Another paisley build

[adirondak5]

Well , here we go again , started messing around with this now because the weather is keeping me from clearing the neck for my thinline build. I picked up a few swatches of paisley material a while back and glued up a nice alder 2 piece blank , so to keep myself from going stir crazy I'll see if I can get a little done on this project.

nice clear alder for a 2 piece blank



got the edges nice and square and flat on the jointer



a little Tite Bond Original





clamped up



after a day in clamps ran the blank through the 16-32 , got it nice and flat





got out my template and drilled for the screw holes to hold it down , installed the screws and traced the outline





to the band saw



here's the swatches of paisley I picked up

A



B


Not 100% positive but I'll probably be using swatch A for this build

I'm not set on anything positive yet as far as gluing the paisley material to the body , I see some folks using Mod Podge clear gloss glue , I see some using regular Titebond , I think I'll experiment a little.

scrap of alder , Titebond, brush and piece of paisley cloth



Titebond spread out over scrap wood with brush




used a mini paint stick for a squeegee






If the Titebond works good on the scrap
my plan is when the glue sets up trim the edges close to the body , spray or brush on sealer , when sealer is dry , trim out cavities , do round over , sand and clear , and either sea foam or surf green burst and sides. If the Titebond method doesn't work I'll look into the Mod Podge . We'll see , I've been know to change my mind a time or two. Anybody have any comments or suggestions ,
jump right in.

[Tommy Curtiss]

Keep on going!!!! I'ma watchin'

[Colt W. Knight]

Man thats some good looking Alder, looks like Ash.

Did you have any problems with the titebond bleeding through the cloth?

[crazydave911]

Welllllll, not that I have one, not updated recently that is getting cloth on the top , my choice, FWIW, is Elmer's white glue, the school/hobby aisle flavor. The reason I've used this in the past-it dries perfectly clear, it can be cut (slightly) with water so it can be spread easier to fill the weave (thin coats). Now the kicker, I've only done this with cotton or linen and it seems to work well with those natural fibers. I've never used it on synthetics (or used synthetics come to think of it) so YMMV. I've used modge on newsprint, posters and wallpaper, and once elmer's with wallpaper, all these worked well. Depending on the cloth, you can also use polyurethane to fill cloth weave, but you only get one shot at it, because if you mess it up, there's no way to fix it as you can only sand down to the weave. Plus, what your going to clear it with may rule that out.
Not that I've ever given this much thought

Dave

[adirondak5]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

Man thats some good looking Alder, looks like Ash.

Did you have any problems with the titebond bleeding through the cloth?

Colt , its been about 4 hours since I glued the cloth on , I don't see any bleed through or color difference , I think this will work , I saw a tutorial on project guitar I believe on this , I think I can brush on or spray on sand and sealer (probably brush on) to get the cloth burried good. And as Dave mentioned Elmers white glue may be even a better choice , think I'll try a sample with the Elmers. Here's a pic I just took , I have a piece of cloth laying on it that was not glued just for comparrison , but it looks good to me , I see no bleed through or color change .
The alder is beautiful , I got that from Keim Lumber in Ohio , they have some really nice lumber there.

Originally Posted by crazydave911

Welllllll, not that I have one, not updated recently that is getting cloth on the top , my choice, FWIW, is Elmer's white glue, the school/hobby aisle flavor. The reason I've used this in the past-it dries perfectly clear, it can be cut (slightly) with water so it can be spread easier to fill the weave (thin coats). Now the kicker, I've only done this with cotton or linen and it seems to work well with those natural fibers. I've never used it on synthetics (or used synthetics come to think of it) so YMMV. I've used modge on newsprint, posters and wallpaper, and once elmer's with wallpaper, all these worked well. Depending on the cloth, you can also use polyurethane to fill cloth weave, but you only get one shot at it, because if you mess it up, there's no way to fix it as you can only sand down to the weave. Plus, what your going to clear it with may rule that out.
Not that I've ever given this much thought

Dave

Hey Dave , I am going to pick some Elmers white glue up and try a sample piece , thanks for the suggestion , looks like the Titebond will work but I want to be sure , I am going to try brush on sand and sealer , probably Deft or Minwax to fill the weave and bury the cloth , then clear nitro . I am going to do up the sample pieces with the brush on sand and sealer to be sure it will work before I get to the body.

[crazydave911]

Originally Posted by adirondak5

Hey Dave , I am going to pick some Elmers white glue up and try a sample piece , thanks for the suggestion , looks like the Titebond will work but I want to be sure , I am going to try brush on sand and sealer , probably Deft or Minwax to fill the weave and bury the cloth , then clear nitro . I am going to do up the sample pieces with the brush on sand and sealer to be sure it will work before I get to the body.

Hey, the Titebond may work just fine. The only reason I didn't use it (which doesn't apply here), is the one time I tested it (and it was on a sort of shell white, lace type cloth) it gave the cloth a sort of beige color cast I wasn't going for. As I said, that doesn't apply here and as a matter of fact, probably wouldn't on most coverings. The one I did was a wedding present, a duo-sonic look-alike and the covering was actual material from the wedding dress (no I don't have any pics ). It was a gift from the maid of honor (who drove me nuts ), I used a poplar body and maple neck. As I understand it, the guitar is doing fine, the marriage is not

Dave

[adirondak5]

Just went to Lowes , picked up some Titebond white wood glue , dries clear , or so the label says , did a little test piece with the paisley and alder , I know , was gonna get some Elmer's Glue All but this caught my eye , so we'll see what happens .



We'll see if the sploch of glue on the right side does in fact dry clear.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by adirondak5

Just went to Lowes , picked up some Titebond white wood glue , dries clear , or so the label says , did a little test piece with the paisley and alder , I know , was gonna get some Elmer's Glue All but this caught my eye , so we'll see what happens .



We'll see if the sploch of glue on the right side does in fact dry clear.

I don't know about the titebond moulding glue, but Titebond Orignal doesn't dry clear. Neither does Elmers.

[JeradP]

WOW
The one with teal and yellow is now my favorite pattern of all time. I can't wait to see it done

[adirondak5]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I don't know about the titebond moulding glue, but Titebond Orignal doesn't dry clear. Neither does Elmers.

I agree Colt , that's why all the test pieces , the piece with the original titebond is showing no bleeding or discoloration , we'll see what happens when it gets some sanding sealer on it , the titebond molding glue I just did that piece , so that'll wait a while before I know anything .

Originally Posted by JeradP

WOW
The one with teal and yellow is now my favorite pattern of all time. I can't wait to see it done

Glad you like it Jerad , it'll be a while , I'm getting a lot of projects on the table (at the same time) which is par for the course for me.

[adirondak5]

Looks like the Titebond Molding and Trim White glue does dry pretty clear



Here's the test piece with the white glue



Here's the test piece with the Original Titebond



So far I am leaning towards the Titebond Molding and Trim Glue , although I see no bleeding or fade on the test piece with the Titebond Original it just seems to me to make sense to use a glue that dries clear , I still need to test these pieces with some sand and sealer to see what happens , probably get to that tomorrow.

[crazydave911]

That guitar, is going to kill

[tvvoodoo]

With various tests I have done, the way I would approach this on my future fabric finish will be thusly - I'm going to totally soak the fabric in glue, until its saturated, then lay it down. Thats the only way I think I will be able to use the cloth I plan on using, which is somewhat similar to yours, darker but a rayon blend - without the spotting and bleeding.



I don't have a test photo, but on the plywood I glued it a chunk to it worked really great, and in my estimation will greatly diminish the build up and levelling process

just an idea

[JPTannercaster]

If your putting lacquer on it for the clear finish, I would try and saturate that test piece of fabric with lacquer and see how the glue underneath holds up. On this tweed job I done on my cousin's Strat, I had great luck with a 3M Spray adhesive. It was very sticky to work with and is still holding just as strong as the day I sprayed it on. My first test piece was done with a waterbased contact cement. It went on smooth and easy and seemed to hold well but once the lacquer hit it and soaked in, it lost it's adhesion to the wood. The lacquer was too hot for it I guess. I was hoping the contact cement worked because of how simple it was to put on but I'm glad I done a test piece prior to covering the entire guitar first. Don't know how similar the titebond is to waterbased contact cement but I know for sure I wouldn't use the wbcc again for this kind of project. You can buy some Tolex glue for refinishing amp cabinets and it holds up fine underneath lacquer too. Good luck with it. Can't wait to see how it turns out for ya.

[adirondak5]

Originally Posted by crazydave911

That guitar, is going to kill

Thanks Dave , I think it will look good if I can get the paisley applied correctly . Another learning experience , maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks

Originally Posted by tvvoodoo

With various tests I have done, the way I would approach this on my future fabric finish will be thusly - I'm going to totally soak the fabric in glue, until its saturated, then lay it down. Thats the only way I think I will be able to use the cloth I plan on using, which is somewhat similar to yours, darker but a rayon blend - without the spotting and bleeding.



I don't have a test photo, but on the plywood I glued it a chunk to it worked really great, and in my estimation will greatly diminish the build up and levelling process

just an idea

Thanks for the ideas tvvoodoo , that is some nice fabric you got there , that should look killer , I am going to be doing more test work , hopefully today and see what this does when sand and sealer is applied , I want to get this right before gluing anything to the body , I have seen paisley's done with the Mod Podge glue where they did just what you suggest. The only negative I have heard of with the Mod Podge is that it stays soft or elastic , and a pain to sand level. I think I can saturate the material with the Titebond Molding glue if need be , it dries pretty clear , we'll see what develops.

Originally Posted by JPTannercaster

If your putting lacquer on it for the clear finish, I would try and saturate that test piece of fabric with lacquer and see how the glue underneath holds up. On this tweed job I done on my cousin's Strat, I had great luck with a 3M Spray adhesive. It was very sticky to work with and is still holding just as strong as the day I sprayed it on. My first test piece was done with a waterbased contact cement. It went on smooth and easy and seemed to hold well but once the lacquer hit it and soaked in, it lost it's adhesion to the wood. The lacquer was too hot for it I guess. I was hoping the contact cement worked because of how simple it was to put on but I'm glad I done a test piece prior to covering the entire guitar first. Don't know how similar the titebond is to waterbased contact cement but I know for sure I wouldn't use the wbcc again for this kind of project. You can buy some Tolex glue for refinishing amp cabinets and it holds up fine underneath lacquer too. Good luck with it. Can't wait to see how it turns out for ya.

Thanks JP , gonna do what you suggest today on the test piece , if you don't mind me asking , what 3M spray adhesive did you use on that Strat ? And by the way that Strat is gorgeous , very nice work there. Like I said before , I want to get this right before I go near the body with the glue and paisley , like you said , glad you did a test piece first .

[adirondak5]

Sprayed some deft sanding sealer on the test piece , gonna let it dry up a bit and spray a little more , soaked the material pretty good , don't see any spltching on either side with either type of Titebond , so far so good .

[adirondak5]

OK , the Titebond white glue seemd to soften up and become elastic , gummy , I pulled the swatch of material off that side , took a bit of effort , I think it would hold but ---- the Titebond original held strong , that side was not coming off , here's some pics , looks good with the deft sand and sealer on it , not a good spray job , just a test piece , I think this will work with the Titebond Original . The Deft does darken the material a bit , but to such a small extent I would not worry about it , the material is burried in the sealer , no blotchyness or bleeding .





here's the Titebond white glue side

[flatfive]

Great job with the careful tests, Herb!

[adirondak5]

Originally Posted by flatfive

Great job with the careful tests, Herb!

Thanks Glenn , I have rushed through some projects in the past and ended up having to do things over , not to say I won't do that again but I am trying to figure out plans of attack before hand now.

[JPTannercaster]

I used the 3M Super 77 spray adhesive. It's hard to get off your fingers so wear some rubber or latex gloves if you have any and cover up everything around where your spraying because it'll get everywhere somehow. It sets up real well if you apply it to both the wood and material, let it dry for about 45 seconds and stick together. FYI I used Deft Brushing Lacquer and saturated the tweed very heavily with about 8-10 coats with no lifting or releasing of the glue at all. The spray lacquer I had wouldn't build up and soak into the material enough. I sprayed my tweed tele that I built first and have recently decided to pull it apart and brush the lacquer on now.