Tenor guitar dimensions?

[bobbytouche]

Anyone have an Eastwood Warren Ellis model? I've never been around one so I've kinda had to guess at the neck and bridge measurements. This is the best I've been able to come with.

http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fr...ale=et&o=equal

[crazydave911]

No, no Warren Ellis model, I built my own LINK. What is it your needing to know? It's not like there's any one right size to these things. I built mine with a 23" scale because of the way I was stringing it up (CGDA). I highly recommend if your going to use that tuning to make the scale no longer than that. As for the other measurements, it depends on what is comfortable to you, there's a lot of wiggle room on these things and plenty of hardware available HERE. There are plenty of bridges, tuners, neck plates, bushings, etc as well as electronic parts. Tom will treat you right.
This is an excellent (if small) site about the subject LINK and this one has some useful info LINK. If you have a specific question, ask, we'll try to help




Dave

[bobbytouche]

Originally Posted by crazydave911

No, no Warren Ellis model, I built my own LINK. What is it your needing to know? It's not like there's any one right size to these things. I built mine with a 23" scale because of the way I was stringing it up (CGDA). I highly recommend if your going to use that tuning to make the scale no longer than that. As for the other measurements, it depends on what is comfortable to you, there's a lot of wiggle room on these things and plenty of hardware available HERE. There are plenty of bridges, tuners, neck plates, bushings, etc as well as electronic parts. Tom will treat you right.
This is an excellent (if small) site about the subject LINK and this one has some useful info LINK. If you have a specific question, ask, we'll try to help
Dave

Thank you so much, Dave. Long story short, I've never even been in the same room as a tenor guitar that I'm aware of. The only reason I ask about the Warren Ellis model is because I'm a huge fan of Nick cave and the Bad Seeds (which may be obvious from my Nick Cave avatar).

Anyhow, I have a nice pine body blank and a decent slab of maple that I got for cheap on the bay. I probably paid thirty bucks combined for the two pieces. But I don't even know where to start. I would have to guess the body and neck are quite a bit slimmer than a full size six string.

And that definitely makes sense that the dimensions can be toyed with quite a bit more than a typical six string. I think I may just need to spend more time researching usable bridges so I can get the neck measurements correct. And I will definitely be using a 23" scale. Aside from some vintage Gibsons I've seen around the net, it looks like 23" is the standard for tenors.

Who knows, I may be in over my head here, but the worst that can happen is I learn something.

I really appreciate the links, and your build turned out fantastic! I'll be sure to let you know if I have any questions (which I will).

Hmmm, this "long story short" wound up kinda long.

[crazydave911]

Originally Posted by bobbytouche

Hmmm, this "long story short" wound up kinda long.

, I understand . FWI, my neck is quite fat with a 1 3/4" nut, much wider than it needed to be because I wanted it that way. Some day I want to build one a little more conventional but I'm still not going real small as I like an 8 string. Now a 4 string on the other hand could be quite small, but hey, just make it comfortable for you.
At the moongazer website, you'll find several bridges, and if you don't find what you need exactly, just email Tom, he can get it made for you at a very reasonable price (I did just that as I wanted one larger than normal for a tenor). Look around, you'll find lots of goodies there

Good luck, and looking forward to it



Dave

[winny pooh]

What's your fav Cave album? Mine are abattoir blues/lyre & No more... Warren Ellis is great. I also dig the soundtrack for ...Jessie James.. & the Proposition.

[volowv]

i just build a tenor-ish guitar in the last challange round, here. it's an odd duck but you might get some ideas out of that thread. i made the bridge, pickup, etc. but moongazer has some cool stuff. i found that site after i was knee deep in the challenge, but i wasn't spending money so it didn't really matter.

for measurements, i used regular fender-ish sizes. the warren ellis nut is 1 5/16", which sounds right for a fender minus two strings. the number on mine that sticks in my head is 1 1/8", but that's probably the string to string spacing, plus 1/8" on each side equals 1 1/4". mine has a 20" scale, just because that's the size of the wood i had. you can do a lot with string gauges though. mine is strung 46, 36, 26, 17, which is the bottom of a pack of 10s. i wanted some metal on there to dig into. it's tuned G,D,G,B most of the time, but also A,D,G,B. there are a few videos at the end of the thread that will give you an idea of what this sounds like... but not surprisingly it sounds a lot like a guitar.

there is alot of thinking that goes into building something like this that doesn't show up in these threads. alot of the guitars here are built with the blueprint PDF and known measurements, but once you step off the path you have to make up your own. i lay out the neck on a large sheet of paper. you could tape a few 8x11s together. use a long ruler, draw out the nut, measure down 23", draw out the bridge, draw out the strings. get your base measurements from another guitar. i don't make blueprints exactly, i'm just making sure all the numbers are going to work when they are transfered to the actual wood. that ekips link will do all this for you i think, but if you do it yourself you are going to learn something that will serve you well in the future. or draw it out and verify with the ekips numbers.

dave and i pull from the same bag of tricks in alot of cases because neither one of us use templates. i think he was my biggest supporter this time around, i don't think i really thanked him enough. thanks dave!

[crazydave911]

Originally Posted by volowv

there is alot of thinking that goes into building something like this that doesn't show up in these threads

Amen brother

alot of the guitars here are built with the blueprint PDF and known measurements, but once you step off the path you have to make up your own

Google is your friend

i lay out the neck on a large sheet of paper. you could tape a few 8x11s together. use a long ruler, draw out the nut, measure down 23", draw out the bridge, draw out the strings. get your base measurements from another guitar. i don't make blueprints exactly, i'm just making sure all the numbers are going to work when they are transfered to the actual wood. that ekips link will do all this for you i think, but if you do it yourself you are going to learn something that will serve you well in the future. or draw it out and verify with the ekips numbers

Priceless info, also, if you live in a small town, make friends with the local butcher. Their white butcher paper (on a roll) is perfect for drawing out plans

dave and i pull from the same bag of tricks in alot of cases because neither one of us use templates. i think he was my biggest supporter this time around, i don't think i really thanked him enough. thanks dave!

Your quite welcome! Those old analog guys that still draw on paper have to stick together . The main reason I went with a bought bridge was my lack of facilities for metal work. There's only so much you can do in a bedroom without a bench vise

Oh and BTW, I reworking an old Russian design . Can't wait to finish my 12-string to start serious work on it. I think you'll love it!

[bobbytouche]

Originally Posted by winny pooh

What's your fav Cave album? Mine are abattoir blues/lyre & No more... Warren Ellis is great. I also dig the soundtrack for ...Jessie James.. & the Proposition.

I'm definitely a sucker for Let Love In and Murder Ballads. I've really been getting into The Lyre of Orpheus as well. And I certainly can't forget Dig, Lazarus, Dig. I love the direction they went with that Album. And of Course they're side Project Grinderman is Incredible.

By the way, I just saw The Proposition for the first time last week. Blew me away.

Glad to meet a fellow Cave fan!

[winny pooh]

Originally Posted by bobbytouche

I'm definitely a sucker for Let Love In and Murder Ballads. I've really been getting into The Lyre of Orpheus as well. And I certainly can't forget Dig, Lazarus, Dig. I love the direction they went with that Album. And of Course they're side Project Grinderman is Incredible.

By the way, I just saw The Proposition for the first time last week. Blew me away.

Glad to meet a fellow Cave fan!

Cool, great movie!

[bobbytouche]

Originally Posted by volowv

i just build a tenor-ish guitar in the last challange round, here. it's an odd duck but you might get some ideas out of that thread. i made the bridge, pickup, etc. but moongazer has some cool stuff. i found that site after i was knee deep in the challenge, but i wasn't spending money so it didn't really matter.

for measurements, i used regular fender-ish sizes. the warren ellis nut is 1 5/16", which sounds right for a fender minus two strings. the number on mine that sticks in my head is 1 1/8", but that's probably the string to string spacing, plus 1/8" on each side equals 1 1/4". mine has a 20" scale, just because that's the size of the wood i had. you can do a lot with string gauges though. mine is strung 46, 36, 26, 17, which is the bottom of a pack of 10s. i wanted some metal on there to dig into. it's tuned G,D,G,B most of the time, but also A,D,G,B. there are a few videos at the end of the thread that will give you an idea of what this sounds like... but not surprisingly it sounds a lot like a guitar.

there is alot of thinking that goes into building something like this that doesn't show up in these threads. alot of the guitars here are built with the blueprint PDF and known measurements, but once you step off the path you have to make up your own. i lay out the neck on a large sheet of paper. you could tape a few 8x11s together. use a long ruler, draw out the nut, measure down 23", draw out the bridge, draw out the strings. get your base measurements from another guitar. i don't make blueprints exactly, i'm just making sure all the numbers are going to work when they are transfered to the actual wood. that ekips link will do all this for you i think, but if you do it yourself you are going to learn something that will serve you well in the future. or draw it out and verify with the ekips numbers.

dave and i pull from the same bag of tricks in alot of cases because neither one of us use templates. i think he was my biggest supporter this time around, i don't think i really thanked him enough. thanks dave!

That's a fantastic looking tenor! I love the bridge design.

I'm definitely getting closer with my measurements. The only reason I'm using the Warren Ellis Measurements is because lot's of people own that tenor, so it's fairly easy to ask people over the web to measure certain things for me.

I contacted Eastwood and they were kind enough to tell me the string spacing on the bridge. I'm having a bit of trouble with the nut, however. I know it's a 1 5/16" nut, but with my limited knowledge, that doesn't help me too much with the string spacing due to the "overhang". Though using the ekips fretboard calculator and some other math that I'm not very good at, I think I've decided on 3/8" center to center.

Seems right to me anyhow

http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fr...ale=et&o=equal

[bobbytouche]

Ok, I think I've nailed down the all the measurements from nut to bridge.

http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fr...ale=et&o=equal

Next is going to be determining body thickness and heel measurements. Also body style. I think I wanna go with a solid flat top F-style mandolin body and headstock, but we'll see!

[crazydave911]

Originally Posted by bobbytouche

Ok, I think I've nailed down the all the measurements from nut to bridge

Cool! Now that you think you know what you'd like I have a suggestion. When I'm modeling something I've never built, I pick up a 4' long by 4" wide poplar plank, 3/4" thick, from Home Depot/Lowe's. I layout a centerline on the plank, strike a mark for a generic headstock, allow for a transition, strike a mark, then the nut, the bridge, the body etc then using a square mark a perpendicular line at each mark. Then I measure off the width I think I want each of these to be. Then, (much like making a neck-thru template) I draw my lines in for the neck, headstock, and the body (such as it is). Now here's the fun part, from the off cuts, slice a piece 1/4" thick and whittle out a primitive bridge & nut, to the width of your own measurements. Then I take my 7$ hobby plane and put an angle on the nut and a peak the length of the bridge. Take a rasp and knock the corners off the back of the neck (45 degrees is ok.........your testing ). Glue your nut in place (Elmer's is fine) then scrounge 4 tuners from the junk box and mount them. Cop a cheap set of guitar strings, and there may be some controversy here, but I used the .036,.026,.017 and the .010. These are ball end strings, so just drill 4 holes at the tail for finishing nails (your string anchors ) then string it up with 4 strings, insert the bridge and tune her up (make sure you've taken sandpaper and knocked off the sharp edges & splinters). No frets? Who cares . Get your string height right and see if this actually feels comfortable. It will play (a little at least) enough to tell you if these measurements actually work for you. This all may sound kinda involved, but I had some tuners and strings and knocked mine together for around 5$ in half a day (including some shellac ). This is how I knew, with my fat fingers, that I needed a little extra here and there. But the point being, I thrashed all this out with a board & scrap before cutting good wood . It's just a thought

Next is going to be determining body thickness and heel measurements. Also body style. I think I wanna go with a solid flat top F-style mandolin body and headstock, but we'll see!

One thing about the Moongazer site, whether it's the bridges, the tuners, the body blanks, etc., there are measurements everywhere . This will give you an idea of where to start. Most people seem to settle on an 1 1/4" or 1 3/8" thick body blank. Some go high as 1 1/2" (mine is 1 7/8", but it's a semi-hollow acoustic/electric). And of course your neck blank will likely start at 3/4" thick. Just a note here, just because your making an overall smaller instrument than a "normal" guitar, that doesn't mean it has to be tiny (unless that's specifically what you want). After all, with it's smaller dimensions and narrow little neck, an Rickenbacker 325 (John Lennon's little guitar) would make a perfect tenor, but it's not tiny. Remember, these choices are yours, not written in stone by what you are building. Can't wait to see what you come up with, a solidbody F-style sounds like a blast


Dave

[volowv]

just looking over your ekips numbers. you have a 3/32nds overhang, i usually go with 1/8". we are talking a 1/32nd, but i'd rather have the extra 32nd.

the bridge measurement you have is 1 7/8". moongazer has a bridge spaced at 1 3/4". i have this bridge for a build i'm working on right now. i'm not completely impressed with it, but this might be your best bet unless you plan on building your own. the springs are weak and the saddles don't touch. they are regular-sized saddles that they have just moved out to 1 3/4". in the website picture its obvious that this is what is happening but i'd just thought i'd give you a heads-up, if you decided to go down that path.

on the body style... i have a slab bodied, modified F-style 25.75" mando sitting on the back burner that you might find interesting. i cut out the sections of the f style that were going to prove difficult to sand and finish, modified the neck joint. its hollow, x-braced like the contest guitar. sapele and maple, probably weighs around 4lbs.

[crazydave911]

Originally Posted by volowv

just looking over your ekips numbers. you have a 3/32nds overhang, i usually go with 1/8". we are talking a 1/32nd, but i'd rather have the extra 32nd

+1

the bridge measurement you have is 1 7/8". moongazer has a bridge spaced at 1 3/4". i have this bridge for a build i'm working on right now. i'm not completely impressed with it, but this might be your best bet unless you plan on building your own. the springs are weak and the saddles don't touch. they are regular-sized saddles that they have just moved out to 1 3/4". in the website picture its obvious that this is what is happening but i'd just thought i'd give you a heads-up, if you decided to go down that path

You are correct, the bridge barrels on mine were nothing more than Fender Jaguar bridge barrels that had been chromed and the springs seem to be ink pin springs . The upside was, I needed a 2" string spread on mine and they custom made me one for only 10$ extra. Since my string spacing at the nut was 1 1/2", the bridge barrels did not noticeably pull together and have maintained their spacing.
This brings up an interesting point, since my build I have ordered bridge barrels, stirrups, springs and screws from Guitar Parts Resource, bought some 2" aluminum angle and now make my own. Are they pretty and chromed? No, but I can make what I want, when I want and it doesn't break the bank . But I was glad to have the custom job when I needed it



Dave

[bobbytouche]

Originally Posted by volowv

just looking over your ekips numbers. you have a 3/32nds overhang, i usually go with 1/8". we are talking a 1/32nd, but i'd rather have the extra 32nd.

the bridge measurement you have is 1 7/8". moongazer has a bridge spaced at 1 3/4". i have this bridge for a build i'm working on right now. i'm not completely impressed with it, but this might be your best bet unless you plan on building your own. the springs are weak and the saddles don't touch. they are regular-sized saddles that they have just moved out to 1 3/4". in the website picture its obvious that this is what is happening but i'd just thought i'd give you a heads-up, if you decided to go down that path.

on the body style... i have a slab bodied, modified F-style 25.75" mando sitting on the back burner that you might find interesting. i cut out the sections of the f style that were going to prove difficult to sand and finish, modified the neck joint. its hollow, x-braced like the contest guitar. sapele and maple, probably weighs around 4lbs.

That's pretty much the exact shape I'm hoping to build. There's a good machine shop in town here that can make a bridge for me and I'm pretty good at making nuts. I think my dimensions should work out ok, but I'm gonna take dave's advice and build a mock up to make sure.

That's a killer build!

[crazydave911]

Cool!

[bobbytouche]

Originally Posted by volowv

just looking over your ekips numbers. you have a 3/32nds overhang, i usually go with 1/8". we are talking a 1/32nd, but i'd rather have the extra 32nd.

I measured around on a few of my favorite guitars and I think you're right. 1/8" would be a bit more comfortable. Thanks for the suggestion!

Just posting this here to keep up with my latest measurements.
http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/fr...ale=et&o=equal

[bobbytouche]

Anybody know what dimensions would make for a solid neck pocket?

[crazydave911]

Originally Posted by bobbytouche

Anybody know what dimensions would make for a solid neck pocket?

Define your terms please . Not trying to sound like a physics proff here, but that question could lead a lot of different directions

[bobbytouche]

Originally Posted by crazydave911

Define your terms please . Not trying to sound like a physics proff here, but that question could lead a lot of different directions

Lol, of course. A typical Tele neck pocket is 2 3/8" x 3" x 5/8".
In the case of my tenor design so far, the last fret measures 2.0135".
Supposing I leave 7/16" after the last fret (as per the measurement on my MIJ '52 tele), The end of the heel would be 1.9189". (These are measurements in Adobe Illustrator.) Of course those last couple measurements are up for adjustment.

Really I'm more concerned with the "length" of the neck pocket. I feel like three inches would be overkill.