Veneer/top wood

[stratattack]

Hello, I am building a thinline and looking for a top wood. None of my local shops have anything that could work. Does anyone know of a website where i could by some veneer or top wood or whatever its called. Stew mac has some but its wicked expensive and not a lot to choose from.

[Nick JD]

These guys post photos of the actual sheets. Great for imagining your guitar. I can spends ages looking at all the sheets.

Don't freak out at the prices. Where it says, "lot" it's for a stack of sheets. Scroll to the end where they sell single sheets. If you buy two you can bookmatch becayuse they sell consecutive sheets.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Veneer/

[motor_city_tele]

http://www.wood-veneers.com/veneer_extra.html

I like this place, I called and spoke with a salesperson and he was very helpful with my project. There is a gallery with some impressive finished pieces.

prices are reasonable too.

[stratattack]

thanks man thats exactly what i am looking for. I do have one question however, do u know if they have any thicker veneers? cause it looks like they only sell 1/42" inch veneer which seems way to thin for a thinline tele top..

Originally Posted by Nick JD

These guys post photos of the actual sheets. Great for imagining your guitar. I can spends ages looking at all the sheets.

Don't freak out at the prices. Where it says, "lot" it's for a stack of sheets. Scroll to the end where they sell single sheets. If you buy two you can bookmatch becayuse they sell consecutive sheets.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Veneer/

[motor_city_tele]

The veneer is not intended to replace the expensive 1/4 inch bookmatched maple cap. It is only intended to make a 1/4 inch poplar cap look like an expensive maple cap.

In other words - the structural piece(cap) will remain intact while the cosmetic(veneer) can be anything you want.

Just like one of those Steak-um sandwich slices. look real close at one.
only the very most top later is an actual slice. The rest is some type of
ground processed patty.

[stratattack]

You have no idea how much that clears everything up. Thank you!
so now does anyone know where i can purchase the 1/4 inch bookmatched cap to put underneath the veneer?

Originally Posted by motor_city_tele

The veneer is not intended to replace the expensive 1/4 inch bookmatched maple cap. It is only intended to make a 1/4 inch poplar cap look like an expensive maple cap.

In other words - the structural piece(cap) will remain intact while the cosmetic(veneer) can be anything you want.

Just like one of those Steak-um sandwich slices. look real close at one.
only the very most top later is an actual slice. The rest is some type of
ground processed patty.

[TELE_BLUES]

What is you plan of action?Glue the 1/4" top together then glue it to the body then add the veneer?I bought some real nice bookmatched maple tops off ebay from a seller in canada.Something like that would save the trouble of veneering,of course if you have a certain veneer in mind that's another matter.I have this veneer and someday when i have some time i'll stick it to a body i have.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by stratattack

so now does anyone know where i can purchase the 1/4 inch bookmatched cap to put underneath the veneer?

Not sure you are getting it. Why would you veneer over a bookmatched maple top/cap ?

You would only veneer if you wanted the grain that the veneer has. And you would not need a matched 1/4 top to veneer over, just good wood depending on what you are trying to accomplish... Maple or ash to try to add snap to you pick attack [in theory]


Here is an example of thinline I made with 45 year old pine, with a 30+ year old red birch top. Was not looking for grain for this one. it is a 2 piece top with little but even and conforming 'visual esthetic' to the wood.

And some clear ash I made from a 3/4" board with my table saw, same as the birch was made. More grainy.

[stratattack]

I wanted to add the pretty maple veneer on top of a cheap ash/alder/or poplar top so that i wouldn't have to pay $$$$ for a 1/4 inch piece of flame maple

Originally Posted by robt57

Not sure you are getting it. Why would you veneer over a bookmatched maple top/cap ?

You would only veneer if you wanted the grain that the veneer has. And you would not need a matched 1/4 top to veneer over, just good wood depending on what you are trying to accomplish... Maple or ash to try to add snap to you pick attack [in theory]


Here is an example of thinline I made with 45 year old pine, with a 30+ year old red birch top. Was not looking for grain for this one. it is a 2 piece top with little but even and conforming 'visual esthetic' to the wood.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by stratattack

I wanted to add the pretty maple veneer on top of a cheap ash/alder/or poplar top so that i wouldn't have to pay $$$$ for a 1/4 inch piece of flame maple

It confused me [not actually] when you typed bookmatched top to veneer over. It would not need to be bookmatched if you are painting solid or veneering over it was my point...



Here is a shot of the ash after being split and planed into the 5/16" thick caps. Just for sheets and giggles.

[stratattack]

ohhh yeah sorry i didnt mean bookmatched. that ash is pretty.. i wish i had a way to split it into thin pieces...

Originally Posted by robt57

It confused me [not actually] when you typed bookmatched top to veneer over. It would not need to be bookmatched if you are painting solid or veneering over it was my point...



Here is a shot of the ash after being split and planed into the 5/16" thick caps. Just for sheets and giggles.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by stratattack

i wish i had a way to split it into thin pieces...

Table saw and a planer is how I did the birch and Ash from 3/4" boards.

[Nick JD]

If you add a 1/42" veneer an inexpensive 1/4" top wood for your thinline you really need to add binding to hide the edge - this gives the illusion that it's $$$ worth of quilted maple, not $10. It also makes the maple go much further, and in that sense you can find much higher grades of figure in the veneer industry.

Binding is pretty easy - especially the thinner stuff.

This Quilted Sapele sheet is $31. 8" x 8 foot.

[Colt W. Knight]

When considering the price of a book matched top and veneer. Also realize what tools you need to veneer. Do you have a press, can you make a press, do you have the proper clamps, are you going to use heat lock glue, and etc. Those 1/42" veneers don't just lay flat on the wood. A lot of time their figure will bubble or warp across the grain making them difficult to glue without a sophisticated method of application. They are so thin, if you get a little glue build up or an uneven surface you can't simply sand it flat. You will sand through.

[flatfive]

I'm thinking of making a body by putting veneer
over basswood.

I've seen that some people do this with heat lock glue and an
iron. Colt, do the problems you mention arise with this approach?
Have you tried it yourself?

Nick, how do you apply veneer?

Are the problems also dependent on the type of veneer used?
For example, I've heard that burl veneers are more difficult.

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

When considering the price of a book matched top and veneer. Also realize what tools you need to veneer. Do you have a press, can you make a press, do you have the proper clamps, are you going to use heat lock glue, and etc. Those 1/42" veneers don't just lay flat on the wood. A lot of time their figure will bubble or warp across the grain making them difficult to glue without a sophisticated method of application. They are so thin, if you get a little glue build up or an uneven surface you can't simply sand it flat. You will sand through.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by flatfive

I'm thinking of making a body by putting veneer
over basswood.

I've seen that some people do this with heat lock glue and an
iron. Colt, do the problems you mention arise with this approach?
Have you tried it yourself?

Nick, how do you apply veneer?

Are the problems also dependent on the type of veneer used?
For example, I've heard that burl veneers are more difficult.

Most of the expensive veneers you buy from wood working stores and such are paper backed or sticky backed, and you can just roll them on with a veneer roller. Bassically a rubbing roller.

I just ordered some heat lock glue, so ill let you know after I tried it. it supposed to be real easy. Apply glue to both veneer and substrate. Allow to dry, then iron the veneer on with a cloths iron. level high spots with a roller.

I have been just using a lot of clamps and stiff boards to go across the body. I ussually only do half the body blank and glue the two together afterwards. its almost impossible for me to glue a full size sheet over a guitar body.

I just started building a guitar veneer press today, its going to be pretty substantial, but i think its going to make glueing veneer and 1/4 tops much, much easier.

Burls are really tough, because all those little swirls and figures can bubble and make waves all through the piece, especially in the middle when they get wet with glue.

[motor_city_tele]

I too have researched the art of Veneer and marquetry and have educated myself on the many techniques used. I bought a book about it and read it cover to cover a number of times. There is also many resources available on-line. joewoodworker.com has a ton of stuff about veneer both available as information or and materials for purchase.

I purchased some materials on my own from a number of sources to build a vacuum bag and pump suitable to adhere my marquetry designs to a telecaster body substrate.

good luck with what you decide.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by motor_city_tele

I too have researched the art of Veneer and marquetry and have educated myself on the many techniques used. I bought a book about it and read it cover to cover a number of times. There is also many resources available on-line. joewoodworker.com has a ton of stuff about veneer both available as information or and materials for purchase.

I purchased some materials on my own from a number of sources to build a vacuum bag and pump suitable to adhere my marquetry designs to a telecaster body substrate.

good luck with what you decide.

No doubt, in the long run, sometimes the 1/4" tops are way cheaper. That's why I like to point out things like special glues, jigs, and clamps.

Also, Nick brings uip a great point about the binding as well. Its pretty easy to do, and fairly inexpensive, but its still an added cost.

I really like my stew Mac binding router bit. It is so easy and quick to use, I love it!

[telemcCaster]

I am not sure about the long-term stability of a guitar with a 1/42 inch veneer face. Because of the different crosswise level of shrinking and swelling between the two woods. That problem exists also with a capped top but since the cap is much thicker it will bend when expanding without cracking too easily. But the thin veneer won't be able to resist the expansion of the thicker wood below it and might crack in the high humidity (summer). There are a couple of things that might prevent this:

Properly dried woods glued together at a medium equilibrium moisture content when the air is around 45% RH.
The above plus use of the (mentioned above) paper backed veneer.
Body wood that does not expand much when the humidity rises.

As mentioned above a vacuum bag system is a very easy way to glue veneer to a substrate. It can be used for a lot of other operations also.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by telemcCaster

I am not sure about the long-term stability of a guitar with a 1/42 inch veneer face. Because of the different crosswise level of shrinking and swelling between the two woods. That problem exists also with a capped top but since the cap is much thicker it will bend when expanding without cracking too easily. But the thin veneer won't be able to resist the expansion of the thicker wood below it and might crack in the high humidity (summer). There are a couple of things that might prevent this:

Properly dried woods glued together at a medium equilibrium moisture content when the air is around 45% RH.
The above plus use of the (mentioned above) paper backed veneer.
Body wood that does not expand much when the humidity rises.

As mentioned above a vacuum bag system is a very easy way to glue veneer to a substrate. It can be used for a lot of other operations also.

I have seen a lot of veneered top guitars, but never seen any of the above happen.