Fender Baritine special neck on Tele body?

[nrand]

Does anyone know if the Jaguar Baritone Special necks will fit onto a standard Telecaster body without modifications? My avatar is still headless.

[Jack Wells]

If the Jaguar Baritone Special has 22 frets it would work on a Telecaster body*. However, I'm a bit confused after looking at the Fender website. The specs for the Jaguar Baritone say it has 22 frets but the picture shows 21.

The discontinued Telecaster Subsonic had a 27 in scale and 22 frets.

......

* I based this on the following:

Lets assume that the distance from nut to heel of neck on a 21 fret neck is the same as from nut to a hypothetical 22nd fret............. it would be close. Accordingly, assume the distance from nut to heel on a 22 fret neck is the same as from nut to a hypothetical 23rd fret.

Using the StewMac fret calculater, the distance from nut to 22 fret on a 25.5 in. scale is 18.344 in.

25.5 - 18.344 = 7.156 in. (Distance from neck pocket to saddle)

Similarily, the distance from nut to 23rd fret on a 27 in. scale is 19.849 in.

27 - 19.849 = 7.151 in. (Distance from neck pocket to saddle)

These two calculations only differ by 0.005 in.

With the wide range of intonation adjustment found with a Telecaster bridge, fitting a 22 fret 27 in. scale neck on a standard Telecaster body shouldn't pose any problems.

[nrand]

Originally Posted by jwells393

If the Jaguar Baritone Special has 22 frets it would work on a Telecaster body*. However, I'm a bit confused after looking at the Fender website. The specs for the Jaguar Baritone say it has 22 frets but the picture shows 21.

Thanks,
Your calculations leave me baffled, and equally impressed.
My sources are precisely as inconsistent as yours, so I am assuming the photo is correct and the number is 21 frets with a 27" scale. Does this make much of a difference? Also, one of my original concerns was the butt end where it fits into the Tele body - I can get one of the necks but I don't want to make a big mistake given the neck socket on my 'avatar' body was pre-routed.

[Jack Wells]

Well................. ask your neck source how many frets the neck has. If it has 21, this might require moving the bridge rearward away from the neck pocket.

Once again using the StewMac fret calculator we get the distance to 22nd fret (end of neck on 21 fret neck) on a 27 in. scale to be 19.423

27 - 19.423 = 7.577 in. (Distance from neck pocket to saddle)

This is 0.426 further back from the neck pocket than with a 22 fret neck.

The Fender Subsonic neck mentioned above was designed to replace the standard 25.5 in. scale neck of a typical Telecaster. The Jaguar Baritone neck was designed to replace a 24 in. scale neck found on the Jaguar. I therefore think the Jaguar Baritone neck and Subsonic neck have different nut to heel distances.

[nrand]

Originally Posted by jwells393

Well................. ask your neck source how many frets the neck has. If it has 21, this might require moving the bridge rearward away from the neck pocket.

I trust my counting from the photo of the neck and it is defintely 21 - the supplier it seems also trusted the info from Fender without actually counting. As far as the bridge adjustment goes, and given I am planning a bigsby for this in any case, please tell me if the rest of my thinking is correct.

If the bridge line is 13 1/2" from the 12 fret [that is 1/2 of the 27" scale distance] basically everything else would align as needed?

[nrand]

Originally Posted by nrand

I trust my counting from the photo of the neck and it is defintely 21 - the supplier it seems also trusted the info from Fender without actually counting. As far as the bridge adjustment goes, and given I am planning a bigsby for this in any case, please tell me if the rest of my thinking is correct.

If the bridge line is 13 1/2" from the 12 fret [that is 1/2 of the 27" scale distance] basically everything else would align as needed?

I checked the images of the two HH jags on line and placed them side by side. My hunch is correct I believe - the HH Baritone Bridge and Pickup layout is much more stretched from the neck socket than is the normal Jaguar HH - a much more similar pattern to the usual Telecaster alignment. Allowing for different fret spacing on the 27 inch scale I suspect I will not have to move things too much from normal on my tele body. If any thing the bridge will e slightly further away, thus I will probably go for a Jaguar tremolo rather than a Bigsby - shorter profile. In any case the neck is on the way. I will measure and report back.

[Jack Wells]

Once the neck arrives, it will be a simple matter to stick the neck in the pocket, lay a bridge in place and see if 27 in. from the nut is within the adjustment range of the saddles. If not, you may have to do some patching and re-routing of the pickup cavity and possibly filling and re-drilling of the string through holes.

[nrand]

Originally Posted by jwells393

Once the neck arrives, it will be a simple matter to stick the neck in the pocket, lay a bridge in place and see if 27 in. from the nut is within the adjustment range of the saddles. If not, you may have to do some patching and re-routing of the pickup cavity and possibly filling and re-drilling of the string through holes.

The body, although precut, has no hardware on it yet. I am planning to use a Mustang bridge through to the Jag Tremolo unit, thus giving me more flexibility, and making the string holes redundant. I am planning a larger than usual scratch plate which will accommodate both pickup cavities. The design is a bit rough still, waiting on final placement of the bridge and a set of french curves but you will get the basic idea.

I will put the ferules on the back anyway, purely for cosmetic purposes. I can place the Mustang bridge anywhere with a bit of patching of string holes etc. In the worst case scenario this might leave the bridge a little further away from the bridge pup than is usual. Are there any guidelines on the maximum distance between the bridge and the bridge pup? Once I have all the measurements I may need to adjust this cavity as you suggest. The pickups are the Bill Lawrence variety.

[nrand]

Originally Posted by nrand

Are there any guidelines on the maximum distance between the bridge and the bridge pup? .

DIY Research! I found this article that may or may not be known which I found helpful. I am not that strong in the physics department but I did conclude that if the bridge pickup is shifted slightly away from the bridge the low end response will increase. That could be a good thing in this case.

http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponse/index.html

It will be interesting to measure the placement of my Keystones relative to the scale length and see if that sheds any light on what I might hear. I have a Fender copper pated steel 'twang' plate coming for the bridge unit - all Fender parts except for the body wood and the Keystones. I will post the parts list a little later.

[nrand]

The neck arrived just before Christmas and the pocket will need some fine tuning, I am not sure exactly how much. The width seems pretty near perfect as it is just a hair too wide for the pocket, at 55 and a nit mm, as it came from the body supplier - a little sanding on the sides of the pocket will make it snug as. The heel is a bit more rounded than the pocket and will need to be cut out slightly. My biggest question has to do with the thickness of the neck at the heel - I do not have a standard Tele at home for comparison - although the Baritone special neck is clearly thicker than my G&L Asat Thinline. At the thickest point of the fretboard at the heel I measure 24.24mm or there-about. How does this compare with standard Tele measurements? Any suggestions on how to approach the mods using hand tools?

I am going back to a Mustang bridge w/o the standard Tele bridge plate and then to a 62 RI Jag tremolo unit.

[nrand]

Originally Posted by nrand

My biggest question has to do with the thickness of the neck at the heel - I do not have a standard Tele at home for comparison - although the Baritone special neck is clearly thicker than my G&L Asat Thinline.

I found an earlier thread covering the differences between Fender and G&L necks:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...k-shaping.html
It seems I should not worry about the thickness too much in this case - the trick will be the rounded end. I have some good chisels for the basic cut and am thinking maybe an abrasive tip on my cordless drill for the fine tuning - gently - gently.

[nrand]

I decided to work with the neck and the cavity to get the fit, working on the sides first it took only an hour of gentle sanding in front of the television to get the sides schmick. I failed to remember the two sides of the cavity are not of equal length - OOPS - but hopefully this should touch up with some finishing touches later on.

[nrand]

During this process I noticed that the positive shape of the neck was easier to work with than the cavity in the body, and that the maple was much easier to fine tune so I decided to work on the end of the neck to have it fit the cavity - a reversal of my original plan. Once I got to the point where the fit was nearly perfect I also discovered that the holes lined up. There is a slight gap under the overhang of the neck end, just enough to slip the pickguard underneath later - this hopefully will be a nice look. This took about three hours with a hand chisel and 180 sandpaper. I used a stainless mitre handle as a sanding block to keep every thing nice and flat.

Hanging next to my G&L it is noticeably longer over all if only a little. The bridge clearly will have to move back a fair bit from stock to get the 27" - I'll check it tomorrow. Hopefully there will still be room for the Jaguar tremolo .... please be gentle with your comments about my lack of planning - this is my first guitar 'build' and the plan exists in my head only at this stage!

[nrand]

Here are a couple of pix of the basic guitar next to some others for comparison - I am beginning to think given my original choice for strings as 13-62's I might need to consider tuning toA rather than B. I don't know why I think this - just a hunch.

[nrand]

The bridge will go to the string ferule line - some filling required here but overall the difference is about 3/8" - this I suppose is the difference between 22 and 21 frets - I wonder why they went with 21 frets yet all the brochures say 22?

[nrand]

I'm still waiting on a couple of parts to arrive so I decided to spend some time on the basic design/layout. I want to ensure the end result is recognizable as a Fender but also different, working in with the Jag components as well. Planned is a black finish with tortoise shell guard - I think this will suit the black headstock with the gold lettering.
What do people think?

I am not sure if I want to attempt binding as this will be my first attempt at finishing. I also need some advice on what to use to cut the guard material.

[nrand]

I went over the basic design with some french curves and with the help of my son Oliver did some colouring to get an idea of the colour scheme. I don't have access to a CAD so if anyone who has one is feeling like playing around with this and posting that would be appreciated. Even with the headstock I am not entirely convinced black for the body is the right colour. The pickguard blank sheet is shown.

I don't have nor can afford the appropriate power tools so I'll take this to my friendly luthier tomorrow for some help with drilling and routing. I have a fair bit invested in parts so I want to make sure it is right!

[nrand]

After sitting with the design for a day or so I decided the top curve was a bit too severe so I have toned it down a bit - Interesting that it is starting to look a bit like a Bass VI, which perhaps is not a bad thing.
http://vintageguitars.org.uk/graphics/bassVI.jpg
One interesting thing about this process is that it is giving me insights into Fender's design thinking.

[nrand]

Given the money already invested in parts and my lack of tools and spraying space I decided to take the whole project down to Steve Salvi, a local luthier and all around good guy. He has made a couple of suggestions to fine tune the design but basically it will be as drawn. I could probably do an ok job, as someone suggested but with these parts I think it will now be excellent:

Fender Baritone Special neck 27" scale
Tele style body from Ben McCall's workshop in Texas - 5'10" Swamp Ash.
Fender Jaguar RI Tremolo and arm
Fender Mustang Bridge, Bridge Cover, and Thimbles
Texas Turbo Switch and Control Plate assembly: altered
w/ Fender 4 way switch &
Genuine Fender dome knobs
Bill Lawrence Keystones
Fender Copper plated steel base plate for bridge pickup
Tortoise Shell Pickguard material from an ebay seller in Belgium
Fender 'F' Neckplate
Fender Robert Cray vintage style tuners
Fender Strap Buttons
D'Addario light Baritone Strings
The body will be gloss black to match the headstock.
I'll be dropping in with the camera every few days so I can post progress.

[nrand]

I have mixed news to report - Steve took one look at the body and said it was not premium timber - very time consuming and costly to make it paint ready, especially for gloss black - so this body came home with me and he is getting an already sanded and primed blank in Alder - which will also be much lighter. This will save me money over all. Still I have nearly enough parts lying around to use the Swamp ash body on something a bit less ambitious that I can do myself - I only need a neck, Pups, sandpaper and a clear coat. To compensate for my sense of loss I went out and bought a 1976 Super Twin for the Baritone which should suffice for some reasonable wailing