Newbie's second build - a thinline

[scubadoo]

Well, it was my birthday on Thursday so i thought I'd start a new build whilst my first is curing in the conservatory.

I had an ash body blank that I'd glued up at the same time as the first build and i'd just bought some lovely flame maple from http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Prime-Timbers

Lovely wood and a really nice guy. He has some great maple burrs at the moment.

Now the ash had a real nice grain on the one side



but not so lovely on the other



so i thought a thinline would be perfect. I've always like the look of them but never played one so it's bit of a leap of faith.

I guess I was inspired by Jack's build thread http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...ne-%2A%2A.html

First things first it was time for a hearty birthday breakfast.



The body blank i had was 1 3/4" thick and the maple cap was 1/4" so i needed to plane the ash down to 1 1/2".

I wasn't sure if i would be able to do it with the tools i had available; no planer/thicknesser, but I borrowed this from a neighbour



I was worried that i wouldn't be able to get it flat enough for the cap but BAW4742 suggested that I sand to 1 5/8", route the body and then make up a sanding stick to sand across the edges and the centre block. That was a great idea.

[scubadoo]

I put some tape on a ruler as a guide



and began planing. That really is quite an unpleasant and tricky job. I kept checking the depth round the edges but wasn't really able to check the middle thickness. Every so often i would put a straight edge across the blank and sight along it to see if i could see any light between the straight edge and the ash which would indicate that some areas were too low.

Once i was happy i screwed my new template from Terry Down's Rev D drawing onto the blank and traced round the edge



I cut the blank out with my old green bosch jigsaw; i really want a bandsaw!



I thought that i could start the lower horn off with a forstner bit. I put the ash on a piece of mdf to protect the bottom when the bit broke through but all did not go to plan, I heard an unpleasant noise, flipped the body over and saw that the bit had ripped a smalll chunk out.



Well, i hoped that it would sand out and also remembered that i was planning binding so it should be ok.

[scubadoo]

With the body cut



i was ready to route, I screwed the template back on and fitted my small template bit



I did the first pass without too many problems, i really enjoy this part. Kind of scary but really satisying.

Here's the body after the first pass



I then swapped to the longer template bit and set it to do another 1/4" or so.

[scubadoo]

Then i raised the bit and cut some more. I couldn't quite do the whole depth so removed the template and used the previously cut bit as a guide. There are a few rough bits but a bit of elbow grease with the abrasive should sort that out.



Next thing was to do the chambers. I traced my template outline onto a piece of 3/4" MDF. I drew a line 1/2" inside the outside edge and a line 2" either side of the centre line to give me my chambers.

I also put a chamber behind the bridge making sure I left a thicker bit where the strap button would screw in behind the bridge. Just realised that i should have done that on the upper horn. Just make sure you've marked on the string holes, i nearly didn't and was going to cut out the wood that they would go through.

I drilled a hole through the template at either end of the centre line so that i could sight the centre line on the body in order to get things lined up ok. I then cut out the template, and traced it onto the body. I didn't worry too much about tidying up this template as most of the chambers will be hidden.

Time to make some dust! Using my biggest forstner bit, i hogged out (that's a great expression that i think I picked up from you guys in the US) as much of the cavities as i could. I'd measured the thickness of the body, subtracted 1/4" and set the drill to cut another 1/4" less than that so that I could tidy up with the router.



That makes a lot of sawdust



no really, a hell of a lot...how do you guys keep your shops dust free?



edit: i now realise i should have left thicker walls at the front strap button and the jack socket. Thanks Jack and Fatman for the advice

[scubadoo]

So back on with the template



and time to route out the chambers bit by bit. That's quite tricky. I take it you guys do that with a handheld router?

It was really hard to see through the dust and every so often the router would tilt and go deeper. I took one bit too deep but it won't be visible



Where's the floor gone?



I sanded the inside of the chambers as i wanted them to look nice when viewed through the f-hole, i stopped at 320 grit.



I was amazed at how light the body was and how the sides flex. I'm really looking forward to hearing how that affects the sound.

[scubadoo]

It's amazing how much quicker everything is with the confidence of the first body under my belt. Everything so far was done within the course of one day, a bit here, abit there.

Next i took a big piece of timber with a good flat edge and glued some 80 grit to it.



I used this to sand across the top of the body.



Every so often i placed a straight edge across the top and look to see if there were any gaps between it and the body.



I scribbled on those bits with a pencil and sanded until the pencil was gone

[scubadoo]

This is the wood for the top



I glued this up but was not really sure that I'd done a good job, I'll post pics and possibly expletives tomorrow.

[scubadoo]

I'm kind of thinking about a double f-hole with no pickguard as I've always liked the look of the Mcarty PRS thinline.

I just need to figure out the placement of the volume/tone knob and the selector switch and the control cavity at the back. I'm thinking something like this.



I fancy an vintage amber finish with double white binding and a strat neck Maybe that hipshot bridge that i've been lusting after?

[Fatmanstratman]

Great job so far!....

Although I'm too late now, just thought I'd mention the bit that other TDPRIers have brought to our attention from their own experiences with making thinlines....

Don't forget to leave a little extra wall thickness around the jack socket area so that you've got sufficient wood to take the 2 screws of your Electrosocket...

However, if you were not intending to use an Electrosocket, opting instead for the 4-screw metal plate jack socket (think Squier Affinity, Les Paul etc.) then totally ignore this post!....

[jwells393]

Now Fatman ........... what's wrong with the traditional jack cup?

Great job there scubadoo. I noticed you didn't leave a thick wall for the front strap button screw. You probably left enough but you could put in a patch before you glue on the top.
It's interesting to see different work around ideas for lack of certain tools..... a thickness planer in your case.

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Fatmanstratman

Great job so far!....

Although I'm too late now, just thought I'd mention the bit that other TDPRIers have brought to our attention from their own experiences with making thinlines....

Don't forget to leave a little extra wall thickness around the jack socket area so that you've got sufficient wood to take the 2 screws of your Electrosocket...

However, if you were not intending to use an Electrosocket, opting instead for the 4-screw metal plate jack socket (think Squier Affinity, Les Paul etc.) then totally ignore this post!....

wish i'd thought of that! I guess i could glue in some timber, or maybe use a les paul style

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jwells393

Now Fatman ........... what's wrong with the traditional jack cup?

Great job there scubadoo. I noticed you didn't leave a thick wall for the front strap button screw. You probably left enough but you could put in a patch before you glue on the top.
It's interesting to see different work around ideas for lack of certain tools..... a thickness planer in your case.

Thanks Jack. It's your fault that I've tried a thinline

I realised about the front strap button whilst typing this thread. I think I'd better do what you suggest and glue a block in.

[scubadoo]

By the way, thanks Jack and Fatman.....I'm planning to glue the top tomorrow so your input was well timed

[ehawley]

First off scubadoo...great thread! I've never done a thinline but some day I'll have too!

Second off ...WHAT IS THAT BREAKFAST! .. ..I've heard of.. bangers and mash..bubble and squeek...but what is that? Is it one of those? Is that Boston baked beans for breakfast?

Third off...HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!
Cheers
ED

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by ehawley

First off scubadoo...great thread! I've never done a thinline but some day I'll have too!

Second off ...WHAT IS THAT BREAKFAST! .. ..I've heard of.. bangers and mash..bubble and squeek...but what is that? Is it one of those? Is that Boston baked beans for breakfast?

Third off...HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!
Cheers
ED

Hee, hee. Thanks Ed. Somewhere under that ketchup and brown sauce is sauage, bacon, mushrooms, baked beans, eggs and toast. That's what we call a full english breakfast. All washed down with a pot of tea.

[scubadoo]

Got woken up early this morning by a delivery of Alder from David Dyke. Looks nice, a couple of little knots to fill but at least no grain filling, hoorah!

Here's the clamping of the maple cap



I found that tricky, there must be a better way. I put a sheet of plastic film between the maple and the wooden block to stop it sticking. When i gave it a light sand i could see a slight dark line at the join. Surely the glue hasn't reacted with the plastic? I don't know if it's it a problem or if it will look ok when finished. What do you think?



The other thing i need to do is add some support to the area at the front strap button and the jack socket, as I'd cut these too thin.

[Fatmanstratman]

Originally Posted by scubadoo

Somewhere under that ketchup and brown sauce is sauage, bacon, mushrooms, baked beans, eggs and toast. That's what we call a full english breakfast. All washed down with a pot of tea.

Not quite a FULL English breakfast - no breakfast is complete without some lovely Black Pudding! Mmmmmm....... * salivating uncontrollably *

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Fatmanstratman

Not quite a FULL English breakfast - no breakfast is complete without some lovely Black Pudding! Mmmmmm....... * salivating uncontrollably *

Black Pudding, mmmmmmmmmmmmm! nothing like a bit of fried pig's blood!

[BAW4742]

Hey Scubadoo. Looks like your thinline is coming along nicely.

I'll be keeping an eye on you. I think there's a thinline in my future too. I want a hogged out body for myself.

I'd have to wash down that birthday breakfast with a big nap. Whew!

[scubadoo]

Do i cut the f-holes before fixing the top on, or after? Doing it after would ensure correct placement but what would i physically cut through the maple with, can you get short jigsaw blades? and wouldn't routing it fill the cavities with dust?

I don't have any files yet, will i need them.

Help!

[newtwanger]

Do i cut the f-holes before fixing the top on, or after?

I think I'd do them before for 2 reasons;

1. Ease of access using a fine jigsaw blade, dremel, finishing files etc. (I'm very particular)

2. If I F___ it up, at least it's not bonded to the rest of the body.

Your work so far is great, keep that momentum!

Can I send you a proper breakfast of Buttermilk Pancakes, Fruit slices, Maple Syrup and Canadian Bacon? That ketchup concoction will kill you.

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by newtwanger

I think I'd do them before for 2 reasons;

1. Ease of access using a fine jigsaw blade, dremel, finishing files etc. (I'm very particular)

2. If I F___ it up, at least it's not bonded to the rest of the body.

Your work so far is great, keep that momentum!

Can I send you a proper breakfast of Buttermilk Pancakes, Fruit slices, Maple Syrup and Canadian Bacon? That ketchup concoction will kill you.

Thanks newtwanger. I think that might be the way to go, i just need to be careful about lining it up when i glue it.

Pancakes, fruit and bacon??? isn't that like breakfast and dessert at the same time?

[BritishBluesBoy]

Originally Posted by scubadoo

Pancakes, fruit and bacon??? isn't that like breakfast and dessert at the same time?

These North American folks do like their sweet and savory stuff together. I could never get my head around fruit salad, bacon, eggs and maple syrup all on the same plate - but this lot seem to love it. Weird.

That thinline is coming along nicely. It's gonna be a looker for sure with that maple top.

Keep it coming...

Cheers!

[BAW4742]

Scribe around the body using a 1/4" or larger spacer block and cut the top to the general finished shape. Then work off of a centerline to layout the f-holes. Use the centerline mark to line up the top for glue up too.

You should be ok especially since your going to put binding on the top.

The two f holes are going to look sharp.

[Ironwolf]

You guys need a proper breakfast of champions. Coffee, cigarettes and little chocolate covered donuts.

[jwl325]

You guys who can carve a guitar out of a tree simply put me in awe!!!!

Really enjoyed the breakfast pics as well!!!

Bill

[Taipan]

scubadoo - Great build you have going on. Happy Birthday and please stay away from that Black Pudding !

[jwells393]

Cutting the F-holes before glueing the top is good in that if you mess up you haven't wasted all your previous work.

On my three semi-hollow builds I cut the holes after glueing the top. I used a template and a router after pre-drilling to remove some of the wood. To route a Fender style F-hole you have to use a 1/4 in. bit. There's not a 1/4 in. pattern bit with a bearing. You can use a 1/4 in straight bit using the bit shaft as a bearing ....... just like the old days before they put bearings on router bits. Depending on your 1/4 in. straight bit, you may find there is some distance between the smooth part of the shaft and the cutter. For this reason, it's good to have an F-hole template that's at least 1/2 in. thick.

......

[alexpigment]

Originally Posted by Fatmanstratman

Not quite a FULL English breakfast - no breakfast is complete without some lovely Black Pudding! Mmmmmm....... * salivating uncontrollably *

when I lived in Spain my house mom tried to feed that to us multiple times. I could never acquire a taste for it. it's the quickest way to go from feeling good to feeling like you're carrying around a tumor in your stomach

[Ironwolf]

Originally Posted by jwells393

Cutting the F-holes before glueing the top is good in that if you mess up you haven't wasted all your previous work.

On my three semi-hollow builds I cut the holes after glueing the top. I used a template and a router after pre-drilling to remove some of the wood. To route a Fender style F-hole you have to use a 1/4 in. bit. There's not a 1/4 in. pattern bit with a bearing. You can use a 1/4 in straight bit using the bit shaft as a bearing ....... just like the old days before they put bearings on router bits. Depending on your 1/4 in. straight bit, you may find there is some distance between the smooth part of the shaft and the cutter. For this reason, it's good to have an F-hole template that's at least 1/2 in. thick.

......

Thats how I've done it on mine, and they've all come out needing only the fuzzys removed with an emory board.

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by jwl325

You guys who can carve a guitar out of a tree simply put me in awe!!!!

Really enjoyed the breakfast pics as well!!!

Bill

God, if i can get this far, anyone can!

[scubadoo]

Thanks to everyone who's given me advice about cutting the f-holes and thanks for posting that picture Jack. Now i know what i need to get.

Whilst i was waiting for the strap button and jack socket support to fix, i rough cut the maple top with a thin jigsaw blade



and glued up the alder boards that arrived this morning. David Dyke had done a nice job of planing the joints so it only took a little sanding to get the join fine.



Then i had to run a little errand to Toolstation. Most of their router bits are cheap rubbish but they had exactly what i needed. I think Freud are good and they're a bit cheaper that the CMT bits I've been using so far.



The one with the bearing is for trimming the maple cap after it's been glued to the ash body and the other is for cutting the f-hole.

Thanks for the advice so far and feel free to send me your local breakfast special . My girlfriend is in Vancouver at the moment, I'll have to ask her what they have there.

[scubadoo]

Time for those pesky f-holes....

I printed out the f-hole pic that Jwells posted and traced it onto the upper part of my 1/4" master template. I started it off with a forstner bit



and then cut as much as i could with a jigsaw. Then i took little bits of sand paper, wrapped them round the shaft of a drill bit and sanded the curved edges. Once i was happy with it i lined it up with the centre line of my maple top and traced the edge



Then I flipped the tempate over and used it to draw a mirror image on the lower part of the maple.

I did the same as on the template, forstner bit (making sure I had a piece of MDF underneath so as to not break the bottom of the maple) and then jigsawed to about 1-2mm from the edge. I used a piece of wood to clamp it down but stupidly didn't notice that it had a blob of dry glue on it that pressed into the maple, ah well, I'll have to sort that out later.



Here's the not so beautiful f-hole after jigsawing.

[scubadoo]

Then i got confused about how i was going to route it. Jack's earlier post pointed out the problem about the router bit but i didn't have any thicker MDF. My plan was to stick some offcuts of 1/4" MDF under the template with double-sided tape to act as a spacer. Make sense?



A bit rough but hopefully it'd work.

Well it worked very well, I'd screwed the template onto the maple using the template screw hole that would be covered by the bridge and I put a new one in where the neck pocket would be. I couldn't use the normal one on my template as I'm planning no pickuard and am going to use the chromed pickup surround from Stewmac, it's lovely!

I set up the bit in the router table and did the first f-hole. That 1/4" maple cut beautifully and I started to think that I could actually do this.

Here's the first one,



needs a bit of tidying up but I'm happy. Next i took off my spacers and stuck them to the other side of the template and then screwed it down so that it lined up with the second f-hole. That cut nicely as well.

I couldn't resist popping a bridge on it



I think something like the modern Gotoh bridge without the raised edges would look better. What do you think?

I sanded off the frayed edges and gave it a general tidy. Even considered finishing it off and gluing the maple to the ash body but felt that things had gone too well and I didn't want to push it!

Decided to take the dogs out instead as there was a lovely sunset.

[newtwanger]

Too delicious (your work, not your breakfast). I'd go Callaham double-cut bridge. Only the best for your best!

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by newtwanger

Too delicious (your work, not your breakfast). I'd go Callaham double-cut bridge. Only the best for your best!

Thanks man, i really appreciate the encouragement! I'm not familiar with that bridge, I'll check it out now.
Cheers
Dave

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by newtwanger

Too delicious (your work, not your breakfast). I'd go Callaham double-cut bridge. Only the best for your best!

do you have a link to or a picture of that bridge?

[MMJeronimo]

Originally Posted by scubadoo

do you have a link to or a picture of that bridge?

I believe they are like this...

(photo from old cane)


http://www.callahamguitars.com/brdge_T.htm

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by MMJeronimo

I believe they are like this...

(photo from old cane)


http://www.callahamguitars.com/brdge_T.htm

NOw that is lovely, but i bet expensive.

[newtwanger]

D'oh, so embarrased

I meant Glendale when I wrote Callaham (even though his stuff it to quality too!)



http://www.glendaleguitars.com/bridgeplates.htm