My 12-string mutt...

[RomanS]

I've had a bit of GAS for a 12-string for a while (never owned one before...), when I found a guy selling really inexpensive 12-string necks on German Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.at/12-Saiter-Neck-Hals-21-Buende-Ahorn_W0QQitemZ400065247587QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAllg emeines_Musikinstrumente_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item5d2 5bf3963
I figured since they cost so little (mine was even cheaper than for what they are listed at the moment), I could risk it.
Still have a USACG Tele Thinline body here, from a build that did not work out (because a Bigsby B16 doesn't fit on it); got some threaded saddles from a forum member (thanks to Bill in Japan!), got some hardware, still have plenty of different pickups in my parts box...
Finished that neck with tru-oil, except for the face of the headstock, where I used Plasti-Kote poly.

Found out some not so nice things:
I knew that the neck was wider at the heel than regular Fender spec (that was mentioned in the Ebay ad) - no problem, just sand down the sides of the heel; I have a Mighty Mite Tele neck here to use as a template for the heel.
Heel is rounded, like for a Strat - should not be a big problem, either...
But: the neck mounting holes have already been drilled, but in the wrong location for a Fender spec'd body; thought about dowelling up the holes, but the new holes would have had to be right at the edges of the old ones, and even with dowels in there that seemed a bit risky; also, re-drilling would have placed the neck closer to the bridge, which would probably have caused problems for setting the intonation, since the saddles would have had to be set really close to the back of the Tele bridge. So I went for plan B, using the existing holes on the neck - but that left a 5mm gap behind the heel of the neck - not pretty! Maybe I'll fill that gap with wood putty or something...

Next shock: had the heel sanded down to the width of the Mighty Mite - and it was still too wide for the USACG body - is that Mighty Mite wider than Fender specs, too? I will have to check that with my Warmoth necks the next time I change strings...

Well, I remembered that I had a Tele body around with a slightly wider neck pocket - this Thinline:


- that's an old pic, though - this body has been victim to neck swapping: I needed the Warmoth neck shown in the pic for another build; put the neck from my Danelectro 56 Pro on that body, when I put a baritone neck on my Dano; haven't been playing that one a lot (a 6-string without a Bigsby just doesn't fit my playing style...).
Well, I remembered that the neck pocket on that one was slightly too wide, and I had placed some veneer shims on the sides of the neck pocket - unmounted the Dano neck,mounted the 12-string - perfect (except for the 5mm gap behind the heel, of course...)

Put the threaded saddles on that cut-down Wilkinson double-loader bridge, and spent the rest of the afternoon stringing it up and adjusting action & intonation...

[RomanS]

...and this is the result:


(sorry, it is too late/dark here to take good pics without flash, but you'll get the idea...)

For straight saddles that have four different gauges of string on them, the intonation is actually not bad; sure, it is not perfect, but I was able to set it for a useable compromise, and most imperfections will get lost in the chorus-like warble of the 12 strings, anyway...

What does it sound like?
Nothing like a jangly, chimey Rickenbacker; this guitar is a monster; it sounds HUGE; the neck pickup by itself (a Vintage Vibe HCC) makes the guitar sound like a Hammond B3 (esp. with a bit of amp tremolo - for that Leslie rotary feel); a very overpowering sound; like an ocean steamer siren, a truck horn, a steam locomotive passing by, something in that line...
The other two positions sound a bit lighter, brighter, esp. the bridge pickup (a HB-Sized P90) can even do a little chime; but Tom Petty/Byrds jangle? No way...

Well, I'm not sure whether I like this. OK, it is a very impressive sound when you play that guitar by yourself, strum some open chords on the neck pickup setting, and it will blow you over (and I have a 15" speaker in my amp, too...), play some arpeggios or double-stops and you could join an 80s cover band without buying a chorus pedal.
But I don't think it would work very well in a band setting with another guitar player - he would simply get lost in that tidal wave of sound from this guitar; I'll have to try with the band, but I guess I'll be looking for some brighter, janglier, thinner pickups (I have an old set of GFS Brooklyns here, HB-sized Strat-ish low output single coils that might work).

I've also got a newbie question for more experienced 12-string players: can/do some of you switch the G octave string for a regular ones (so that the G is doubled, just like the B and high E are)? I really like the chorus-y sounds from the two high strings, but that octave G gets a bit plinky when played higher up the neck - with a regular G I could play nice chorus-y triads on the three high strings, that might even give me a bit of mandolin sound higher up the neck...

[Nash]

How's the intonation with the 12 strings? I'd think that there would be a big sacrifice in intonation with, for instance, a high E and a low E on the same saddle.

[RomanS]

I thought so, too - but it's really not that big of a problem...
I set the saddles to a compromise between the strings (you know, like you would for the string pairs on a 3-saddle Tele bridge), and while on a tuner it shows that they move apart for a few cents when moving up the neck, it doesn't really sound out of tune; with all that chorus-like swirliness of the 12-string, that just adds a bit of dimension/modulation/fullness (just like the musette-tuned reeds on an accordion, which are also tuned differently for a few cents, to give a fuller "tremolo" sound).

[Nash]

Originally Posted by RomanS

I thought so, too - but it's really not that big of a problem...
I set the saddles to a compromise between the strings (you know, like you would for the string pairs on a 3-saddle Tele bridge), and while on a tuner it shows that they move apart for a few cents when moving up the neck, it doesn't really sound out of tune; with all that chorus-like swirliness of the 12-string, that just adds a bit of dimension/modulation/fullness (just like the musette-tuned reeds on an accordion, which are also tuned differently for a few cents, to give a fuller "tremolo" sound).

Good to know, I eventually plan a 12 string Tele build(not in anything close to the near future) and I had always pondered this method. I'm glad it worked out for you and it looks like a great guitar.

[boris bubbanov]

Very cool! :^)

[Joefaity]

sweet tele, bet it sounds pretty awesome... hint hint.

[Dr.Ow!]

Thanks for sharing your details in the problem solving and solutions. It must be fun to finally have the 12 as a expansion of your musicianship. PersonallyI haven't played much 12 only once as I recall on a nice Guild and fun it was, and I've wanted an elec ever since.
You have your octave courses on the standard layout. I wonder if the Ric has any advantges or disadvantage with them reversed. What you get used to I guess.

To me a definite plus on your 12 is a peghead that can be viewed with pleasure in a real instrument style...that Fender Moose schnoz thing is a sight only a mom can love. Man that thing is Ug.

[RomanS]

Some more pics:

headstock:


the gap behind the neck heel:

[winny pooh]

I looks great! I recommend using unison G's, it sounds and feels way more natural than some weird high string in the middle of the fingerboard. You may even consider getting a gotoh 12-string bridge with separately adjustable intonation saddles nbut I had to slightly widen the string through holes under the bridge on my body for the strings to go through properly. You may be enjoying the warble now but man the tuning issues start to grate on you later plus the gotoh can adjust the string height which is great as the octave strings generally will sit too low next to the bass strings. Fun project, and try some soukous/afro sounds, twelves were made for that style.

[FirstBassman]

Very handsome guitar. Great job. Congrats!

Welcome to the wonderful world of 12-string - you'll never look back.

Originally Posted by Nash

I'd think that there would be a big sacrifice in intonation with, for instance, a high E and a low E on the same saddle.

Rickenbacker CEO John Hall says that one of the aspects that helps create the "RIC sound" is the slightly off intonation caused by the string-pairs sharing the same saddle.

[pilotfish]

Nice job! I have one of those necks, too, so it's good to hear your experience with one.

I'm most of the way through a thinline-tele 12-string project that I'm probably going to undo and redo, since I boofed up the finish. But I have another body for this neck, and with luck it'll come out better.

Thanks for posting this! Sounds samples would be great (cough, cough, ahem)... :-)

[Dr.Ow!]

I spent some time last year at the Ric forum and found some very good reads on intonation and string set variables for the 12's. Two camps-6 saddle Ric and the 12-ers. To me the Tele wants the eccentricity of the 3 or 6 saddle, the strat wants the purity 12. I started a Ric-ish thing last year. Your posting this may get me moving again on that one. Need LMI glue though for the FB and neck join-out

Thanks Roman for posting pics for us dreamers out here. I'm a newb here and appreciate the longtime devotees shared knowledge and infos.

[Tree]

Sound clip?

Thats a beauty btw, I might just try one of those necks...

[Gascat]

Hey Roman, can you tell me what the nut width is and your string spacing on the nut if it's not too much trouble?


cheers...Wayne

[RomanS]

Originally Posted by Gascat

Hey Roman, can you tell me what the nut width is and your string spacing on the nut if it's not too much trouble?

Is metric OK?
nut width: 48mm
string spacing (between the outermost strings): 40mm

...and for those who are interested: width of the heel: 58mm (Fender spec is just below 56mm, IIRC)

[tonyw]

Very nice looking guitar!!
My next project after i finish my Baritone strat is a 12 string tele.

cheers

[RomanS]

I did try that 12.string with the band in the meantime, and as expected, with those fat sounding pickups it totally dominates the mix, and muddies everything up; I'll have to see whether the Janglebox-clone I'm about to build will help with that, if it doesn't I'll probably do another neck swap, and put that 12-string neck and bridge on that USACG body after all (which means more sanding down of the neck heel...) - maybe with vintage-style Tele-PUs it will be a bit leaner and janglier?