Yet Another Pickup Winder Build Thread

[R. Stratenstein]

I want to acknowledge right out of the box, that I'm openly, and quite shamelessly stealing ideas from guitarbuilder, nosmo, and many others, but mainly Barncaster, who's experimenting with DC gearmotors and variable power supplies I have adopted as the best approach, insofar as I can tell.

There are any number of perfectly acceptable alternate methods, Scatter Lee proved it could be done with a fishing reel, but I have a couple of ideas I want to try, a sick Strat that needs some OEM type pickups that I want to wind myself, plus the smart money thinks next year's Challenge will include a requirement for builders to wind their own. So here goes:

I had already ordered up the gear motor, 24 Volts DC, and a 5-amp, 24- volt variable power supply for it based on Barncaster's winder. Early tests with this equipment did not disappoint me.

So I got to work on the winder this weekend.

[IMG][/IMG]

My next door neighbor, who used to work at a machine fabrication shop, let me paw through some of their cutoffs a while back, and one of my finds was a piced of 1/4" thick aluminum plate. Since the shaft length of my motor is a bit over 1/4" long, this seemed ideal for the winder head plate. So I broke out the hacksaw. I had not realized that this was some aluminum alloy, and is pretty hard stuff--suffice it to say, I got a workout cutting a slab off.

The gear motor I got, and apparently most of them in this class, have 6mm diameter output shafts. Rob (aka Barncaster) had trouble locating domestic sources of 6mm drill bits. Luckily for me, not too far away, there is an extremely well-stocked hardware store that's in what used to be a bowling alley, that actually had a 6mm bit. And just about anything else you could possibly think of, too!

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Before I drilled the 6 mm hole, I looked at the flatwork pieces that came with the StewMac pickup kits I bought for my Strat, Top and bottom pieces have a small hole dead center, that would make a great anchoring point. (I suppose that's what it's there for--duuuhhh). Anyway, it occurred to me that if I drilled the 6mm hole all the way through the aluminum piece, there was no way I could use that small hole in the flatwork to secure the pickup bobbin to the winder.

The first alternative that occurred to me was drilling half way through with the 6mm bit, and the other half with the no. 20 or so bit so that a 4-40 machine screw would fit. 4-40 is roughly the size of the hole (no. 4 screw, 40-pitch thread). But if I drilled half-and-half, there would only be 1/8 inch of the motor's shaft secured in the winder beam, and I didn't think that would be stable or very secure.

So my plan evolved to making a securing piece--a "collar", if you will, what would be the full 1/4" thick, then another 1/4" piece that would be the actual beam to which the pickup was secured. This piece would be drilled and threaded dead-center for a 4-40 screw to be used to secure the pickup bobbin.
The two pieces would be attached together by 4 machine screws in holes threaded in the winder beam.

Following are some shots of the machining process. It will be clearly apparent I'm no machinist, and my only machine was the drill press, plus files, emery paper, and a lot of wordy dirds when things did not go well. Like when I drilled way oversize for one of the setscrews.

[IMG][/IMG]

First I had to true up my crappy, wandering hacksaw cuts. It is pathologically impossible for me to saw anything with a hacksaw in a straight line, no matter what.

[IMG][/IMG]

However, one glass of lemonade that came out of this lemon is that I finally discovered at least one thing my crappy Harbor Freight belt and disk sander is semi-good at--helping to straighten out poorly cut lines in aluminum. Sort of.

[IMG][/IMG]

The photo above is the 6mm hole being drilled into the securing piece.

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Drilling for the setscrews. I actually drilled the right size setscrews pilot holes. The problem came when I realized my taps were too short to thread the whole length of the bore. So I decided to overdrill part of the pilot hole, so the tap wouldn't bite until about half way down the hole. Then it would be able to thread the rest of the way to the motor shaft hole. I'd wanted to use two setscrews opposing each other for a good, tight fit. However, I'd forgotten ole Murphy who sleeps in my shop, and is always awakened by projects, and stands in the background ready to "help". For the oversize bore, I forgot to tighten the depth stop setscrew on the drill press, so it dutifully drilled an oversize hole the entire length of what should have been the setscrew hole. Dang! I can probably go get a bigger diameter setscrew, but I hate it when stuff like this happens. Stoopid!

[IMG][/IMG]

Tapping for the one good setscrew. I did try to "collapse" the oversize hole by using a drift then a centerpunch, struck with a hammer, to try and push the walls of the hole in some, enough for the tap to catch and cut a few teeth that would hold a setscrew, but no dice. It did manage to nicely collapse one edge of the 6mm hole, requiring that I rebore it.

[IMG][/IMG]

I didn't get many shots of fabrication of the rest of the "collar", or of the winder beam itself. Mainly locating the center points of both, drilling clearance holes and threaded holes for the securing screws. After the first trial assembly--(which went unusually well--YAAAAAYYY ), I picked the thing up, and man, it was heavier than I'd anticipated--I put it on the scale and it weighed 8.1 oz.--half a pound. I'm not sure what kind of bearings those little gear motors have, but I have no doubt that it will wear out a whole lot sooner with that kind of weight on it. So I decided to drill some weight reduction holes--same principle as chambering a guitar build, except no need to conceal these. If I had a nice, fancy mill I could have made some nice neat pockets, but I was able to remove more than 2 oz. from the assembly. Hope it's enough!

Anyway, it's great when you've got some good cutting oil, a sharp bit, and the right speed dialed in to your drill press--these long streamers of aluminum squiggles fly around everywhere and whip around the bit until they break off. (Or, I suppose, lacerate your face to ribbons! Face shield, remember!).


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So here's a shot of the ugly side of the components, showing the main parts, the setscrews (only one of which can be used right now), the assembly screws, the 4-40 screw to hold the bobbin in place, and the lightening holes I bored into the thing. You can clearly see the drift and center punch holes where I tried to salvage the oversize setscrew bore--just made it even uglier, and did no good.

And finally, the money shot--here it is assembled and on the motor. 6mm hole seemed a little tight, but I cleaned up the bore with a little 600 grit emery paper rolled into a tube, and it seemed to fit tightly.

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Next post will be a little video of its first trial run.

[R. Stratenstein]

Here's a short composite video of two test runs I did. It seems to have a wobble that I can't figure out. The face of the beam while it runs seems to be perfectly flat, so far as I can tell at this point. It may be that the 4-40 hole was drilled crooked, maybe I had a chip under the workpiece of drill vice, I don't know. It's annoying, but looks worse in the video that it really is. I think I can live with it. The amount of wobble is little enough so that secured only with masking tape, it doesn't really shake itself loose. (It just slowly pulls loose of its own weight.)

It may still be too heavy, and more than I need. Maybe I should just use a scrap of oak or maple--hardwoods I can probably cut threads into (for setscrews), and abandon the aluminum idea.--Any thoughts out there?




Anyway, my next step involves some woodworking, but until I finish the bed refinishing project from hell, I can't make any sawdust in my shop. So it will be a few days until I resume the thread, but will post as soon as I have something to show.

Rick

[guitarbuilder]

Nice, I like to see aluminum machining..... ....:-). The end mounting screw is a good idea.

[R. Stratenstein]

Finally got in a position to make a bit of sawdust in the shop yesterday.

First task was to find a Forstner bit the same, or close, diameter as my motor's gear housing. The motor housing itself is thin sheet metal and seems a bit thin. The gear case, however, is more sturdy.

I liked Barncaster's clamp-style mounting for his motor, and set out to emulate (that is; shamelessly copy) what he'd done.

Started out by cutting a length of oak board and boring for the gear housing in the board:

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Hmmm-- it's a bit big, but my next smaller bit was quite a bit too small. Wish I'd invested in some of those "in-between" size bits, but too late now. Besides, the hole will clamp smaller when I get the thing finished.

[IMG][/IMG]

Next step is to cut a saw kerf, vertically, through the top of the board, down into, and through the hole, so the sides of the hole can be drawn in by a bolt and nut. My longest bolt was a bit too short, so I cut some recesses in the board's top for the bolt. Also bored a through-hole from side to side for the bolt.

First test was without the motor housing in the hole. Threaded the bolt in, and when I wrenched on it, you could see the halves of the board pulling toward each other, and the motor mounting hole becoming narrower. . . . .

Then. . . . CRRRAAACCCKKKK . . . . . Where I'd cut the recesses into the top of the board, weakened the board, and it split badly. On top of it all, even with the bolt tightened, and the cracked portion pulled way over, the hole was STILL too damn big to clamp the motor. Damn you, Murphy!

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Sewooooo---- back to the drawing board. Clamping the motor housing was the obvious best way to do the job, but without the proper size Forstner bits, what's a boy to do? While ruminating on the challenge, actually tending to slip into a little bit of a pity-party, I thought about my thickness sander project, now stalled, also the temporary victim of some setbacks. But while pondering that project, the pillow-block bearings came to mind, and bearing caps.

So I decided to try to clamp, but instead of a single slit with one side being drawn in, I'd manufacture a cap clamp, like the main bearings of a car motor crankshaft.

Bored the same hole, and then bored two vertical holes for long screws from the top of the board, that would hold the halves together when finally split.

Here's a shot of the final stage, before assembly, which probably 'splains what I was doing more clearly:
[IMG][/IMG]

And the finished job, with motor <<<securely>>> mounted in place. I may still try to find my roll of cloth friction tape so the motor fits very snugly in place before being clamped, but it is useable as is.


Sorry, didn't realized the shot was a little fuzzy until just now, but I think you can get the idea.

I'll post some more as progress continues. I've got some electronic parts ordered to make an optical sensor to trigger the counter, which hopefully will be more accurate and trouble free than a magnetically-triggered switch. But if the electronic circuit gives me trouble, I'm not above sticking a mag switch in there and running with that.

Rick

[elams1894]

Nice save on the clamp! Pickup winders are cool, opens up even more doors. Looking good and I'm keen to hear how your end products sound!

[Barncaster]

Hey Rick,

Way to go! As far as exorcising the wobble gremlins, I have found spending time truing the old drill press to really pay off. Concerning the motor mount, I used only one pinch mount which turned out to not be very stable or accurate. Two pinch mounts would cradle the motor housing and be much more accurate for alignment purposes. Also, the aluminum holder is trick. That center screw is a really good feature. Mind if I borrow that one?

Rob

[Bentley]

The speed is controlled by the increase in volts, correct? I'm not sure who it was who came up with the different amounts of batteries, but I think I may try it out.

Edit* Oh it was you! How much was the voltage controller?
Would this work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/3800W-0-220v...ht_2525wt_1186

[R. Stratenstein]

Originally Posted by Barncaster

Hey Rick,

Way to go! As far as exorcising the wobble gremlins, I have found spending time truing the old drill press to really pay off. Concerning the motor mount, I used only one pinch mount which turned out to not be very stable or accurate. Two pinch mounts would cradle the motor housing and be much more accurate for alignment purposes. Also, the aluminum holder is trick. That center screw is a really good feature. Mind if I borrow that one?

Rob

Good point, Rob. My vintage Craftsman drill press is getting a bit worn, and the chuck seems to grab bits unevenly at times. Wouldn't hurt to put a square on each chuck-up. Its good and tight now, but I think a few wraps of cloth friction tape would help really snug it up.

Regarding the center screw--are you kiddin? After the ideas of yours I've used . . . Man, knock yourself out. It does occur to me though, that Rob D's practice of wicking in a little CA between the slugs and flatwork would be a good way to help ensure that you don't collapse your bobbin. That and not over tightening the hold-down screw.

Originally Posted by Bentley

The speed is controlled by the increase in volts, correct? I'm not sure who it was who came up with the different amounts of batteries, but I think I may try it out.

Edit* Oh it was you! How much was the voltage controller?
Would this work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/3800W-0-220v...ht_2525wt_1186

Bentley-- correct on the speed control. My multi-battery idea would give you variable speeds, but in steps, not a smooth continuous increase like a pot. would give you. I think if you're careful, it would work OK as a rudimentary pickup winder speed controller. Whether the voltage regulator you linked to would work depends on the motor you use. I'm not sure it would work with low voltage DC motors we've been working with lately, though.

[Barncaster]

Hey Rick,

Watch the CA wicking. If there are ANY gaps between the magnets and the top flatwork, the CA will migrate all over it making a huge mess. If the mags are flush then you can sand the surface smooth an relacquer. If the mags are proud, oh well. I'm developing a dislike for CA.

Rob

[R. Stratenstein]

Originally Posted by Barncaster

Hey Rick,

Watch the CA wicking. If there are ANY gaps between the magnets and the top flatwork, the CA will migrate all over it making a huge mess. If the mags are flush then you can sand the surface smooth an relacquer. If the mags are proud, oh well. I'm developing a dislike for CA.

Rob

And after seeing the result of your CA potting experiment, who could blame you?

Maybe thick glue, sparingly applied, would do the trick without running all over the place?

[Barncaster]

Originally Posted by R. Stratenstein

And after seeing the result of your CA potting experiment, who could blame you?

Maybe thick glue, sparingly applied, would do the trick without running all over the place?

Hey Rick,

I think there is real value in gluing the magnets to the flatwork. The water thin CA just tends to go everywhere it shouldn't, kind of like an old girlfriend of mine..... Anyway, yes the thicker glue will probably make for less headaches. How is the winder coming? Have you picked your debut winding song yet? It should be project appropriate. It imparts special mojo to the pickup being wound. This of course could work either way. I know Arthur Brown works well for winding but I would stay away from Mitch Miller......... The goatee was cool but that's about where cool ended....

Rob

[jimdkc]

Paul McCartney "The Long and Winding Road"

or maybe...

Sheryl Crow, "Everyday is a Winding Road"

[Rob DiStefano]

use only water thin, hobby shop quality cya. use a needle nozzle - this is important and will only allow a drop of cya to spread. only wick in the cya to the insides of the bobbin, and a drop on each side of each mag pole. there will be no excees glue, dripping or spreading. i do this with every bobbin i build. it's just good insurance and now even more so since i'm moving on up to a live center lathe for holding on the bobbin.

[Barncaster]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

use only water thin, hobby shop quality cya. use a needle nozzle - this is important and will only allow a drop of cya to spread. only wick in the cya to the insides of the bobbin, and a drop on each side of each mag pole. there will be no excees glue, dripping or spreading. i do this with every bobbin i build. it's just good insurance and now even more so since i'm moving on up to a live center lathe for holding on the bobbin.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxs6gGVYHzQ">YouTube Link</a>

Thanks Rob,

Now I have "The Jeffersons" theme stuck in my head......

Rob

[Mojotron]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

use only water thin, hobby shop quality cya. use a needle nozzle - this is important and will only allow a drop of cya to spread. only wick in the cya to the insides of the bobbin, and a drop on each side of each mag pole. there will be no excees glue, dripping or spreading. i do this with every bobbin i build. it's just good insurance and now even more so since i'm moving on up to a live center lathe for holding on the bobbin.

...

Rob - how slow does that lathe go? The specs on that say that the lowest speed is 750 RPM - that would be about 11 Hz (CPS) - does it go a little slower, I really like my crappy AC motor because when I wind pickups I can get it down to like 1 Hz if I want to inspect the wind quickly while I'm setting the transverse limiters or trying to see if I have an even wind.

[Barncaster]

Originally Posted by Mojotron

Rob - how slow does that lathe go? The specs on that say that the lowest speed is 750 RPM - that would be about 11 Hz (CPS) - does it go a little slower, I really like my crappy AC motor because when I wind pickups I can get it down to like 1 Hz if I want to inspect the wind quickly while I'm setting the transverse limiters or trying to see if I have an even wind.

Yes, inquiring minds would like to know...;-)

[Rob DiStefano]

see this post ...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home...ml#post4359791

[anyone]

Originally Posted by Barncaster

Thanks Rob,

Now I have "The Jeffersons" theme stuck in my head......

Rob

Hah! That one got me too.

[R. Stratenstein]

Originally Posted by Barncaster

Hey Rick,

I think there is real value in gluing the magnets to the flatwork. The water thin CA just tends to go everywhere it shouldn't, kind of like an old girlfriend of mine..... Anyway, yes the thicker glue will probably make for less headaches. How is the winder coming? Have you picked your debut winding song yet? It should be project appropriate. It imparts special mojo to the pickup being wound. This of course could work either way. I know Arthur Brown works well for winding but I would stay away from Mitch Miller......... The goatee was cool but that's about where cool ended....

Rob

Hey, Rob--

Seems the fates are gaainst me just lately. I twisted or did something to my right knee, and it's so sore I can't bend it enough to bend to put on a sock. Hard concrete floor in shop is not recommended for a few days, hopefully things will heal up soon, but man, this hurts like nothin I've had in a long long time.

All is not lost, though, my electronic parts came in today, and I can sit at my desk and put the winder counter trigger together, and wire up the motor harness for the motor.

As far as a winding song goes, it's my intent to use my Stew Mac Strat pup kits as my test effort. Sooo--seems natural that a song prominently featuring a Strat would be in order. Something with a lot of Strat quack. Any suggestions? I have one in mind, but don't want to color the incoming suggestions.

Ive been wanting to get some of those micro droppers so I can control thin CA. It occurs to me that thick CA might make a ridge or hump at the joint of the slugs and flatwork.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by R. Stratenstein

Hey, Rob--

Seems the fates are gaainst me just lately. I twisted or did something to my right knee, and it's so sore I can't bend it enough to bend to put on a sock. Hard concrete floor in shop is not recommended for a few days, hopefully things will heal up soon, but man, this hurts like nothin I've had in a long long time.

bummers, sorry to hear. take zyflamend and put traumeel on the knee

All is not lost, though, my electronic parts came in today, and I can sit at my desk and put the winder counter trigger together, and wire up the motor harness for the motor.

As far as a winding song goes, it's my intent to use my Stew Mac Strat pup kits as my test effort. Sooo--seems natural that a song prominently featuring a Strat would be in order. Something with a lot of Strat quack. Any suggestions? I have one in mind, but don't want to color the incoming suggestions.

hah! i'll leave the songs to the players, all i wanna do is build good pups.

Ive been wanting to get some of those micro droppers so I can control thin CA. It occurs to me that thick CA might make a ridge or hump at the joint of the slugs and flatwork.

you really need to use quality water thin cya. i use hot stuff and buy it by the case - it's a luthier's friend.

....