Originally Posted by tdowns

Excuse me, but I think the "S" looks a bit fishy...it's not leaning forward in the same way as the other letters. Also, the space between the "L" and the second "E" is more narrow than the other spaces between letters. It doesn't look like a well designed font to me...
JMHO...YMMV

Just trying to help.

/ Tony

[eryque]

Terry, I think you're right about the slimmer E, but the Ts and Ls look wider to me. It wouldn't surprise me if an industrious designer mixed and matched a little bit until it looked just right.

Here's a sample a made with a free font called Coolvetica, which is made to be a pretty direct copy of Helvetica.

[csharp]

Originally Posted by eryque

Terry, I may off the mark, but I'm pretty sure that the 70s block-letter "Telecaster" you're going for is Helvetica. There are a couple of different popular variants, but Helvetica was used so much in the 60s and 70s that it stands right out when you see it.

I always thought that "Swiss" was a codename for Helvetica in the font world, sort of like T-style is a codename in the guitar world.

[MGD342]

I think of all the website and pages I've seen on the 'net and really felt I'd seen it all - then I stumble on to this thread, greatest I've ever seen! I love it! Fantastic work!!

[BarnesTO]

Originally Posted by tdowns

Thanks again Buckocaster for all the great info.

Your awesome decal work sent me off on another quest for fonts. I think this one

looks as close as any I could find for the late 60s/70s logo. I'll be doing a Terrycaster soon. This font is Swiss721 Black Condensed BT Italicized.

Did you spray your decals with Krylon clear coat first?

I think Big Tony's right....the logo looks close, except for the "S". I've got a repro decal that may not be 100% either....

[tdowns]

Originally Posted by Big Tony

Excuse me, but I think the "S" looks a bit fishy...it's not leaning forward in the same way as the other letters. Also, the space between the "L" and the second "E" is more narrow than the other spaces between letters. It doesn't look like a well designed font to me...
JMHO...YMMV

Just trying to help.

/ Tony

You have a great eye for this stuff Big Tony. I agree with everything you said.


BarnesTO,
Thanks for the decal image. The character spacing is wider than my previously posted font image on your decal too.

OK. Here is HelveticaNeue LT 67 Medium Condensed Oblique, 18pt height (1/4") with 1.4pt expanded kerning in Microsoft Word.



OK, I think I've derailed this awesome post too much now. Thanks for the responses. If anyone finds a better font, let me know. Maybe we should do this in a different thread.

I really really admire your work Buckocaster. You are an inspiration to a hack Tele builder like me.

Remember: This is intended to name your own guitar using this font. This is not intended to copy the Fender logo using the "TELECASTER" typecase.

[Buckocaster51]

Wouldn't you know it...I'm gone THREE DAYS and you kids turn this into a discussion about FONTS!



It looks like Terry's last sample is about as close as anybody needs to get.

I print my decals on laser printers. Don't need to spray them with clear. That toner (aka PLASTIC) won't run in water.

Good news. Great news! Big news!

Got back in "off the road" - well the road was eating Turkey at Grandma Buckocaster's house - but I did stop and play an exciting 3 set engagement at the Pink Elephant Lounge at the Isle of Capri Casino in beautiful downtown Marquette, Iowa - and walked in the house...and it DOESN'T SMELL LIKE LACQUER!

That's right. No smell = no outgasing = those bad boys will be ready to sand, buff and polish tomorrow.

Thanks again for the compliments, suggestions, and words of encouragement.

[Ronkirn]

I'm gone THREE DAYS and you kids turn this into a discussion about FONTS!

That's funny.. I was thinkin' the same thing.... here we are all in the same class together... Graphic Arts. 101

In adobe illustrator you can actually manipulate each letter to get exactly what you are looking for.. don't ask me how... I have watched a digital artist do amazing things....

Ron Kirn

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

In adobe illustrator you can actually manipulate each letter to get exactly what you are looking for.. don't ask me how... I have watched a digital artist do amazing things...

More Graphic Arts 101



That's how I did this. I scanned in a Fender logo. Traced it with Illustrator's autotrace function, then cut, pulled, shrunk, tweaked...and "soon" I had my last name.

Illustrator and Photoshop are great programs. If I had practiced guitar as much over the last 15 years as I have "played" with those two programs...

sigh...

Class dismissed. Now back to work on the Buttercaster and its siblings.

[Ronkirn]

Bucko... did you recess the ferrules? and did you mount 'em first and paint over them?

Ron Kirn

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

Bucko... did you recess the ferrules? and did you mount 'em first and paint over them?

Ron Kirn

Nope to all of those questions.

They're going to be sticking up like those new-fangled guitars. That's what I have been doing on the others.

Remember...I'm just making this up as I go along.

[Buckocaster51]

When we last saw our intrepid hero he had just sanded the old Pumpkincaster to 400 grit and set it aside to sit for three days.

Today he attacked it with 600, 1000, 1200, 1500, and 2000 grit papers. Believe it or not, I sanded the entire thing with the little bits of paper shown. It just didn't seem to wear out.



Then it was time to attack it with rubbing and polishing compounds. I could use a buffer for this...if I had one...so DiWiDi Technologies Mk-I Elbow Grease, No. 7 Rubbing Compound, a soft cloth, and plenty of water will have to do.



sort of like this here



and in just a little bit of time...it will look like this...



No fancy tools...and especially no fancy tools that cost more than $99.

I have some "better" polish, some sort of Meguier's stuff I will go over it again with tomorrow.

Now it's time to get out the 400 grit paper and attack the Buttercaster.

[Dr Gonzo]

WOW. Looking great as usuall! all comming togther nicely.

[eryque]

Wow. That's purty.

Wow.