Relicing a body - getting the nitro to crack/craze

[scratchman]

Hello all.

I've finished a Tele body using nitro and after 11 months of the body sitting in the sunshine (well, occasional sunshine, this is the UK!) I wanted to get the finish to crack as it's a relic project. I've used a -50 freeze spray on the finish but am getting no change at all. The finish is solid and I used plenty of coats of clear (before sanding back of course). Any ideas why I'm getting no effect? Too thin?

Many thanks!

[Muzikp]

The freeze spray worked really well on mine. Is the guitar body already cold when you hit it with the freeze spray? I stuck mine in the sun for an hour or so and then hit it with freeze spray and I got little crazing type cracks all over.

I also stuck it in our extra freezer for about 2 weeks (I sorta forgot about it, I had a lot going on). When I took it out it had nice cracks all over the finish.

In the pictures the bigger cracks are the ones that happened from being in the freezer and the little tiny cracks (if they show up in the pic) are from the freeze spray.









It also helps the cracks to show up if you rub something dark into them right away. I found the nitro sorta healed itself a bit so having something smeared into the fresh cracks helped.

[sfcmark]

Originally Posted by Muzikp

...I also stuck it in our extra freezer for about 2 weeks (I sorta forgot about it, I had a lot going on). When I took it out it had nice cracks all over the finish...

I was going to suggest the freezer trick. I would think it will work best if it is removed to a very warm room.

@Muzikp - Where did you get the single-ply humbucker pickguard? Is it Bakelite/Garolite?

[bluecar]

What is the "freeze spray" ??

Thanks,
BC

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by sfcmark

I was going to suggest the freezer trick. I would think it will work best if it is removed to a very warm room.

@Muzikp - Where did you get the single-ply humbucker pickguard? Is it Bakelite/Garolite?

SFC - If you need a bakelite guard with a hummer route, send me a PM. I am making a batch of guards this weekend, and I am sending one to another member. I can send you one too.

[kwerk]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

SFC - If you need a bakelite guard with a hummer route, send me a PM. I am making a batch of guards this weekend, and I am sending one to another member. I can send you one too.

Go the TDPRI!

Good man, Colt.

[MrTwang]

Originally Posted by scratchman

Hello all.

I've finished a Tele body using nitro and after 11 months of the body sitting in the sunshine (well, occasional sunshine, this is the UK!) I wanted to get the finish to crack as it's a relic project. I've used a -50 freeze spray on the finish but am getting no change at all. The finish is solid and I used plenty of coats of clear (before sanding back of course). Any ideas why I'm getting no effect? Too thin?

Many thanks!

Rather than leaving it in the sunshine, I know som reliquers heat the guitar with a hairdryer before applying the freeze spray to make the difference between hot and cold more extreme.

[felis]

Originally Posted by scratchman

Hello all.

I've finished a Tele body using nitro and after 11 months of the body sitting in the sunshine (well, occasional sunshine, this is the UK!) I wanted to get the finish to crack as it's a relic project. I've used a -50 freeze spray on the finish but am getting no change at all. The finish is solid and I used plenty of coats of clear (before sanding back of course). Any ideas why I'm getting no effect? Too thin?

Many thanks!

Too much plastics in modern nitro lacquers? I’m by no means an expert on paint or relicing, but I’ve read this: http://www.ruokangas.com/?p=7067

[motor_city_tele]

Freeze Spray is the only thing that worked for me. I've tried going from a hot spot to the freezer overnight - nuthin, went from 5 degrees F to holding it in front of the furnace register - nuthin. I use auto air conditioner charge and actually pour the liquid onto the body. I then rub shoe polish and liquid dye into the cracks before they close back up.

[sfcmark]

Originally Posted by felis

Too much plastics in modern nitro lacquers? I’m by no means an expert on paint or relicing, but I’ve read this: http://www.ruokangas.com/?p=7067

I suppose it's possible in some cases. The spec sheet for Deft lacquer shows 15.5% plasticising alkyd by weight, where the MSDS for Minwax lists none. Perhaps that's why some people find the Deft to be slow in curing and "softer."

[jefrs]

Liquid Nitrogen "LN2" which can be had from welding suppliers boils at 77K = -196°C

It is very, very, very cold! and requires careful handling but is not what we would call dangerous.

[Muzikp]

Originally Posted by sfcmark

I was going to suggest the freezer trick. I would think it will work best if it is removed to a very warm room.

@Muzikp - Where did you get the single-ply humbucker pickguard? Is it Bakelite/Garolite?

I made it from a Garolite sheet that I ordered from McMaster Carr. I think Colt is the one that directed me to the correct material to order. I got a very large sheet of it for about $20. I've cut multiple guards from the one sheet and still have a lot left.

But it sounds a lot easier to just give Colt your address .

[Muzikp]

Originally Posted by bluecar

What is the "freeze spray" ??

Thanks,
BC

This is what I used which is what I was calling freeze spray.

[bluecar]

Thanks !!

BC

[sfcmark]

Originally Posted by Muzikp

I made it from a Garolite sheet that I ordered from McMaster Carr. I think Colt is the one that directed me to the correct material to order. I got a very large sheet of it for about $20. I've cut multiple guards from the one sheet and still have a lot left.

But it sounds a lot easier to just give Colt your address .

I reckon it might.

I already found the right Garolite to order from McM-C (for future reference) in a thread I started the other day. I just like to track down all the sources I can as I go along; I found a $20 savings on my chosen bridge that way last week.

[Olgabowl]

Originally Posted by scratchman

Any ideas why I'm getting no effect? Too thin?

Did you dent and ding your finish before the heat/freeze treatment??
You really need those dings in there to give the finish a place to check from...

[Maricopa]

Too much plastics in modern nitro lacquers? I’m by no means an expert on paint or relicing, but I’ve read this: http://www.ruokangas.com/?p=7067

I'm sure there are chemical differences in lacquer make up over the decades and yes, lacquers made for stringed instruments do have plasticizers in them because not everyone wants their one year old guitar to look like shi...er, um..I mean, cool and old.
However, Mr. Ruokangas is leaving out that these ultra-thin old vintage lacquer finishes have been curing...and losing plasticizers....for 40, 50, 60 or more years. The reason they are so hard and so thin is because they are old, worn and have sunk tremendously from when they were new.

BTW, I have a 79 yr old wood body National that's lacquer finish gets sticky under my arm just like he claims only modern lacquers do.

[scratchman]

Thanks all for your input. I tried yesterday to do the hairdryer/freeze spray combination and on close inspection I DID get some checking. However I think it is only happening in places where the finish is thickest. I will try it again and this time rub something into the cracks because as someone has said, the lacquer seems to have 'healed' over and so I can't see anything now.

[steve_robinson]

Stick it in the deep freeze overnight, warm up and repeat.

I find that gives crazing across the grain which looks to me more natural than the china plate crazing of the chill spray technique.

[tangelolemon]

Originally Posted by Maricopa

BTW, I have a 79 yr old wood body National that's lacquer finish gets sticky under my arm just like he claims only modern lacquers do.

triglycerides in some peoples' skin oil act as a plasticizer, as well. Some people have higher triglyceride content in their bodies than others. I'm pretty sure that's what causes the 'finish getting softer under the arm' thing on older guitars.

I've had old guitars before that get gummy, while others of the same make, model and year do not. Sometimes I think it depends on the chemical composition of the skin oils of whomever owned it the longest.