Nitro Question - Telecaster Guitar Forum
The Number 1 Fender Telecaster Guitar authority in the world.
   

Go Back   Telecaster Guitar Forum > The DIY Channel > Tele Home Depot
Forgot Username/Password? Join Us!
Notices

Tele Home Depot Building a T-Style guitar? From scratch or from parts. This is the forum for you.


Wilde Pickups by Bill & Becky Lawrence WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Amps, Mods, Pedals dallenpickups.com Warmoth.com seymourduncan.com


Forum Jump


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 13th, 2013, 08:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
TDPRI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ma
Posts: 57
Nitro Question

Hi Everyone,

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I can't seem to find any posts.

I have been reading a lot lately about newly shipped Gibson/Fender guitars having the traditional scent of nitro lacquer.

Is this indicating these companies are finish sanding/shipping prior to the finish fully curing? If so, do they run that same risk always discussed of losing sheen when the finish finally cures?

Thanks Everyone,
Joe

joejmo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 13th, 2013, 02:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Poulsbo Washington, USA
Posts: 1,215
My 59 ES 225 still smells like Gibson Lacquer when I open the case. Every guitar that I have built has sat for at least 30 days after spraying and prior to polishing. Every one of them has the distinctive smell of Sherwin Williams LOVOC lacquer (and I'm not fond of the smell) after more than a year of playing and sitting in the case. I don't think that the smell has anything to do with when they were polished. For example, I just wet sanded and buffed a Strat last week that I sprayed with SW lacquer about 6 months ago. I got busy and couldn't find time to get back to it. It smells just like all my other guitars which have been sprayed with the same product. Most, if not all, big builders have equipment which speeds up curing and allows much faster finishing and polishing.

Nitro Lacquer is an evaporative finish. The carrying solvents evaporate leaving the solids behind which form the film. I have read that Nitro never stops evaporating. After a month or so, the rate of evaporation gets really slow, but it still continues to "off gas". That is one of the reasons that vintage guitars have such a "thin skin". They weren't sprayed that way. That's my take, for what it's worth.
CapnCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 13th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
TDPRI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ma
Posts: 57
Thanks for the reply, I guess you bring up another good question. I have been going off of the rule that you wet sand after you can't smell the lacquer anymore, but on this most recent project of mine I haven't hit that point. The smell is faint and the lacquer has been sitting for a while.

I guess the underlying question was whether the "smell test" was a good representation of when to finish sand.
joejmo is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links   #
Sponsored posting
 

Old August 14th, 2013, 05:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
Tele-Holic
 
Crafty Fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Perth Australia
Age: 59
Posts: 767
I have a very limited sense of smell but I wait 4 weeks after final lacquer coat before wet sanding. On the other hand my wife has an incredible sense of smell; she'll tell me that I was playing my Tele while she was out. She can smell that it's been out of the case, and that's a 25 year old Vintage Reissue!
Crafty Fox is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 14th, 2013, 06:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Flakey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Land of 10,000 Lakes
Posts: 1,340
What you are smelling are the solvents. Having said that your question is specifically about Gibson and Fender. They ship as soon as the guitar can be handled. In some instances, Gibson for example, will mask the scent of the lacquer by putting a vanilla scent in either the lacquer itself or polishing compound. That scent will remain depending on how the guitar is stored. If its kept in a case when not being played then the gasses from the solvents escape at a lower rate vs. one that is store in the open air

When I sand the guitar I check first to see if its still gassing off, first by smell. If its light (say you could stand in a room and its not offensive or irritating). Then I press my finger nail against the finish. If it leaves a mark its too soft and not ready to sand. If it doesn't then I stat sanding.

Sanding will always release and gasses from the solvent. If I can smell the lacquer from a foot away I stop sanding and leave the body to cure longer (from a day to another week depending if I can leave it outside or not)
__________________
"All ya need are three chords and the truth"
Flakey is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 14th, 2013, 06:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
Tele-Holic
 
LeroyBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 921
I'd rather smell the vanilla than the lacquer, since I have to handle them all day long.
__________________
Directions? What directions. No one told me there were directions.
LeroyBlues is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 14th, 2013, 09:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
Barncaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Age: 49
Posts: 5,877
My wife has a bionic nose too. She can smell if a fly farts out in the back yard.
Barncaster is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 14th, 2013, 04:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Poulsbo Washington, USA
Posts: 1,215
Different brands of Nitro Lacquer differ in the amount of solids suspended and they also differ in solvent types and ratio of solvents and/or retarders. It should be no mystery, therefore, that different brands harden at different rates. I have sprayed only the Sherwin Williams LOVOC, Deft (both in the rattle can and from the can) and Behlin instrument lacquer. I've also sprayed Duplicolor clear acrylic but that is a different animal.

Of the three types of Lacquers that I have sprayed, I have found that the SW LOVOC dries and hardens the fastest. The Behlin lacquer hardens pretty quickly also, and the Deft takes a LOOOOONG time to harden. I have wet sanded the SW lacquer after only 4 days with no shrinking and sanding scratches. I have sanded the Behlin lacquer after 14 days. As described above the easiest way to check for readiness is to test a section in the neck cavity or tremolo cavity or pickup cavity with your thumb nail. If you can push your nail into the lacquer and it makes a mark, you need to wait. If you can't dent the lacquer with your nail, then you can likely sand without worrying about the lacquer shrinking and revealing sanding scratches later.

My observations tell me that the 30 day rule for sanding and polishing is very, very, conservative if you are using a quality lacquer. I know that it is repetatively recommended on this forum, and I have followed it myself on a number of guitars. As I have progressed in my spraying ability, I have found that there are a number of strongly held and oft propagated "rules" for building and finishing that are at best myths, and some which are just simply wrong. YMMV so experiment and perfect your own method.

I have found that there is a narrow window of opportunity in the lacquer drying process where it is hard enough to polish, but still soft enough to do so very easily. If you wait 30 days to polish, you will have to work A LOT harder than if you had polished at 10 or 14 days (assuming it is hard enough at 10 days).
CapnCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 14th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #9 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
tiskit86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oakland
Posts: 2,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barncaster View Post
My wife has a bionic nose too. She can smell if a fly farts out in the back yard.

Hmm. I sense a pattern, cause mine's the same way too. Not sure if it's a blessing or a curse.
tiskit86 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 14th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Poulsbo Washington, USA
Posts: 1,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiskit86 View Post
Hmm. I sense a pattern, cause mine's the same way too. Not sure if it's a blessing or a curse.
I don't know if it's a curse, but it is a major bummer when the wife can smell that you stopped off at the local pub for a cold beer before you even open the door to the house. It just ain't right.
CapnCrunch is offline   Reply With Quote

Old August 14th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
TDPRI Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: ma
Posts: 57
Thanks everyone for the fantastic advice and great commentary.
joejmo is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

/td>

» Random Photo for Guests
IMG_8606_2_
Untitled Document



 


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



IMPORTANT:Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult! No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2
© TDPRI.COM 1999 - 2014 All rights reserved.