Poplar/Metallic Orange build

[flatfive]

Originally Posted by lespauljr

Good luck on your build. I love the studio and it looks like you are really doing a good job on the body, but man that neck is funky. I would definitely replace the nut.

Thanks.

Yeah, the more time I spend on the body the less I like the
idea of putting a strange-looking neck on it. I want to replace
the nut and reshape the truss-rod cover. Problem is that
the finish that was used was applied with the truss-rod cover
on, apparently.

[flatfive]

Routing the 3/4" MDF turned out to be easier than expected.

I screwed the template onto the 3/4" MDF and got out the
router and earplugs.



Materials clamped to the Black & Decker Workmate, with
"Jack Wells routing direction arrows" penciled on the 1/4"
template. Ready to rout!



I excitedly switched on the router and ... nothing happened.
The plug had jiggled out of the outlet. What a letdown.
Maybe it was the right thing, though. I calmed down, and
started routing. Felt nice and easy with only a little MDF
to take off.



I concentrated on keeping the router flat on the template
surface. The only little boo-boo was in the control cavity.
I turned off the router after finishing the cavity, but got
impatient and pulled it out while the bit was still spinning
a little. But it's just a tiny nick that I'll fix with plastic wood.

The routed master template, from the bottom (lying on the
router instructions :-)



Guess the next step is the sand the sides of the master template
to smooth out any rough spots?

By the way, I bought the Workmate 125 for only $15 on clearance
at Lowe's when I went to get the router bits. I was thinking about
getting one of the better models, but I'm a sucker for a deal.
The 125 is kind of flimsy, but seemed plenty sturdy enough for this job.

[flatfive]

I mounted the 3/4" template to my poplar body blank, and
penciled the template outline.

Before sawing to the line I drilled a bunch of holes near
the curves, and sawed from the perimeter of the blank
to the holes.

Then I started jigsawing proper:



I've never jigsawed wood this thick, and the poplar was a
little harder than I expected. Also, I was worried about
the blade bending and curving past the line, but this didn't
really happen.

After sawing, from the side:



And from the top, showing that the cuts aren't too far
from the line:

[ievans]

Looking good.

[flatfive]

I was going to sand some of the material off to get closer
to the line before routing.

Then route the body, taking off only about 1/4" or so on each
pass, and following Jack Wells' instructions on the directions
to route.

Can I carry on doing such passes until I cover the entire
width of the body? It's a 1" pattern bit.

The other question concerns the pickup and control cavities.
I was planning to first drill them out fairly close to the line
with a forstner bit, and then route. How deep do the
cavities get routed, and do I go to this depth with the
forstner bit?

[ievans]

Yes, continue routing using those shallow passes. Once you've got the top layer routed, you can remove the template and use the already-routed sections as the template for your pattern bit. If your router depth bottoms out, flip the body over and use the flush trim bit.

Your Terry Downs Rev. D plans have the cavity depths (e.g. 0.850" for the bridge pu cavity). Hog out the material to the depths on the plans using your forstner bits, then clean up the sides using the router.

[Jack Wells]

I rout a 1 3/4 in. body shape with a 1 in. long bit. It's not necessary to have the entire shaft of the bit in the router collet. However if you don't feel comfortable with that idea, do the flip and change bit approach.

I remove the bulk of the wood from cavities with a Forstner bit but I don't drill to the final depth. The Forstner bit leaves circles at the final drill depth. I usually drill about 1/8 in. short of the final depth then let the router clean up the floor of the cavity.

[flatfive]

Thanks for the help with my body routing questions!

One further question. I found that the body isn't exactly
flat. The top is flat, but the bottom is slightly concave
along the width. Placing a straightedge along the width
shows about a 1 mm (no more) gap in the center.

I tried to sort this out before jigsawing the body but
I couldn't really get anywhere with an orbital sander
or a scraper.

Should I worry about this amount of concavity? If
so, how to fix it? A belt sander? I'm trying to not
buy power tools unless they'll be widely useful.

[flatfive]

Here's a pic showing the problem. The photo somehow makes it
look a little worse than in person.

Originally Posted by flatfive

The top is flat, but the bottom is slightly concave
along the width. Placing a straightedge along the width
shows about a 1 mm (no more) gap in the center.

[4string]

Hi Glenn. You are going to want the top/bottom flat, if for no other reason than when it comes time to wet sand the finish. Cann't use a flat sanding block on a non-flat surface!

Without spending $$$ on a planer, we go to DIY "jury-rig" Here's a little trick you can try, and I just happen to know that you possess a 2" x 20" flat bar, which should be just long enough to pull this off....

What you want to do is create a sanding sled set-up for your body's gauge. Find the thinnest point. Figure your sled rails need to be slightly taller than that to allow for final sanding. Lets say your finished thickness is 1 5/8".

In pic #1, I show a pine 1 x 2 (3/4" x 1 1/2") and a pc of 1/8" flatbar.

Pic #2 shows them as being 1 5/8" overall. If you add 2 or 3 (or so) layers of masking tape, there is your final sanding tolerance.

Run down to Home-pot and grab a 1/8" x 3/4" (or so) by 3+ ft steel flatbar, or even an angle bar. This will be your sled rail caps. You need something that will not sand nearly as quickly as wood does, and steel fills the bill and is readily available.......

In the 3rd pic, I have set-up a thickness sanding sled (using what I have on hand or course, but you get the). Nice flat pc of plywood/MDF etc for a base, with sled rails @ your desired guage.

Place the body between the rails and bring them in tight to the body. Clamp the rails to the base, giving yourself plenty of room to work on the body.

Now, put some nice, COURSE sandpaper on your beam, like 24 or 36 grit. Standard 9 x 11 sheet sandpaper will do fine; cut a couple 2" wide strips and make a diagonal splice (like you see on a belt sander/drum sander).

Sand. Try to take it down evenly. When the sanding bar hits the steel sled rail caps, the sanding marks will tell you when to stop (just like a fret level!)

Sanding cross-grain will tear-up the top of the wood somewhat, that is why you need the extra thickness; for final sanding. This proceedure wil getcha both flat AND gauged, and you can then clean it up w/ a random-orbital.

You will be amazed how well this works.........


Marty............

[flatfive]

Marty, thanks so much for explaining in detail how I could
flatten the body.

It turned out that I bought a belt sander before I saw your note.
I googled around and saw that Sears had a $40 belt sander that
was supposed to be decent, so I bought it. It took only a couple
of minutes with 80 grit on the bandsaw to level out the back
sufficiently, and then I used the orbital sander to get rid of
the scratches left from the belt sander.

But I'll definitely keep your jig idea in mind, and not just for
bodies.

Thanks again.

[flatfive]

I can remember well, as a first grader living in Woodland Hills, CA,
the smell from my wood-burning kit.

I recognized that smell soon after starting to rout the poplar
this afternoon. I'd probably routed three inches, things were
going smooth, and I thought: what's the big deal with making
a guitar body?



Then the wood-burning kit smell. Rather than stop immediately,
I figured I'd try to slow down, and take other steps to avoid
burning the wood, but it kept happening again and again.



After a couple of minutes I should've stopped, but I finished
the first pass on almost half the body before realizing I was
just screwing up.



The good news: no chips

But, since I was working in a semi-frustrated mode, I did
manage to ding the side of the body and the template lightly.

Maybe my mistakes were:

1. Using a less-than-new bit? This is nearly-new bit I'd used only to rout the
   3/4" MDF, and I cleaned it off carefully before starting on the poplar.
2. Using a low-quality bit? I understood the Bosch bit is of decent quality.
3. Routing too fast? Seemed I was getting burning even if going very slowly.
4. Routing too much material? I had the bearing as high on the 3/4" template as I could, but maybe I should have sanded closer to the line before routing. Still, I got burns even if only routing off about 1/16" of material.

The router bit didn't look good when I stopped, and practically the
entire router felt pretty warm. Before stopping it seemed like the
router didn't feel as good as it had -- did I manage to damage it?

[4string]

Your bit is dull.

It's deffinately worth investing in a carbide bit. Also, a larger diameter bit will outlast/stay sharp longer. None of the radiuses are small enough to require a 1/2" bit. But you will need that for your pup routes etc.


I route Corian all the time. Carbide required; the bits last a long time.

Marty.......

[flatfive]

Originally Posted by 4string

Your bit is dull.

It's deffinately worth investing in a carbide bit. Also, a larger diameter bit will outlast/stay sharp longer. None of the radiuses are small enough to require a 1/2" bit. But you will need that for your pup routes etc.


I route Corian all the time. Carbide required; the bits last a long time.

Marty.......

Hi Marty. The Bosch bit I'm using (85680M) is a carbide bit, and before
using it to route the poplar blank I used it only to route the
3/4" MDF template.

http://www.amazon.com/85680M-Diamete.../dp/B000CNIL2E

[4string]

MDF, as well as about every other type of re-consituted wood product, is full of crap-that's-not-wood. Whatever they swept-up at the sawmill. Kinda like how the FDA allows a small % of rat droppings, dirt etc in catsup!

You must have smoked your bit on the MDF: there should not be that kind of heat happening, and dull generates all kinds of heat.

Without knowing why not as pertains to guitar routing since I've never done it, is there any reason why you cann't use a 3/4" pattern bit? In my experience, larger bits cut faster, more freely, run cooler........ with the exception of concave-shaped bits such as an ogee, and large convex bits such as a full bullnose. But that's an entirely different animal.........

You can get router bits re-sharpened. There shouldn't be any controversy about it's being dull.

[flatfive]

Thanks Marty. After I clean up the damage I guess I'll sand more
off the blank before routing, and then I'll use the second, new bit.

Where does one go to sharpen a router bit?

Originally Posted by 4string

MDF, as well as about every other type of re-consituted wood product, is full of crap-that's-not-wood. Whatever they swept-up at the sawmill. Kinda like how the FDA allows a small % of rat droppings, dirt etc in catsup!

You must have smoked your bit on the MDF: there should not be that kind of heat happening, and dull generates all kinds of heat.

Without knowing why not as pertains to guitar routing since I've never done it, is there any reason why you cann't use a 3/4" pattern bit? In my experience, larger bits cut faster, more freely, run cooler........ with the exception of concave-shaped bits such as an ogee, and large convex bits such as a full bullnose. But that's an entirely different animal.........

You can get router bits re-sharpened. There shouldn't be any controversy about it's being dull.

[4string]

Check the Yellow Pages for "Saws- Sharpening". The usual price is about 25% of new, but it works quite well. The guy who does ours gets them better than the factory! As long as there aren't any chips in the blades. Some shops can replace chipped blades, but then it becomes not worth it, so replace.

You can sand the burns off, but it looks like the cut isn't very smooth: typical of a dull blade. Who needs the headache?

I spend a lot of time on making sink cut-out templates really smooth. The smoother, the better. Saves lots of time in the final sanding. I use 5/8" 10-ply cabinet-grade Beech skined for my templates. They last a long time, as in maybe 100 uses.....

[4string]

One more thing Glenn. It doesn't look to me like you are trying to cut too much off. Think about what a plunge bit has to cut. Your cutting open edge, so chip load-up shouldn't be a problem. Cutting a consistant thickness of material off would make the cutting smoother, but I'm not seeing where you should be having any problem there either. It's all just the dull bit.

Sand your template until it's really smooth when you run your fingers over it. Start again w/ your fresh bit. Cut about an inch or two and back-off. Inch or two and back-off (over and over). When you get a section done (say 1/4 of the body), do a smooth pass.

This is how we route Corian. I'll garranty you I've personally routed more lineal feet than anyone on this site could in a lifetime routing guitars only by at least 10 times. And that would be in the last 8 years that we have offered Corian, and we really don't do that much Corian; probably average 5-6 kitchens/month. It was more popular a few years ago. There's only 3 guys in our shop who do Corian, so I get elected a lot. The stuff is a cakewalk compared to stone. You could whack a huge chunk off a counter w/ a hammer, and I could fix it to where you couldn't even see where the damage was. The solid color (no spots) stuff I could build-up glue only and route/sand it back to where you couldn't find the repair! Cakewalk......



Backing-off allows the bit to cool down...

[ievans]

It's really unusual for a new carbide bit to get dull so quickly, even on MDF. Usually you'll see burns when you linger too long in once place, but you're getting burns all the way around.

I'd clean off the bit with mineral spirits and make sure it isn't cooked (discoloration of the carbide).

It's possible that in taking it slow, you actually took it too slow, allowing too much heat to build up. Try taking a shallow depth pass, but moving the router steadily at a medium speed.

One nice thing about using a router table is that you can see the wood as you're working on it. This allows you to avoid burns, and shave off the edges in multiple passes before hitting the template.

[Jack Wells]

I can't believe a new router bit would be dulled just by routing an MDF template. I've made several templates and routed several bodies with the same router bit. I think the burn marks are due to going too slowly around the body.

I think you need to clean the bit with alcohol, naptha, acetone or whatever will take off that brown residue. Then make shallow passes at a steady moderate pace.

If you think you may be making more than a single guitar, a router table is the way to go.