Neck builders! Question about rosewood "veneer" neck build

[Dababy]

I've got a friend who's a Fender certified amp tech. He's fixed my amps for me on a couple of occasions for just the price of parts. He's a great guy and he's always talking about a 1963 Seafoam green Strat he used to own, but had to sell when times got tough.

As a surprise for him, I'm planning on building him a replica (NOT WITH FENDER DECAL - it will have something else meaningful on the headstock).

Now, I've built plenty of guitar bodies, but I always buy the necks. I'm considering building the neck for this one - but in order for it to be vintage correct, it needs to be a rosewood veneer cap, like this:

not a rosewood slab.

Is this too big of an undertaking for my first neck? What is a good way to put the radius on the underside of the slab where it glues to the neck?

Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

[Mojotron]

Originally Posted by Dababy

.......


Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

Is this too big of an undertaking for my first neck?
Yes and no: Yes - if it were me, a more average wood worker asking the question - I would advise you to make a number of practice necks out of really cheap wood, then a plain one piece neck first, do all the fretwork and get some experience before messing with rosewood - slab or veneer. No - if you are an ace woodworker and can make lots of other stuff like laminated cabinets... as well as guitar bodies. I did not think my first neck was that difficult to make, but there is a lot of new stuff to learn from making bodies.

What is a good way to put the radius on the underside of the slab where it glues to the neck?
Just take your fretboard sanding block and make the inverse of that block by sanding the curve into a 3" wide, 1" thick, board (or 2.77" wide if you want it to match a Stu Mac block) with some 60gt or 80gt sand paper glued to your normal fretboard sanding block. I always use a jig that keeps the sanding block and the board I'm sanding (or neck) perfectly straight - that jig looks a lot like the truss routing jig - only it's 2.77" wide (the width of Stu Mac's Al sanding block) instead of 6" wide. Then all you need to do is:

1) Sand the fretboard curve onto a neck that is about 7/8"
2) Then sand the inverse into some rosewood that is about .2" thick
3) Then, fit them together and make 2 alignment pegs by using a brad cut to about .1" (.05 into the maple and .05" into the rosewood) and drive the alignment peg into the maple
4) Align and press the rosewood cap onto the alignment pegs
5) Remove the rosewood, plan out all of the clamping you will need to do and stage all of the clamps.
6) Put a really thin, but complete, coat of glue on each side of the neck/fretboard joint, press into the alignment pegs and clamp.
7) Then, when the glue is cured, sand the neck's fretboard down to 1" at the heel using the normal sanding block.
8) Then just use the maple sides of the neck and sand or route the sides until it's all flush.

It seemed very intuitive and pretty straight forward when I did it for the first time - not any more complicated than a slab neck, except that you have to be a little more careful about the alignment, and you have to do the veneer cap after the neck's side profile has been routed. With a slab you can actually do all the gluing much earlier on.

[Dababy]

Doh! (Homer Simpson voice) Why didn't I think of that??!! (The part about using the fretboard radius sanding block to make an inverse sanding plane.)

I agree it sounds kind of daunting for a first neck build. I'm pretty decent with wood, and I'm very technically inclined, but I'm no expert.

Maybe what I should do is try it with throw-away type wood (I will need to do this to ensure the jigs I make are accurate anyways). If it turns out that I made a decent looking neck, then I can try with rosewood and maple.

I'm still kicking this thing around in my head - thinking maybe I want to have it done by next Christmas, so I've got plenty of time.

Thanks for the info!

[Mojotron]

Originally Posted by Dababy

... Why didn't I think of that??!!....

Ha... That's what I thought too when I saw a thread somewhere here on making a veneer neck . I think Preeb has a few notes on doing this a little differently - but that's the way that I do this and it worked great.

I'm a technical guy not a real woodworker. I kind of tend to approach stuff like this like I'm making a watch and I take forever to get stuff done the first time with my lack of extensive woodworking experience: I've just made guitars and some cabinets... But, I think it's pretty approachable for someone to be able to make a neck that is better than what you can buy form the high-end parts guys if someone is modestly careful and attentive to detail.

I love veneer necks, the one I made using maple for the back with a bubinga fretboard is one of my favorites. I'm going to make some more using rosewood. I think I would agree with someone that a slab rosewood board has a little less of a maple sound to it, but veneer necks seem to retain the sound of the fretboard wood while giving some of the more articulate sound of maple. I'll stop there - I could talk about veneer necks all day long , I think, they are really cool and really rewarding to make if you're looking for a bit of a little extra challenge.

[Bolide]

Nice post Mojotron.
Thank you, very complete yet completely understandable, and I agree with Dababy about the method of making the matching sanding block being so elegant as to seem obvious after it is explained.

Ditto d'Oh!

[Mojotron]

Originally Posted by Bolide

Nice post Mojotron.
Thank you, very complete yet completely understandable, and I agree with Dababy about the method of making the matching sanding block being so elegant as to seem obvious after it is explained.

Ditto d'Oh!

Thanks! I wish I could find the TDPRI thread I learned this from - there were some good pictures in there.

[Dababy]

I'll be sure to post some pics whenever I do this - hopefully it's not a total disaster.

Even if it is - I'll keep working at it until I get it. I also want to build a one piece maple neck some day, but I've seen enough threads with info on that so I think I'll have a good source of info for that one.

Thanks again Mojotron! I'll keep searching and see if I can find that thread you were talking about.

[telemcCaster]

Preeb uses a saw blade to cut a radius on the underside of the rosewood. I think it is a 10inch blade and he runs the wood across it, at a 90 degree angl, using a fence of course. He does things historically accurate and I have no arguement with the correctness, but it makes little economic sense to use thick rosewood when a thinner one can be used an bent to conform to the curve. Like I did here. http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home...ml#post2688166

[Dababy]

Originally Posted by telemcCaster

a thinner one can be used an bent to conform to the curve. Like I did here. http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home...ml#post2688166

Very cool! Bookmarked the thread for future reference - I may try and do it both ways (solid vs two ply veneer) - whichever neck turns out better will be used for his strat, and whichever doesn't can always be used on one for me.
Thanks telemcCaster!

[telemcCaster]

I only used 2 ply veneer because I decided to thin the neck to get rid of the fret slots I had cut. If you keep the neck thick you can get by with a 0.10 inch thick veneer of rosewood. Orphan guitar sides work if they are thick enough.

[Dababy]

Originally Posted by telemcCaster

Orphan guitar sides work if they are thick enough.

Okay - I've never heard that one before. What's meant by "orphan" guitar sides?

[telemcCaster]

Acoustic guitar wood comes in sets. Book matched back with matching sides=full price. You might find a side with out a set on the bay or from one of the suppliers. With this you could get 2 fingerboards.

I have orphans because I done broke their brothers (frownie).

Fingerboard rosewood is pretty cheap though in regular thickness so this is just another option.

[Dababy]

Originally Posted by telemcCaster

Acoustic guitar wood comes in sets. Book matched back with matching sides=full price. You might find a side with out a set on the bay or from one of the suppliers. With this you could get 2 fingerboards.

Ahh. That clears it up for me. Thanks!

[telemcCaster]

I clicked on your site...I really dig the tunes.

[lucky strike]

How thick are those *original RW veneers?
Is there some other name for this kind of necks? I think so....

[heinzlorenzo]

Actually, despite how Fender do it now, and all the rumours, veneer boards were just that - a 0.100" veneer bent and glued to the maple neck. It's easy to bend by wetting the top with hot water and sitting the bottom on a heater- then you just have to glue and clamp it quickly. A radiused caul is perfect, but for one offs or compound radius boards, wrapping tightly stretched bicycle inner tubes round the neck works well to clamp the board in place. You really need to leave it clamped up for a couple of days to dry thorougly. Thin lumber is easily available in 1/8" thickness and leaves a little material for truing the board after attaching.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=834

http://www.westpennhardwoods.com/sho...ed_Lumber.html

http://www.westpennhardwoods.com/sho...ed_Lumber.html

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=838

[heinzlorenzo]

[QUOTE=telemcCaster;2918060]
I have orphans because I done broke their brothers (frownie).

QUOTE] That's enough to make you sing the blues!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqwlLLm87xU

[Dababy]

Originally Posted by telemcCaster

I clicked on your site...I really dig the tunes.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by heinzlorenzo

Actually, despite how Fender do it now, and all the rumours, veneer boards were just that - a 0.100" veneer bent and glued to the maple neck. It's easy to bend by wetting the top with hot water and sitting the bottom on a heater- then you just have to glue and clamp it quickly. A radiused caul is perfect, but for one offs or compound radius boards, wrapping tightly stretched bicycle inner tubes round the neck works well to clamp the board in place. You really need to leave it clamped up for a couple of days to dry thorougly. Thin lumber is easily available in 1/8" thickness and leaves a little material for truing the board after attaching.

Thanks for the info and the links! I have a GREAT lumber store with plenty of exotic woods within about 40 minutes drive of my place. This place:
http://www.keimlumber.com/exoticwoods
I'm going to stop there right after Christmas and see what they have.
What I was originally thinking was that I would have to treat a "veneer" neck as if it was a curved slab neck - but after getting all of this info I'm definitely going to try treating it like it actually is - veneer. I'm going to try to bend it to conform to the curved shape of the neck.

[heinzlorenzo]

That place is bound to have some suitable wood!
The only other things I can suggest to help for a 1963 neck is that the truss rod route was 3/16" wide and between 14.5 and 15mm deep at the deepest point, the truss rod was 5/32" and 8-32 thread. Stewmac supply perfect replacement truss rod nuts. The anchor on the other end was larger than earlier ones and 5/32" thick, 3/8" deep and 1/2" wide (earlier ones were 1/8" thick and 3/8" square). Last thing, the fillet over the truss rod was usually cherry!

[Dababy]

Originally Posted by heinzlorenzo

That place is bound to have some suitable wood!
The only other things I can suggest to help for a 1963 neck is that the truss rod route was 3/16" wide and between 14.5 and 15mm deep at the deepest point, the truss rod was 5/32" and 8-32 thread. Stewmac supply perfect replacement truss rod nuts. The anchor on the other end was larger than earlier ones and 5/32" thick, 3/8" deep and 1/2" wide (earlier ones were 1/8" thick and 3/8" square). Last thing, the fillet over the truss rod was usually cherry!

Wow - thanks! You know what? I have some dried wild cherry in my basement for that filler strip!