Edge joining boards?

[andrewdoeshair]

How do you do it? I've been buyin S3S wood that joins easily, or just getting lucky with large enough pieces to make one piece bodies, but every time I hbe to join wood there is a little bit of luck involved. I've screwed a square steel bar into the wood, and used a router table with a flush trim bit- that's pretty close. I've used a jack plane, and it works okay. But in every case its hit or miss sometime takes 10 minutes, sometimes 2 hours and some swear words. I'm buying a jointer tonight. But I'm still open to hear your experiences. Thanks

[andrewdoeshair]

This works OKAY, but is just imperfect enough that I end up blowing it trying to sand or plane it to perfection.

[Midnighttoil]

I use a #7 Union jointer plane. It produces the best edge you can get; better than a router or a jointer. Get some pine 2x4s and learn to sharpen a plane iron if you don't already know how to do it well. A #5 plane should make a great edge if used with a shooting board.

It's good enough for William Cumpiano, the author of "Guitarmaking, Tradition and Technology." He says that power planers produce a ridged surface that is an artifact of the discontinuous nature of the cutting motion of rotating blades. He joins his guitar tops with a jack plane in a jig, upside down.

[guitarbuilder]

You buy a jointer. That's what they do best. A plane is nice but there's a learning curve to it that I think takes a little longer to learn than a jointer does :-). YMMV.
It's all about what you like to do.

[Colt W. Knight]

My jointing woes dissappeared after I purchased this beauty.

[Midnighttoil]

I'm gonna call Picton, hand tool user extraordinaire, and have him beat you guys up!

Not many people want to deal with hand tools and their learning curve. On the other hand, I can <still> afford to eat! (Wow, Colt, what is that thing?; Looks like it arrived on a really big truck. Is that its little brother in the background?)

[Atlas Stands]

A hand plane would be the best way to get a good joint, but yes there is a learning curve to it. It is also the most gratifying way to do it though and yields the best results. Hand planes have been around for centuries and there is a whole culture built around them. It is a single blade making a single cut, instead of two or three blades taking small cuts close together.

On a microscopic level the hand plane wins hands down. Technically if we talk about abrasives there is no better finish than a hand plane, no mater how high the sandpaper used it will not be as nice as a good hand plane finish. A hand plane has a grit of 1, a very wide grain with a grit number of 1.... Anything higher than a grit of 1 and you have to go to the highest number possible to mask imperfections to even come close to a 1 grit hand plane cut. I'm sure I'm clear as mud, sorry if I cause any confusion, I just find this stuff fascinating.

A 6 inch powered jointer would help you out quickly, but would cost a bit more. you can find them regularly, used, for under 200.

Very pleased to see you entering the wood working field!

Kind Regards,
Josh

[Picton]

Originally Posted by doctorrockit

I'm gonna call Picton, hand tool user extraordinaire, and have him beat you guys up!

Not many people want to deal with hand tools and their learning curve. On the other hand, I can <still> afford to eat! (Wow, Colt, what is that thing?; Looks like it arrived on a really big truck. Is that its little brother in the background?)

Smackdown!

Actually, it is all about what you like to do. It does take time and practice to handplane the right way, but what Atlas Stands says is correct (and it's not just him that says it); a handplane produces the smoothest surface.

But a smooth surface is useless if the edges don't line up perfectly. So if you don't want to spend the time learning to plane, and/or have the money for a decent jointer, and/or don't mind lots of noise and sawdust, then do get a jointer.

As usual, I'll recommend Garrett Hack's The Handplane Book for anyone interested. Practice makes perfect, but Hack's book is a stellar introduction to the wonderful world of planes.

Happy woodworking, Andrew; I always like your builds.

[guitarbuilder]

I don't think everyone has a hand tool personality though.... while I certainly appreciate the patience and skills of hand tool woodworking, it's just not my particular thing. What isn't ever really mentioned in these discussions is the time and effort put in to sharpen the irons on those rascals, and that is another thing altogether.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by doctorrockit

I'm gonna call Picton, hand tool user extraordinaire, and have him beat you guys up!

Not many people want to deal with hand tools and their learning curve. On the other hand, I can <still> afford to eat! (Wow, Colt, what is that thing?; Looks like it arrived on a really big truck. Is that its little brother in the background?)

That is a Grizzly 8" Jointer. In the time guys take to posistion their wood on the bench, I am already through jointing the edge. I have some nice hand planes that I use for various tasks, but when it comes to jointing, a quality jointer is the way to go, IMO.

The Craftsman behind the Grizzly is a worthles POS, and if it didn't belong to my grand pa, I would have thrown it out years ago.

[Atlas Stands]

true but once you have them sharp they are easy to maintain. My big thing is I can plane by hand while the kids are in bed, it's a quiet way to work, and peaceful. I use both though depending on the task at hand. Edge planing is much easier than surface planing, very fast and simple as long as the run-out doesn't change direction on you.

Has anyone talked to you about planing with the vs against grain runout? It pertains to jointers too, prevents tear out. Maybe someone can explain better than I can...

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by Atlas Stands

Has anyone talked to you about planing with the vs against grain runout?

I'm sure you don't mean to be patronising, but it kinda sounds that way.

[Atlas Stands]

My apologies, no, that was not my intention. Trying to be of help. Sorry my comments came across that way.

Kind Regards,
Josh

[andrewdoeshair]

I've used a No.5 jack plane to join boards before every time I think I have it down, though, I have a humbling experience. Then I figured it was because I was using a $30 Buck Bro's plane, so I invested in a $100 Stanley. Still hit or miss. So now I look at the $300 Veritas jointer plane with fence- MAYBE it'll help me. But maybe I'll be $430 into planes at that point and still have troubles. I have learned all of this throug an absent teacher- YouTube videos, forums like this one. I think I need an old guy to show me the way of the plane in person... I am typing this via iPhone as I lean on the Porter Cable bench joiner at Lowes. I'm going to give this thing a try, but I don't intend to quit planes all together (I rely on it for my arm contours still).




I'm at a crossroads now. I bought tools that are sufficient for building a few guitars, but now that I'm trying to build 6 bodies per week, my tools aren't cutting it. I threw away my Ryobi router and bought 3 Porter Cable routers instead. I'm streamlining every aspect of my building process, but when I score rough lumber like this, the edges stop me before I even start. It's just been a reoccurring problem that I can't seem to lock down. I've got my trusted methods I use for everything else, now that I've made around 100 bodies, but not a tool in my shop can create a straight, square edge! My dad asked me last week if I could cut a random piece of wood for him, and in a room full of guitars I made from scratch, I had to tell him I wasn't able to do it! Grrrrrr....

[Atlas Stands]

cool pic, I'd like to build guitars someday. Sounds like the jointer is the way to go. The 8 inch grizzly is awesome! I've got a 6 inch jointer and wish it was 8.

[bullfrogblues]

I have an old Miller Falls No. 140 hand plane, but I'm not proficient in its use.
I rely more on this: 8" Jointer

[Atlas Stands]

Originally Posted by bullfrogblues

I have an old Miller Falls No. 140 hand plane, but I'm not proficient in its use.
I rely more on this: 8" Jointer

nice!

[Midnighttoil]

Hey, Andrew, I noticed that the board that you're edge planing in the picture is warped. I've found that when I work with even slightly warped boards, I must reach appropriately square and parallel sides before I join. It doesn't matter if you're using hand or power tools; square is square. If this is making you nuts, then it sounds like a workflow or process problem. Six guitars at a time has great potential for crazy making! Good luck.

[mgdesigns]

I'll throw my hat in this ring - I hand engrave - nothing can produce a high shine cut on metal like a graver. Similarly, a plane is a high shine cut on wood. A router or a joiner, or a planer is like a Dremel rotary tool in comparison. But for wood - the irregularities combined with good glue can make for a solid joint. Good?

[Picton]

At your volume, I'd suggest a jointer. I happily handplane, but then I only make one or two instruments a year. Heck, If I was building six bodies per week, even I'd get a jointer.