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Old June 29th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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HELP I screwed up big time....

So I was running low on Gorilla glue. I ordered a new bottle 10 days ago, with a 5 day delivery - but it has not arrived. The problem is, that today the next step was to glue the body together.

So I went to this home depot shop, and asked for the strongest glue they had. Explained what I needed it for, and told the guy, that if it was like rubber, I couldnt use it. The guy told me to use Tec 7. This was the kind of stuff that they glued anything to wall with, and it would stick for years.

I again, asked if this wasnt going to be like a rubber glue. He said yes.

So I bought it, and glued the body together. I clamped it for about an hour, because the instructions said that after 1 hour it would be 90% dry.

But look at the gap. It IS rubber glue. I cant take them apart by hand after an hour, so I am horrified by this. Also, is it going to be white or transparent???

So what do I do now? Do I cut the body again, and sand it down, than glue it again with Gorilla? Or do I leave it like it is, filling the gaps with glue before using it?

All in all, I think I screwed up big time.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Pull the wood apart ASAP... and start scraping. Tec 7 is a silicone derivative.

You want to use either white wood glue (PVA: Poly Vinyl Acetate) or epoxy for this.

It does not appear that your would pieces are fitting together very well.

Pull things apart and clean up... then, post some larger photos.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You are gluing wood....use wood glue.....99.99 % of the folks around here use titebond or some similar yellow glue. Yes, other glues will work like polyurethane, white glue, epoxies, hide glue, superglue, mucilage, etc..... Ymmv.

The nice part of yellow glue is it softens with heat in case you need to dismantle the joint. Then you can remove the glue with warm water. It sets up fast and is pretty creep resistant. The other choice I'd use for wood construction is hide glue. I'd leave the others alone unless there was a specific application that called for it.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thank you so much. With the help from my brother, a knife, a screw driver, and a chisel, we got them split. This was close. REALLY close actually.

I was going to use normal wood glue, but the guy said this was a LOT better. Guess he was way off. The thing is, I asked 1 other place, and got the same answer...

Now I will do some scraping.

As for the 2 sides. I checked them together before I glued it, and they fit nicely. The reason it might look off, is because I still need to rout and cut the final cut so only 1 side is close to the template. Does that make sense?
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Old June 29th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Evo stick wood glue, the green one not the blue bottle that's for external applications. If your ever stuck again that is. It's a pva if memory serves and available from B&Q etc.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 06:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I wouldn't use gorilla glue, either, it sets up pretty foamy and soft. I've done repair work one acoustics after someone tried to "fix" it with gorilla glue and that stuff is a nightmare.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 07:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If that stuff had silicone in it nothing will ever stick to it now. I think you will need to not only remove that crap glue but sand a 16th or so off to get rid of what soaked into the wood. It appears from the pics you have some mating issues anyway that need planing.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 08:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Good old Titebond 1 works for me. Its the standard in the furniture and guitar making industries.

I've used Elmer's carpenter's glue on many builds as well. I'd avoid epoxies. Someone recently posted a comparison of different woodworking adhesives and the epoxies didn't do any better than PVA or hide glue.

If you want a glue that will crystalize hard, hide glue is probably the way to go. I've used Titebond liquid hide glue before and it also works well, it just smells horrible.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That Tec stuff is for gluing mirrors to walls, securing granite counters to cabinets, and sealing sinks and bathtubs etc. It's basically heavy duty silicone caulking.

Teletubbi is right, you should sand some wood to make sure it's all gone. Basic yellow Elmers is all you need, or Titebond. Either the clerks were clueless, or they just misunderstood what you were gluing.

Just checking, it may not have silicone in it, it's polymer-based. Still may need some sanding to get fresh wood for the glue to adhere to.
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Old June 29th, 2013, 11:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenG Capo4 View Post
Good old Titebond 1 works for me. Its the standard in the furniture and guitar making industries.

I've used Elmer's carpenter's glue on many builds as well. I'd avoid epoxies. Someone recently posted a comparison of different woodworking adhesives and the epoxies didn't do any better than PVA or hide glue.

If you want a glue that will crystalize hard, hide glue is probably the way to go. I've used Titebond liquid hide glue before and it also works well, it just smells horrible.
Titebond and Titebond Liquid Hide Glue is made by Franklin International, unless the international part is just an idle boast, I'd think it would be available in Ireland, and would be your best bet.

A pet peeve of mine is the store clerk who knows absolutely nothing about what you're doing, yet insists on recommending crap he doesn't have a clue about, as "just the ticket" for your project. I'm afraid I've become rather rude in my old age when one of these limpets attaches him/herself to me as I try to look through the selection for what I know I need.

BTW, I have this mental picture of a Monty Python-esque scenario with you and your brother, tools of destuction in hand, rolling about on the floor, in mortal combat with the reluctant halves of the guitar !
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Old June 30th, 2013, 01:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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This is a curing type of silicone. As such, your wood is not likely contaminated. It is the silicone "oils" (tire dressing, Pledge furniture polish, etc...) that are the evil types. They are contraband in my shop.

If you have perfectly tight bond lines, by all means, use PVA glue (white wood glue, Titebond, etc...). Keep in mind, PVA shrinks as it cures, that it why you need clamps. PVA is not waterproof and creeps over time in certain types of joints. PVA is not suitable for many woods high in oil content.

If you do not have perfect bond lines, use epoxy. Because it has virtually zero shrink, clamping is not strictly required. Clamp it only enough to squeeze out the excess. Epoxy also creeps, but 10's or 100's times less than PVA. If is also waterproof and 5 times stronger at a minimum. It is maligned here for some reason... and the "proof" lies in all the hundreds of success stories with PVA, but no mention of the failures. Avoid fast cure epoxies... the fundamental chemistry has been altered for convenience with consequent tradeoffs in quality.

And, as mentioned above... no gorilla glue... it is great stuff... just not for guitars... or working with real wood in general.

Side note: I would get the halves glued together first... then flattened before adding a skin or cap. Things will just go easier if your only clamping/squeezing in one direction/axis/whatever at a time.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 05:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I like the non toxic aspect and water wash up of yellow glue over the other alternatives too.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Titebond. Simple. Effective. ; )
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Old June 30th, 2013, 06:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The gorilla glue I have is the white wood glue. A friends of mine has the foam version of it. That one I will never use :). I will have a look at BQ to see if I can find Titebond. I have been scrapping it a bit off but today I am playing bass in church all day. From 8:00-20:00. I will clean it completely tomorrow. Btw it is still rubber ish. Not stiff at all...
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Old June 30th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The gorilla glue I have is the white wood glue. A friends of mine has the foam version of it. That one I will never use :). I will have a look at BQ to see if I can find Titebond. I have been scrapping it a bit off but today I am playing bass in church all day. From 8:00-20:00. I will clean it completely tomorrow. Btw it is still rubber ish. Not stiff at all...
I don't know where you are located but just about any home center or hardware store should have Titebond yellow wood glue. It shouldn't be all that difficult to find locally I wouldn't think. It is readily available here in Flint, MI anyway!
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Old June 30th, 2013, 11:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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White glue for me. That stuff looks like some glue that I removed from some shelving trim. It looked to be a latex rather than silicone 'glue', still not acceptable for guitar but you only may need to do a light sanding if it was latex.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So I was running low on Gorilla glue. I ordered a new bottle 10 days ago, with a 5 day delivery...
Go in to McQuillan's in Capel Street - they stock Gorilla Glue. I use pva myself, no particular problems with it.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Gorrilla glue used to be one product. One of those 'stick the battleship to the pier' type wonder bonds. I believe now Gorilla as a brand name sells several varieties. One of which is likely suitable.

Whatever -brand- you choose, I would use the woodworkers standard which is YELLOW glue.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I only use the super glue from stew Mac. Yes its a little more but its visc. is way better than that thick gorilla glue.
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Old June 30th, 2013, 07:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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As has been pointed out, there are many glues...some more suited to guitar building than others. I use titebond, epoxy for veneers, gluing the fretboard on andthe if I need extended working time to align tricky pieces. Super glue (CA) is useful for bindings and pore filling or stabilizing Burl. I use hide glue for most things on my acoustic builds. Have confidence that you know what you need and don't let those retail clerks talk you into something you don't need.
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