Flame Top Stratocaster Build

[TRexF16]

Those wiring diagrams are making my head hurt. I am SO glad there are folks here who can decipher that stuff and help out a Noob like me some day when the time comes for me to wire something this ambitious. I hope it souds awesome when complete and would love to hear a video clip with a demo.

I'm not worthy,
Rex

[MikeMurray]

Love your builds man :)

My dream strat is pretty much identical, just a black body.

Like your pickup and wiring choices too.

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by Holyoli

Hi Guitarnut, very nice strat going on!

About your last wiring schem : I've looked quite a bit over the net as I have just wired my tele with 2 volume, no tone, and a 3 way switch.

It's seems that connecting the pickup to the wiper (as you do it with the hb) is not recommended. You won't have the interaction with the other pickup (= when one vol is grounded the two are grouded so you have no sound... ) but it will suck the tone of the pickup.
Excepted in rickenbackers and some basses that don't have a switch, you won't find this type of wiring in les pauls for instance, or on seymour duncan site where there are a lot of wiring diagrams. One can reasonably think that Gibson would have done it stock if it was the solution.
So it seems like a necessary compromise, but it works within its limitaions (at least for me:-)

Thanks!

The points you make are why I'm interested to see how a treble bleed affects things over all. If you would share you results, that would be great.

From my research on this wiring I think the real consideration is how the tone cap is fed. If it's fed from the PU, then the hi frequency loss affects the full output of the PU. If it's fed from the output of the pot, the hi frequency loss is after the pot has altered the output of the PU.

For illustration purposes, let's say the treble loss with the tone at 10 is 5%. When connected to the PU, it would be -5% of 100%. When connected to the output of the vol pot, which may drop the signal by 10%, the loss would be -5% of 90%. The latter produces a lower output but with greater treble content. 5% loss vs 4.5% loss respectively. The tone cap in my circuit is fed after the HB volume pot.

Peace,
Mark

[Holyoli]

Originally Posted by Guitarnut

From my research on this wiring I think the real consideration is how the tone cap is fed. If it's fed from the PU, then the hi frequency loss affects the full output of the PU. If it's fed from the output of the pot, the hi frequency loss is after the pot has altered the output of the PU.

Yes, but that was not my point : if I understand you well, you are concerned about the place of the cap : from the input or from the output of the vol pot to the tone pot. This is what people refer as modern or trad lespaul wiring. Try it and you'll see what suits you the best. More info here for instance : http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...g-library.html
My concern was the wiring from the hb pickup to the volume pot ; even witout a tone pot, if you connect the hb output to the wiper and go out from from the outer lug, you will have tone sucking because of the way the pickup is grounded when you turn the vol down. The only way to have real independent volume control is to have a blend pot..., but once again the way gibson wires the 2 pickups works to some extend
Hope that helps, sorry for my english...

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by Holyoli

Yes, but that was not my point : if I understand you well, you are concerned about the place of the cap : from the input or from the output of the vol pot to the tone pot. This is what people refer as modern or trad lespaul wiring. Try it and you'll see what suits you the best. More info here for instance : http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...g-library.html
My concern was the wiring from the hb pickup to the volume pot ; even witout a tone pot, if you connect the hb output to the wiper and go out from from the outer lug, you will have tone sucking because of the way the pickup is grounded when you turn the vol down. The only way to have real independent volume control is to have a blend pot..., but once again the way gibson wires the 2 pickups works to some extend
Hope that helps, sorry for my english...

Your English is fine and I appreciate your input. I understand what you're saying. Maybe I wasn't clear in my response.

This is from the link you posted above. I've seen this in many forums and the only concern I've read about is the potential for noise when the vol is all the way down since the PU is grounded and not the amp signal.

Peace

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by TRexF16

Those wiring diagrams are making my head hurt. I am SO glad there are folks here who can decipher that stuff and help out a Noob like me some day when the time comes for me to wire something this ambitious. I hope it souds awesome when complete and would love to hear a video clip with a demo.

I'm not worthy,
Rex

Thanks!

[Holyoli]

Yep, saw that diagram.
Noise is not the only issue, but also the different way the pickup will be loaded when you roll down the volume. Lot of people find it too muddy, but of course it's a matter of personal preference, and it's easy to try and see what you like the most.

As for the treble bleed, I've done it the same way : try and listen :-)
With the brigde sc (tonerider hot classic with 250 k pot) , the "kinman bleed" is realy nice and natural sounding : it's a 130 K resistor in serie with a 0.0012 µ cap.
For the neck pickup (a fralin trembucker with a s coil -// - serie split mode and a 500 K pot) it didn't worked for me with theses values, specialy in normal HB mode. I tried with 150 K and 680 pico in // (suhr values) and didn't like it.
Finally the best to my ears was a 100K and 0.001µ in //, but it changes the tapper so it's not the best if you do volume swell on the guitar pot. Can't do it with the tele pot placement so it wasn't a problem for me. Maybe I'll try with 150 or 220 K someday, or a .002µ cap (SD values are 100K + 0.002µ in //)
To avoid too much soldering, I took 2 long wires from the pot to a solderless proto breadboard, quick and easy to try different values...

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by Holyoli

As for the treble bleed, I've done it the same way : try and listen :-)
With the brigde sc (tonerider hot classic with 250 k pot) , the "kinman bleed" is realy nice and natural sounding : it's a 130 K resistor in serie with a 0.0012 µ cap.
For the neck pickup (a fralin trembucker with a s coil -// - serie split mode and a 500 K pot) it didn't worked for me with theses values, specialy in normal HB mode. I tried with 150 K and 680 pico in // (suhr values) and didn't like it.
Finally the best to my ears was a 100K and 0.001µ in //, but it changes the tapper so it's not the best if you do volume swell on the guitar pot. Can't do it with the tele pot placement so it wasn't a problem for me. Maybe I'll try with 150 or 220 K someday, or a .002µ cap (SD values are 100K + 0.002µ in //)
To avoid too much soldering, I took 2 long wires from the pot to a solderless proto breadboard, quick and easy to try different values...

Thanks! That's some great info. I feel pretty certain that I'll use a bleed circuit on the HB. I've also rethought the wiring and made it simpler. I did away with the wiring that you and I have been discussing and went with two volumes that will interact like an LP in the moiddle position. They'll blend and either one of the volumes will silence the guitar...easier for volume swells which I do a bit of.

Latest diagram.

[Guitarnut]

I installed the frets and applied the first few coats of Tru-Oil. I love the color that TO gives to maple...and it makes the flame pop!









Mark

[Guitarnut]

I got started on bleaching the top, using household bleach and hydrogen peroxide to neutralize the chlorine.

The starting point.



After a first heavy coat of bleach,,,



...covered with clean rags to keep the bleach from evaporating too quickly.



Results after the first pass.



And, after the second bleaching. I may go one more to see if it will lighten anymore.

[parsaver]

Are you just bleaching the top or are you bleaching the side edge of the flame maple too?

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by parsaver

Are you just bleaching the top or are you bleaching the side edge of the flame maple too?

Just the top. The sides and back will be opaque white with a white burst on the top.

[parsaver]

You've inspired me to do a drop top....about 4 guitars ahead of schedule. I wanted to further practice my skills before I started using wood I would cry about if I damaged. Just to be safe....I bought two pieces, a spalted/flame maple and a 5A flame maple. Going to put them on mahogany body and thought about bleaching the flame but shuddered to think about accidently bleaching the mahogany.

If everything goes well I might have two new guitars. Pretty soon I might even start building my own necks....

[kwerk]

Sorry, I may have missed this earlier, but why are you bleaching?

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by kwerk

Sorry, I may have missed this earlier, but why are you bleaching?

To make this finish possible.

[Guitarnut]

Originally Posted by parsaver

You've inspired me to do a drop top....about 4 guitars ahead of schedule. I wanted to further practice my skills before I started using wood I would cry about if I damaged. Just to be safe....I bought two pieces, a spalted/flame maple and a 5A flame maple. Going to put them on mahogany body and thought about bleaching the flame but shuddered to think about accidently bleaching the mahogany.

If everything goes well I might have two new guitars. Pretty soon I might even start building my own necks....

I've thought about bleaching with a top already laminated to a mahogany back, The best I've come up with is to tape it off with at least 4" wide paper/plastic, and hang it like you would when spraying it. This way, any runs would drip down and away from the sides...should work. As always, practice on scrap until you get the results you're after.

[Guitarnut]

The heat has been a bear lately and the shop has uninhabitable so I have made any progress on finishing. I've been able to spend a few hours in the mornings working on getting all my builds ready for finish. Here's the state of things. The Strat is ready to go and the mahogany and walnut builds are ready for grain filling.







More soon.
Mark

[Guitarnut]

Well, my last post on this build was back in July but I'm back on it now. I have two other Strat builds that I plan to spray this weekend and it just seems right to bring this one along as well.

Here's my plan for the finish. If it goes horribly wrong on the top, I can always go solid white or sand back the top and do another color.

White Flame Strat

Top
Dye with very light black Transtint
Sand back
White shader coats (Dupli-Color clear tinted with white)

Back and sides
Gray primer coats (Evercoat)
Block sand with 320 and remove any tape edge
White coats (Dupli-Color Champion White)
Level sand with 600 and remove any tape edge
Final white coats on edges and burst
Clear coats (Dupli-Color)

Mark

[Philly]

Mark
Don't know if its any help, but I stained the maple top of one of my builds with white stain, then sanded back. Made the maple look lovely and light - then I sprayed a tinted burst over it. Really worked well, and I think it could suit your chosen colour scheme perfectly.
Hope this helps,
Philly

[Mojotron]

Originally Posted by Philly

Mark
Don't know if its any help, but I stained the maple top of one of my builds with white stain, then sanded back. Made the maple look lovely and light - then I sprayed a tinted burst over it. Really worked well, and I think it could suit your chosen colour scheme perfectly.
Hope this helps,
Philly

Loved to see a picture of that - sounds awesome.