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Old September 18th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Nut Width 1-5/8" vs 1-11/16"

Has anyone ever tried a 1-11/16" nut on a guitar with a standard size Fender heel and USA spec'd bridge 2-1/16" string spread?

I want to build a neck that will fit in a standard neck pocket but that's wider @ the nut, using the standard USA bridges.

Will the strings be too close to the edge of the neck towards the heel or is it just fine? Any experiences?

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Old September 18th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home...d-hickory.html

Yep I made one with a 1-3/4" nut. Send me a PM with your e-mail addy and I can get you drawings. I'll adjust my CAD drawing to see if 1-11/16 will work with standard heel.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Fender has made thousands like that. no problem at all.

I have had some issues with 1 3/4" nut, standard heel width if I roll the edges too much.

Here is one I am working on. Plenty of room on the upper frets. Almost identical up the neck.

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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Has anyone ever tried a 1-11/16" nut on a guitar with a standard size Fender heel and USA spec'd bridge 2-1/16" string spread?
I've built up to 1 3/4" nut width with a standard heel. My 12 string with a 1 7/8" nut only has a 1/16" wider heel, but then I used a 25" fretscale also
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Old September 19th, 2012, 11:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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does the string spread normally change between the 1-11/16 and 1-5/8 nuts on the Fender necks? I'm under the impression that they are the same.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by guitar2005 View Post
does the string spread normally change between the 1-11/16 and 1-5/8 nuts on the Fender necks? I'm under the impression that they are the same.
You're talking about 1/16" inch of difference divided by 5 between-string gaps, over a 25.5" scale length. I'd imagine they are very close
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Old September 19th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Why does it have to be 1 5/8 OR 1 11/16? I wish more builders would adopt the 1.650 that the Custom Shop uses on their guitars. I have an '06 Nocaster with this nut width and it is the most comfortable width ever IMO.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 11:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Why does it have to be 1 5/8 OR 1 11/16? I wish more builders would adopt the 1.650 that the Custom Shop uses on their guitars. I have an '06 Nocaster with this nut width and it is the most comfortable width ever IMO.
Wow, the custom shop gets their neck widths down to 1/1000" accuracy?

I don't have a slew of American Standards to measure, but I wonder how wide the range of their real world neck widths is, might include 1.650"
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Old September 19th, 2012, 11:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't have a slew of American Standards to measure, but I wonder how wide the range of their real world neck widths is, might include 1.650"
That's a very good point, since they are using the cnc machines vs. template and router I'd think it would be pretty consistent. According to spec sheets the nocaster is advertised at 1.650, and the american standards are 1 11/16 which is 1.6875. So apparently they are confident in their tolerances.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I built a Warmoth partscaster with 1 11/16"nut. No problem.

Bought it that way since all my acoustics are that size.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nosmo
I built a Warmoth partscaster with 1 11/16"nut. No problem.

Bought it that way since all my acoustics are that size.
Me too. Works fine.

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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Fender has made thousands like that. no problem at all.

I have had some issues with 1 3/4" nut, standard heel width if I roll the edges too much.

Here is one I am working on. Plenty of room on the upper frets. Almost identical up the neck.

Hey Colt, nice sunburst :-). Did you make the finish? What did you use for colors? It looks realy great. Thanks
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hey Colt, nice sunburst :-). Did you make the finish? What did you use for colors? It looks realy great. Thanks
Yes, I mix my own colors using colortone pigment and transtint dye.

I always found it odd that Nocaster and 52 RIs were fat and had 1.650" nut width. Most real 52s and 51s Ive measured were less than 1 5/8, and a very similiar profile thinner neck. But Ive read about exampes of big ole necks, I just havent ran across any yet.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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So it sounds like a 1-11/16" nut works just fine with a standard sized heel and 2-7/16" bridge?

If the string spread at the nut is the same between the two, I guess it makes no difference.
Is the string spread at the nut always 1-3/8" or is it wider on the wider nut (i.e. 1-7/16")?
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Old September 19th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I've seen similar questions recently, and it's pretty easy
to work out the answer with a little calculation.

(I'm prepared already for the pushback )

Here goes. If:

b is the E-E string spacing at the bridge
s is the scale length
d is the distance from the neck heel to the bridge saddles
n is the nut width

then the width of the neck heel should be:

n + ((b - n + 0.25) * (1 - d/s))

This is in inches, where the 0.25 assumes you want
1/8" spacing from the side of the neck to the E strings.

If you want the width of the neck at some point other than
the heel, just let d be the distance from that point to
the bridge saddles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar2005 View Post
Has anyone ever tried a 1-11/16" nut on a guitar with a standard size Fender heel and USA spec'd bridge 2-1/16" string spread?

I want to build a neck that will fit in a standard neck pocket but that's wider @ the nut, using the standard USA bridges.

Will the strings be too close to the edge of the neck towards the heel or is it just fine? Any experiences?
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Old September 19th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatfive View Post
I've seen similar questions recently, and it's pretty easy
to work out the answer with a little calculation.

(I'm prepared already for the pushback )

Here goes. If:

b is the E-E string spacing at the bridge
s is the scale length
d is the distance from the neck heel to the bridge saddles
n is the nut width

then the width of the neck heel should be:

n + ((b - n + 0.25) * (1 - d/s))

This is in inches, where the 0.25 assumes you want
1/8" spacing from the side of the neck to the E strings.

If you want the width of the neck at some point other than
the heel, just let d be the distance from that point to
the bridge saddles.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 09:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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a true 1 5/8 is 1.625...which is what is considered to be correct vintage spec and what 99% of all strats had.......1.650 is....1 21/32 and as stated 1.6875 is 1 11/16.

my 82 - 62 fullerton reissue has a 1 11/16 nut width and is thin..i dont like it a whole lot. david gilmore likes this profile as his black strat has an 83- 57 reissue neck on it and it has the same profile as the 62 reissue.

i have a 4 bolt 71 strat with a 1 5/8...1.625 and c ( some say d ) shape medium chunky and is the same neck dimensions as from about 62- some time in the mid- late 70's.. and i like this width the best.

i also had a neck made by usacg and i supplied the wood. a roasted maple neck blank and an african blackwood fret board blank.

i specifically asked tommy/rob to cut the nut width to 1.625...not 1.650 which is what most people advertise ( even usacg ) as 1 5/8 but in reality is like i said...1 21/32 and some did come like this from the factory because of hand sanding ect and no machines like today so tolerance was a bit diverse. but 99% were 1.625.

even usacg advertises 1.650 as vintage but if you ask tommy he will also tell you 1.625 is actually true vintage and is what leo was shooting for. but many prefer the slightly wider 1.650....but i do not.

b. hefner also advertises as having the original 1.625 width.

i asked warmoth to cut this width to 1.625 and they told me no..it was not feasable ???...and then i asked tommy and he told me it was not a problem and that he would not even charge me for it !

warmoth was also going to charge me 450 dollars plus 25 dollar inspection fee for using my own wood. ( that is more than usacg charged me for building, finishing, rolling the edges... the whole neck ) tommy did not charge me for using my own wood..no inspection fee and charged me 355 dollars to put a satin finish on it, their logo and clay dots.

355 dollars from usacg and 800 from warmotha nd warmoth would not d the custom work.

so i have nothing but good to say about usag and their accomodating me.

usacg also uses a 2 5/16 heel on a 1 7/8 nut width and cuts the neck pocket on the body bigger.

i think anything up to 1 3/4 does not ned a bigger heel.

im not good with wood working but from what i have found this seems to be the case.



here is a bit of info on original vintage neck widths up until 69

.Neck Width.
From March 1962 to 1969, Fender marked their necks with an "official" neck width letter at the butt of the neck (in front of the date code). The "B" neck width is the normal width, as used on about 99% of all Fenders from this period. All other sizes were available by special order only. Also all pre-1962 Fender necks have a 1 5/8" nut width ).

A = 1 1/2" wide at the nut.
B = 1 5/8" wide at the nut (normal size).
C = 1 3/4" wide at the nut.
D = 1 7/8" wide at the nut.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thats Probably what it cost Warmoth in labor/lost production to reset/reprogram their machines to change the nut width. USACG probably has a little more flexible CNC schedule.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 10:57 PM   #19 (permalink)
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So it sounds like a 1-11/16" nut works just fine with a standard sized heel and 2-7/16" bridge?

If the string spread at the nut is the same between the two, I guess it makes no difference.
Is the string spread at the nut always 1-3/8" or is it wider on the wider nut (i.e. 1-7/16")?
2 7/16" sounds a bit wide for bridge string spacing on a fender guitar.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I just measured my Ultra Strat and it is 1-11/16" nut, 1-7/16" string spacing and the trem is 2-1/16". Seems to work fine but I don't have a combo with that neck size and a 2-7/16" bridge. Its the 2-7/16" bridge that worries me - that's w i d e.
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