Biscuts Anyone? - Telecaster Guitar Forum
The Number 1 Fender Telecaster Guitar authority in the world.
   

Go Back   Telecaster Guitar Forum > The DIY Channel > Tele Home Depot
Forgot Username/Password? Join Us!
Notices

Tele Home Depot Building a T-Style guitar? From scratch or from parts. This is the forum for you.


Wilde Pickups by Bill & Becky Lawrence WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Amps, Mods, Pedals dallenpickups.com Warmoth.com seymourduncan.com


Forum Jump


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: A Great Lakes State!
Age: 60
Posts: 138
Biscuts Anyone?

OK, so you were thinking this, right:



Actually, I'm referring to something more like this:



When you folks glue up a body made of several pieces of wood, do you use a biscuit joiner? Feel free to tell me that I'm "way over-thinking" this whole thing... Hey now, it wouldn't be the first time I've heard that!

And for glue - Tightbond? Tightbond III? What do you folks like to use?

Once again - thanks!
Will ~

JustPlay is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
Glen Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Quebec, Canada
Age: 64
Posts: 6,931
I feel the biscuits are useless because there is a lot of slop in a biscuited joint so the biscuits don't assure a good alignment.
Just my opinion.
Glen Smith is online now   Reply With Quote

Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
Tele-Holic
 
jpbturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Banner Elk, NC
Age: 32
Posts: 984
I prefer pancakes.



Biscuits aren't needed with a proper glue joint.
If the wood to be joined is flat and smooth and you clamp it well then you should have no problems.

Titebond original with the red label is the normally recommended wood glue.
__________________
-Josh
Project Designer Emeritus - IGPA
"The Rebel Bass"
Books by Ron Kirn
jpbturbo is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links   #
Sponsored posting
 

Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago 'Burbs
Age: 58
Posts: 6,898
Nope, I don't use 'em- no need. Titebond Original for me.
__________________
When I grow up, I'm gonna be just like me.
Rich Rice is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: A Great Lakes State!
Age: 60
Posts: 138
OK then - once again, good "straight-up" advice -- much appreciated!
JustPlay is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
R. Stratenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loganville, Ga.
Posts: 6,232
Biscuits--the second type--not necessary. Joints are not really stressed very much, there's a large glue surface ratio to joined pieces, and alignment is easy.

Most around here use Titebond I. Seems the later, more waterproof versions of Titebond (II and III) are more plastic when dry, MAY creep, characteristics which TBI has less of. Luthiers' Mercantile International (LMI) has a PVA luthier's glue made for the purpose--don't know how it works, but I've got a bottle in my fridge waiting for my next build.

The "right" adhesive for musical instruments is hot hide glue--it hardens quite hard, does not creep, and because of its hardness, inhibits vibration less between the pieces than a more plastic adhesive. It's a PITA requiring a heating device that keeps it at a constant temperature, goes bad and smells terrible, and does not smell all that great when it's not bad.

Long way around to say Titebond I, widely available, and reasonably priced--will work just fine. And if using biscuits would make you feel more confident in your glue up--go for it.
__________________
--Rick
A dog teaches a boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.--Robert Benchley
R. Stratenstein is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 03:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
kwerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,592
Biscuits:





Scones:




BTW what is that white stuff in the earlier pic? Please don't tell me that's "gravy".

As far as biscuits for guitar building? My first instinct would be to shy away from chocolate ones, they may ruin your prospects of a good finish.

My second instinct would be to say they simply aren't necessary for guitar building. A good smooth glue joint is all you need. There is not sufficient pressure, shear, weight, distance or any of the other reasons why use of a biscuit might be necessary.
__________________
Phil

I'm full of dust and guitars - Syd Barrett
kwerk is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Davecam48's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Queensland Australia
Age: 66
Posts: 1,957
I have done spline joins on a three piece body I did long time ago, but I think it was overkill, but easy enough with a router table. Titebond original and a good clamping and you'll be ok.
__________________
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Davecam48 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
2014 BUILD CHALLENGER
Poster Extraordinaire
 
guitarbuilder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hemlock, NY
Age: 60
Posts: 8,861
I think the only place where a biscuit could be useful would be in a neck through glue up where the wings are cut and thicknessed before gluing to the neck through section which is also cut and shaped. I've made guitars like that a few times and regular clamps have managed to hold the pieces while gluing it up. I thought I needed a biscuit joiner when they first came out years ago and I can't say I ever used it on anything.
guitarbuilder is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Bronkowitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 103
If it were end grain you were gluing, a biscuit would help quite a bit. But since the body is a butt joint between pieces of face grain and because there will be almost no torque, torsion, or shear forces applied to the joint the glued joint will be much stronger than the wood itself.
Bronkowitz is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:53 AM   #11 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
mngsp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mandan, ND
Age: 46
Posts: 190
Quote:
BTW what is that white stuff in the earlier pic? Please don't tell me that's "gravy".
Yes, that would be a sausage gravy. Yummy
mngsp is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
RogerC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 41
Posts: 4,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwerk View Post
BTW what is that white stuff in the earlier pic? Please don't tell me that's "gravy".
Is there any other way to have them?
__________________
"The difference is that you're crazy like Nicolai Tesla and I'm more like the guy who sniffs paint and rides his bike down the middle of the road" - Me to Crazydave911
RogerC is online now   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 10:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: A Great Lakes State!
Age: 60
Posts: 138
Thanks folks - It's "official" - I'm going to "pass" on the biscuits!
JustPlay is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 10:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
OpenG Capo4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 2,837
@ Roger- with jelly/jam/preserves or apple butter

Titebond I, good straight sides, and a glue up with pipe clamps have been working fine for me. The stress on a solid guitar body is parallel to the grain. I guess some people like biscuits for alignment, but the sides of a body blank are so short (20 or 21" at the most, unless you're doing an Explorer or something), that you can align them easily without biscuits. I suppose if you were doing an 8ft table from 8/4 lumber by yourself or something they might help you line it up in lieu of an extra pair of hands.

I helped my neighbor build a ping-pong table last week. You can only get MDF in a 4x8' sheet, and a regulation ping-pong table is 5x9'. So we had to some creative joinery with large pieces. Of course, that was only 3/4" MDF, but we still had a time lining it up and clamping it without long clamps. I made a jig similar to a Kreg jig and we pegged and doweled it. The pieces were still like 1/32" out of alignment over the 5' of length, but a couple passes with an orbital sander got it good enough for gov't work.
__________________
"Wait a minute - thirties? Where you get this thirty dollar bill, man? There ain't no thirty dolla' bill with Bill Graham's picture on it. Who you think I am some kinda dummy? " - Mojo Nixon
OpenG Capo4 is online now   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 11:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
2014 BUILD CHALLENGER
Tele-Afflicted
 
motor_city_tele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: motor city
Posts: 1,719
No biscuits - seems like a waste plus 3 more steps where something could go pear-shaped. I've never had a joint fail using titebond and clamps. I use the stuff in the red bottle.
__________________
You're gonna need a bigger boat!
motor_city_tele is online now   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 07:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
dsutton24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,267
I use 'em. I know they aren't 'necessary', but if you've read here for long you've seen threads where blanks have had to be ripped, jointed and reglued because something slipped. I've never had that problem.

It's worth mentioning, though, that if you're going to use a plate joiner, get a good one. The cheapies are miserable things, and probably responsible for a lot of botched projects.
__________________
Yet another hobby that is completely out of control...
dsutton24 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 07:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Brian blaut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SF North Bay
Age: 39
Posts: 2,729
you sold me. I'm making biscuits tonight when I get home! I don't have any sausage in the house, so I might have to make gravy out of bacon grease.
Brian blaut is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
TDPRI Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 55
If you own one nobody would ever know it was used. If you don't own one you wouldn't miss it.

Now, I'm going to Cracker Barrel for breakfast...
Guitarz is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
R. Stratenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Loganville, Ga.
Posts: 6,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwerk View Post
Biscuits:





Scones:




BTW what is that white stuff in the earlier pic? Please don't tell me that's "gravy".

As far as biscuits for guitar building? My first instinct would be to shy away from chocolate ones, they may ruin your prospects of a good finish.

My second instinct would be to say they simply aren't necessary for guitar building. A good smooth glue joint is all you need. There is not sufficient pressure, shear, weight, distance or any of the other reasons why use of a biscuit might be necessary.
So Phil, since you call what we call cookies, biscuits, and what we call biscuits, scones, is there an edible thing in the old Britannic Empire named cookies, or is that word reserved for things that websites lodge in your computer, for better or worse?

I've always wanted to visit a country and have afternoon tea and strumpets!
__________________
--Rick
A dog teaches a boy fidelity, perseverance, and to turn around three times before lying down.--Robert Benchley
R. Stratenstein is offline   Reply With Quote

Old January 24th, 2013, 04:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
Tele-Holic
 
Peltogyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 979
Never used the biscuits but I used a lot of dowels for alignment purposes. Short pieces and a "dowel center" for gluing body halves together and longer pieces to help align multi piece necks with veneers and lots of layers so they can be glued in one shot. I'd place them in areas that wouldn't be in the final guitar.
__________________
"it is easier to fool someone than convince them that they have been fooled."
Peltogyne is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


» Random Photo for Guests
Guitar Stand

Untitled Document



 


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



IMPORTANT:Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult! No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2
© TDPRI.COM 1999 - 2014 All rights reserved.