Contoured body veneering question

[frankentele]

Hello all,

I've been following the veneering threads here but I have an interesting problem to solve.

I have a lightweight pine Tele body here that I made with deep body contours like a 1950's Strat has. It's very comfortable and sounds great, but the wood is kind of blah looking.

I went to a local wood supplier today and found some really nice matched ash burl veneer sheets. It's in roughly 7" wide by 12" long strips and is about .030 thick each.

The veneer bookmatches nicely, so now I want to laminate my Tele's top with this and I'm thinking an "ambered 1955 Strat" sunburst type finish on this one.

How do I glue these thin strips together into a body sized sheet and still make the veneer conform to the Tele body's contouring at the same time? It's easy to make a veneered top for a guitar that's basically flat, but I don't want to have to make a veneer an inch thick so the waist and arm contours still look like one solid piece of wood.

Thank you,
Ken

[Vizcaster]

Strat bodies used to be veneered (notice some of the ad copy for Am stds since 2008 said 'non-veneered' ash body for the clear finished models), I believe the clear finished MIM ones still are. They do a thin veneer bent to follow the arm contour. best way would be with a vacuum veneer setup, otherwise you could try some sort of shaped caul to clamp it in place.

[Jack Wells]

Those 12 in. long veneer strips aren't long enough to cover a Telecaster body.

Lotsa luck if your body has the contour on the back.

[frankentele]

The nice thing about these veneer strips is that not only are they bookmatched, but they also look believable laid one over the other to make them longer too.

I just wanted to do the front with the veneer. I do like Vizcaster's vacuum idea, but I'm worried about the compound curve at the arm contour. How do you keep thin veneers from cracking or splitting around curves? Do you soak the veneer first before applying it to the body to make it conform or will the vacuum bag keep the veneer from cracking?

Thank you,
ken

[Jack Wells]

The arm contour doesn't have to be a compound curve. If you're only doing the front, that shouldn't be difficult provided you're using true veneer which is about the thickness of a sheet of paper....... maybe construction paper.

[flatfive]

Is it raw wood veneer?

I use a vacuum press but haven't veneered a curved surface,
and haven't heard of moistening veneer just before gluing it.

You may have no problem if you use a vacuum bag. But I'd worry
about the burl veneer cracking while the vacuum is being
established. The crack edges might not come back together
perfectly as they are pressed along the curve.

You could try moistening the veneer and then letting it dry in
the shape you'll be veneering. But again, I've never done it.

Edit: you may find the following page helpful:

http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fi...g-curved-apron

Originally Posted by frankentele

The nice thing about these veneer strips is that not only are they bookmatched, but they also look believable laid one over the other to make them longer too.

I just wanted to do the front with the veneer. I do like Vizcaster's vacuum idea, but I'm worried about the compound curve at the arm contour. How do you keep thin veneers from cracking or splitting around curves? Do you soak the veneer first before applying it to the body to make it conform or will the vacuum bag keep the veneer from cracking?

Thank you,
ken

[frankentele]

Yes, it's raw veneer. I wouldn't have bought it if I knew it would be so much trouble, but the stuff has figure that looks a mile deep even unfinished. If I can get it to work, it would be spectacular.

I'm going to buy a vacuum bag. I already have a pump that should work from my vac table, so I should be OK there.

I have been doing some research, and it seems that it may be possible to do if you soak the wood first to make it pliable. Then, put it in position on the body in the vac bag to dry. This way the body becomes a mold for the veneer before you glue up.

Once the veneer has dried, you can glue it up and rebag it. I'm also reading about a 'veneer softener' chemical that may be useful too. It look like I'm going to have to buy some more veneer to practice on.

ken

[flatfive]

Once you have the bag it should be easy to experiment with
scrap. Do you have, or can you get, extra veneer?

Originally Posted by frankentele

Yes, it's raw veneer. I wouldn't have bought it if I knew it would be so much trouble, but the stuff has figure that looks a mile deep even unfinished. If I can get it to work, it would be spectacular.

I'm going to buy a vacuum bag. I already have a pump that should work from my vac table, so I should be OK there. I'm going to have to do a lot more study before I try this.

ken

[Vizcaster]

Yes there are glycerine preparations (premade and home brewed) to make veneer pliable when gluing up. This is an old link, but seems to have some helpful reading: http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneeri...ng-started.htm

[Nick JD]

You'd be fine vacumming the veneer down on the back of a Strat (front, zero worries) with a straight-grained veneer - I've asked veneers to do as much without any softening agents.

However! A burl, that's different. What you might find is that the act of softening it makes it weak and when you apply the vacuum it might just split all to hell.

That said, the dry vacuuming runs will give you proof of concept without a gooey mess to remove if it doesn't work.

Do a thread!

[telemcCaster]

Ken,

Assuming your veneer is buckled and very brittle, first flaten it with veneer softener. This makes it soft, plyable and easy to work with. In this state you can cut the edges with a veneer saw. The softerner's effect lasts only 24 hours or so don't let it sit indefinately.

Next saw the veneers edges or use an exacto to cut them with a straight edge.

Assemble the veneers into your pattern and make sure each joint is tight. Now connect the pieces by using painters masking tape. Pull the joints tight and tape across the joints from end to end and next run a strip of tape along the joint. Press the tape down with a j roller or improvise. Repeat untill you have your entire layup taped at the joints.

Now flip it over with the tape down and put yellow glue into the joints by creasing the joint so you see the joint and spread a little glue. Do this for all joints. Wipe the excess glue with a damp rag to clean it all up.

Now apply veneer tape (no holes) to each joint, making sure every thing is tight and the tape is stuck.

press this between two flat boards for an hour or two.

Once the seams are glued you can be rest assured that they won't open with a gap while they are being pressed into the contours of the body.

Remove the painters tape which will become the glue side. Put the veneer layup on the body and while pressing the veneer down so it conforms to the contours, mark a pencil line where you want the edge of the veneer to be and that will by your line to cut the veneer. You might leave it a little large and sand it or use a file or something to make the end of the veneer to look right.

Now you are ready to glue veneer to the substrate. The best method for contoured surfaces is to use a vacuum press. Apply glue to the body, not the veneer. Tape the veneer into position in a couple places so it doesn't slide around, use masking tape. Put a sheet of plastic wrap over this, then bleeder cloth (black porch screen) and make sure the bleeder cloth goes over the whole layup and also covers the vac hole. Pull the vacuum until the glue is dry.

Take it out and remove the veneer tape by first wetting it and then scrape it off.

[oigun]

The old fashioned way to clamp curved surfaces is the use of a sandbag. If you use an animal glue you can heat the sand before clamping. The downside of this method is that cannot see what you are doing. With a vacbag its a lot easier.

[flatfive]

Originally Posted by telemcCaster

...
Apply glue to the body, not the veneer. Tape the veneer into position in a couple places so it doesn't slide around, use masking tape. Put a sheet of plastic wrap over this, then bleeder cloth (black porch screen) and make sure the bleeder cloth goes over the whole layup and also covers the vac hole. Pull the vacuum until the glue is dry.
...

Why plastic wrap beneath the bleeder cloth -- to prevent
marks from the bleeder cloth?

[telemcCaster]

Originally Posted by flatfive

Why plastic wrap beneath the bleeder cloth -- to prevent
marks from the bleeder cloth?

No not really...I always wrap the layup in plastic and put the bleeder cloth outside of that. My reasoning is that I don't want to get glue squeezing out and stick to the bag. Just general maintenance type of thing.