To Shim or not to shim.......

[RobR]

Just looking for views on the subject.... I already have an opinion... but curious to what the general thought on the subject is:

Scenario: Aftermarket neck (with large frets and flatter radius) on Actual Fender body.... set up is not happening (bridge saddles all the way up).... either a shim in the neck pocket or the neck pocket needs to be milled to accommodate the new neck.

What would you do?

Go!

[Guitarnut]

Given those two options, I would shim it first. You'll be surprised how much difference even the thinnest of shims can make. And, it's reversible.

Milling the neck pocket? I might be more inclined to refret the neck with shorter frets. Again, it's reversible.

Creating non-standard parts is limiting and could be why you're having the issue...someone else did something to "fix" a problem.

[Paul G.]

Shim it.

It's quick. It's easy. It's reversible. It works. It doesn't affect tone, in fact some people swear that a negative neck angle sounds better. I can't hear it, but OK.

P.

[Muzikp]

Yep I'd shim before modifying a std Fender body. Once you mod that pocket the body isn't worth anything.

[guitarbuilder]

Shim. Thousands of 3 bolt Fender necked instruments came with a tilt mechanism which did the same thing.
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=tilt+...9,r:2,s:0,i:81

[RobR]

Devils Advocate:

Will it will have adverse effects on the tone?... at this point it's not a wood to wood contact

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by RobR

Devils Advocate:

Will it will have adverse effects on the tone?... at this point it's not a wood to wood contact

^^^Read Guitarbuilder's post ^^^

[Paul G.]

Originally Posted by RobR

Devils Advocate:

Will it will have adverse effects on the tone?... at this point it's not a wood to wood contact

Well, if you put a shim and hear it, first of all you won't, but if you think you do, pull it out.

I've had some guitars that needed shimming, front and rear. I've always been happy with them. A good-playing guitar is the number one goal.

If you're nervous, make a thin shim from maple.

P

[chrisgblues]

Go for it Rob, it's a no-brainer to install some shims. Only YOU can decide if you like it or not, the best part is that it's fully and completely reversible.

Start off by taking a business card and cut off about a half inch on one end. Use that cut off piece as the shim. If that doesn't work, try stacking 2 pieces...that almost always does the trick. I wouldn't go any higher than 2...that would be indicative of a much more serious alignment problem IMHO.

YMMV.

[Ronkirn]

I'm betting the front part of the neck's heel is not seated all the way down into the pocket…. check to be sure a "bugger" didn't fall out of one of the holes as they were being mated... and is acting as a shim already..

Ron Kirn

[RobR]

Sorry, not to mislead anyone .... I was just looking for opinions.... (this is a long running argument between me and a couple techs I know)

I have guitars that do and don't have shims. I don't think that a properly cut shim makes a lick of difference in tone.... I feel that the Micro tilt systems has a much larger impact in coupling between the body and neck... (yes I think they are the devil) ... and have ripped them out of many guitars and if an angle is needed for a better set up I shim.

There seems to be 2 camps on the subject.... so I was curious what the consensus was.... thanks!

[braderrick]

So if the saddles are all the way up, in your situation you'll need a shim on the headstock end of the neck pocket right? That may leave a visible gap between the neck/pocket. If it were the other way around and the neck needed to be shifted the opposite way I'd definately put a shim toward the bridge in the neck pocket but in your case I'd be inclined to do a little neck pocket routing. Not for tone but for asthetics of course...

[hemingway]

I had the same problem, put in a shim and was able to lower the saddles to a sensible height. I found no difference in tone.

[oigun]

If you don't like a shim, shave the heel of the neck in the proper angle. When you do it careful it will be invisible too.

[trev333]

I wouldn't rout the neck pocket if it's a stock fender body... in case you might want to put a fender neck back on it...

you might need to measure the heel thickness of a fender neck and compare it to your neck's heel thickness... and shave the back to get the same thickness...

a shim will change the neck angle... it may not be the best solution.... it will probably work though,,,

I've set up a few guitars with one thickness of business card at either end if need be.... before I adjust wood....

[braderrick]

Originally Posted by oigun

If you don't like a shim, shave the heel of the neck in the proper angle. When you do it careful it will be invisible too.

Yes this would work as well and may be a better option than messing with the pocket if you know that the pocket has worked well with other necks in the past.

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by oigun

If you don't like a shim, shave the heel of the neck in the proper angle. When you do it careful it will be invisible too.

Originally Posted by braderrick

Yes this would work as well and may be a better option than messing with the pocket if you know that the pocket has worked well with other necks in the past.

True, this would work but if you're going to shave the heel, why bother with an angle? Just take off the extra thickness across the entire heel. Attempting the angle just complicates the process and creates a non standard part.

I'm just sayin'

[oigun]

Originally Posted by Guitarnut

True, this would work but if you're going to shave the heel, why bother with an angle? Just take off the extra thickness across the entire heel. Attempting the angle just complicates the process and creates a non standard part.

I'm just sayin'

I thought of it so that there was no need for refinish the heel...

[braderrick]

Originally Posted by Guitarnut

True, this would work but if you're going to shave the heel, why bother with an angle? Just take off the extra thickness across the entire heel. Attempting the angle just complicates the process and creates a non standard part.

I'm just sayin'

True true, didn't really think of that. The guitar I had this issue with is a baritone esquire which I had a really fat neck made for and the neck was so fat at the heel this wasn't really an option for me, and it was already finished.