Most cost-effective way to go TOTALLY old-school?

[isaacoh]

Hey! I'm trying to consolidate much of my life right now by selling off a lot of stuff I don't need (furniture, extraneous musical instruments, etc)--so I can have just one electric guitar and one acoustic.

I know that I want the electric to be a "vintage"-styled tele--I'm having trouble deciding between a Broadcaster, Nocaster or blackguard tele... (which do you prefer?)

The AVRI '52 with case I could just buy for around 1000-1200 USD. On the other hand, I could go with Warmoth and Callaham parts (or grguitars) for about the same price.

Is there any way I could get appreciably cheaper with a partscaster and still maintain a level of quality, as well as get the total, 100% vintage package? I know I could grab a Baja and it would rock, but it just wouldn't be the "real" deal like an AVRI or a custom job...

What do y'all think the most cost-effective way to go about building one of these would be?

Thanks!
Isaac

*Edited for clarity.*

[jkingma]

Wrong forum. This is for "build" projects.

[isaacoh]

Originally Posted by jkingma

Wrong forum. This is for "build" projects.

Yeah, the question is how can I make a partscaster for cheaper than an AVRI, while still retaining all of the vintageness. I do intend to build one!

Sorry if that was unclear :p

[jkingma]

You said "getting one" not "building one".

Anyway... carry on. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[TRexF16]

Originally Posted by isaacoh

Hey! I'm trying to consolidate much of my life right now by selling off a lot of stuff I don't need (furniture, extraneous musical instruments, etc)--so I can have just one electric guitar and one acoustic.

*Edited for clarity.*

While it is correct, as previously stated, that this may not be the best forum in which to ask these questions, I have found the folks here to be very helpful, even for issues that may be a little off charter. So I think you will get some good advice here regardless.

But before we start, I have to know..."To what problem is this the solution?"

Consolidating your life is good, I suppose, but guitars do not really take up all that much space, compared to, for instance, a couch or armoire. And for the money you're talking for ONE electric, you could buy two or three VERY nice guitars that would give you true versitility and probably enrich your life more, which is, I sense, the overarching objective of this whole quest. None of the guitars you listed would be considered particularly "versitile", though they're all great instuments. And why have just one accoustic? I think you could get by much better with two - a nice classical accoustic, and a nice steel string (and here, your ears will tell you which ones are right) and two or three electrics (depending on what genres you want to play). For decades, a Tele, a Strat, or a Les Paul made just about all the great blues/rock music there was. This combo still works. These days though, it is possible to combine a lot of different tone capability into a single axe. But none of the candidates you listed really do this.

So I reckon all I'm saying is before you commit to a life with only two guitars, consider maybe having four to five instead - the budget you've layed out will more than cover very nice instuments as described above. And if you're set on only two, let us know what kinds of music you want to play and we can better help with the answer.

Best of luck,
Rex

[Picton]

As I see it, it depends on what quality level you're looking for; a perfectly good vintage-spec guitar could be had by modding a MIM standard to the tune of, say, $100. If you're looking for a premium guitar, I'd guess many folks around here would say you're unlikely to be able to build one for less than you'd be able to buy one used.

Many will also suggest a custom builder, like Ron Kirn.

Have you built a guitar before? It's not overwhelmingly difficult, but it's unlikely you'll get a top-quality instrument on the first try, IMHO. Unless you shell out some major bucks in parts and woodworking equipment, at which point... see paragraph 1.

Good luck!

[guitarbuilder]

Unless you want a flawless finish that you'd get with new, you might be better off buying some high quality used parts and assembling a partscaster. A warmoth body and neck and a pickguard with name brand pickups and electronics could probably be had for less than new. I'd check ebay and see what floats your boat. Allparts , USACG,and warmoth necks rival most anything out there. You can get it set up by a pro and have a nice guitar for less I bet. I'd bet you could get into a blackguard clone for under 500 that way. People go through guitars and parts faster than a lot of things. You might get a good bunch of parts for cheap. Assembling things aren't that hard once you know how to solder and use a screwdriver. You'd have a better chance of things fitting together too if they are top quality items.

[isaacoh]

Originally Posted by TRexF16

So I reckon all I'm saying is before you commit to a life with only two guitars, consider maybe having four to five instead - the budget you've layed out will more than cover very nice instuments as described above. And if you're set on only two, let us know what kinds of music you want to play and we can better help with the answer.

Best of luck,
Rex

Thanks for the thoughtful answer, Rex--mostly I'm just trying to simplify my life a little bit. I've always had many guitars but now that I'm intending to be a migrant grad student (I'm 22 now and finishing a couple of bachelor's degrees), I'd rather have just two guitars that I feel can do everything ("everything" in my case being straight-ahead jazz for gigs and some more avant-garde jazz for my own pleasure and anyone who will listen to me.)

Right now my three guitars I use are:

1955 Les Paul Jr. (Modded by some poor soul w/ 3 p90s), which actually is alarmingly versatile, due to its frankensteinian nature.

Yamaha Nippon Gakki (red label) Dreadnaught

and a Takamine Cp132SC nylon w/ cutaway and pickup.

I've just realized I could get by with only a tele and a (real classical) classical guitar. I might hang on to the Jr. because it's so odd and probably doesn't have any collector's value since it's been mutilated and refinished.


So, basically jazz is what I do and a tele is what I wanna do it with. I love Ted Greene and Ed Bickert as far as straight-ahead stuff goes, and I'm generally a vintage nut, and perhaps a minimalist at heart, though I get GAS like anyone else...

[isaacoh]

Oh also, regarding experience building, I may not have much experience with the plane, router and chisel, but yes I do have experience with a soldering iron and screwdriver--I've done plenty of maintenance on mine and others' guitars so I'm definitely not afraid of assembling/setting up a partscaster. In fact that should be part of the fun!

[guitar2005]

just one guitar? really?

[isaacoh]

Originally Posted by guitar2005

just one guitar? really?

Well, two or three if you count the '55 LP jr that I couldn't bear to part with :)

[Barncaster]

As Picton basically said,

Find a nice Tele that sounds and feels good and then spend $250 more on good electronics and booteak pickups to satisfy your ego and you're done. To build a guitar decently takes a shop full of expensive stuff and a lot of time and money to get good at using said stuff. Not for the ascetic type. We're more like Mr. Whoopie and his closet here as far as affinities go......

Barncaster

[czook]

Why not just buy a MIM tele, or a cv or cvc Squire? In a college town there has to be pawn shops, music stores, etc where you could pick up a bargain, after you have played it to see if that is what you really want.

[Jupiter]

What, more precisely, are the "100% vintage" specs you are thinking of? Do you mean vintage frets, 7.25" radius, and 3-barrel bridge, or do you need slotted PG screws and all that? Does it have to be nitro finish? Do you have to have heel trussrod adjustment?

[TRexF16]

isaacoh,

OK, now I get it...the 22 years old and migrant lifestyle fills in the "why" gaps. I had kind of pictured you on the other side of the hill (like me), and trying to simplify as you were settling down, not spooling up! When I was 22 (in 1982) I had only two guitars too (still have them both) - One of Bob Taylor's earliest accoustics, and a '67 Les Paul. They got the job done and moving around a lot was not too big a deal.

You have already gotten some good advice. I would echo the idea that if you are not hung up on a Fender-branded tele, the best way may be to find a high quality knock off, and upgrade it as desired with really nice electronics, which it sounds like you can easily do yourself. I bought a Korean made Samick Valley Arts Series tele copy for 90 bucks off of the local Craigslist and I am absolutely stunned by the quality of the build. The neck and finish is every bit as good as an American Tele. The pickups were lousy, but now they're upgraded and it's a great guitar. A path like this may be the cheapest to the end you seek.

Do you have an idea of what pickups you would want in your jazz tele? I have one guitar with the Fender Vintage Noiseless in bridge and neck. I am not very happy so far with the bridge, but the neck is devine for jazz tones. This is one you might consider for your neck pickup, based on my sample size of "1".

TDPRIers - What other suggestions for good jazz pickups?

Good luck, I look forward to hearing how this turns out

[isaacoh]

Originally Posted by Jupiter

What, more precisely, are the "100% vintage" specs you are thinking of? Do you mean vintage frets, 7.25" radius, and 3-barrel bridge, or do you need slotted PG screws and all that? Does it have to be nitro finish? Do you have to have heel trussrod adjustment?

Preferably all of that. I want it just like it could have come off of the line in 50-52... I imagine of all that the nitro finish would be the most expensive to replicate, so I might have to settle for a nice oil finish instead. But other than that, old school please!

TRex, I was thinking of the Duncan Antiquities just because they have a good reputation and they're "vintage spec"--in an ideal world I'd get a lollar charlie christian, but those are a bit expensive and require different body and pickguard routing. Watching the Tim Lerch videos on the 'tube, though, seems to indicate that they have a bitchin' jazz sound.

[Jupiter]

If you're going hard-core, check out Rutters Guitars for a body and hardware, and Musikraft for a neck. Not the cheapest way to go, but they can do excellent "vintage spec" work.

FWIW, I don't think nitro's all that expensive, really--certainly not gonna be the most expensive part of your project!

[czook]

Vintage correct, not old skool

Nitro, not oil or you have ruined the ambiance of a vintage guitar. The parts you mention are relatively expensive so money seems to not be an issue.

There are builders here who can make exactly what you want. I assume you have listened to the sound of vintage Tele's, but the twang is the signature sound, which would probably be really cool with Jazz, just not with Jazz purists.

[Jack FFR1846]

From a "less number of guitars" standpoint, you could go with a thicker bodied full hollow archtop and have both a good electric and a usable acoustic. I'm very partial to old Guilds, so would recommend looking over on the letstalkguild forums.

From a "cheaper" couple guitars standpoint....you say vintage. Heck....I could swap necks between my mim 72 thinline (vintage tuners) and my 02 mim alder and have the vintage tuners going with the 2 single coils. Then maybe swap the bridge for a vintage 3 barrel bridge and there you go. Sell off the thinline with the now modern tuners and I'd have 1 vintage kinda guitar for a few hundred dollars total investment.

[tele_pathic]

Several years ago, I built my own. Researched all the specs for a Fender Nocaster, then bought a body and neck from Warmoth. Bought the parts from various places: a genuine Fender 3 barrel, ashtray bridge, genuine Fender nocaster pups, Fender vintage-style tuners, 5 hole 1ply black pickguard. Warmoth neck is 9.5" radius, super beefy, jumbo frets. Body is finished in Vintage Blond, not butterscotch. With the exception of the flatter radius and jumbo frets, I have a pretty vintage guitar. I love it! Would never part with it, though other guitars have come and gone.

It's not a less expensive alternative as it cost ~$750, but it's cheaper than a used Nocaster!