Questions about Scale Mode Names, and which one to learn next

[Big_Bend]

Ok, for most of my life I was a blues scale improv Texas gunslinger kind of guitar player. Then last year I joined a country band and (finally) started learning the major scale, to go along with a lifetime of minor riffage.

So far so good. Its the same 5 patterns I've always used, just took me awhile to transcribe everything and become fluent and musical with my major scale leads. I'm finally comfortable there too. And by learning the major scale, I actually learned more about the minor scale in the process.

So now I realize there are 5 types of scale modes, called Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, and Mixolydian (and others too of course) but these 5 are matched up with the 5 sets of patterns I've always used.

So I guess my naive question is...

Is the Major scale the Ionian one? And which one is the Minor scale? And of the other 3 scales, what order should I learn them in? I was just reading in the latest Guitar Player about everyone should learn all 5 scales. I have a Fretlight guitar so that'll help.


Hope this makes sense.. thoughts and suggestions appreciated thanks!

[upinthemteles]

Major is the ionian one. Aeolian is your classic sharp five minor scale. Dorian is your sixth minor scale. The lydian scale can be a good choice for major chords. Mixolydian is also gonna be very useful for you, it's just the major scale with a dominant 7th, can be used over dominant (7th) chords.

Sure other guys will pop in too, but for country playing, definitely get in touch with your mixolydian scale

[Valvey]

Ionian is the major scale. The aolean mode is the the mode of the major scale which is commonly used as a minor scale, but there are other minor scales as well, such as the harmonic minor and the melodic minor. For basic musicianship I would learn those first. If you want to get into using modes for improvisation, concentrate on the dorian mode. It has all sorts of uses.

[jbmando]

Originally Posted by upinthemteles

Major is the ionian one. Aeolian is your classic sharp five minor scale. Dorian is your sixth minor scale. The lydian scale can be a good choice for major chords. Mixolydian is also gonna be very useful for you, it's just the major scale with a dominant 7th, can be used over dominant (7th) chords.

Sure other guys will pop in too, but for country playing, definitely get in touch with your mixolydian scale

Aeolian has a perfect 5th as far as I know. In fact, all of the minor modes have perfect 5ths -Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian. Maybe I'm misinformed or misunderstanding your post.

What do you mean by "sixth minor?" The 6th degree of a major scale (the root's relative minor) is the Aeolian mode.

[jbmando]

One way to hear what the modes sound like is to think of them in terms of " _ to _ in (Key)." Here's what I mean:
1 to 1 = Ionian
2 to 2 = Dorian
3 to 3 = Phrygian
4 to 4 = Lydian
5 to 5 = Mixolydian
6 to 6 = Aeolian
7 to 7 = Locrian

If you know your major scales, you can find any mode this way, and learn how to put the tonal center in , for example, D while playing the notes of the C major scale, you are in D Dorian. It's the way I got my feet wet on modes. YMMV.

[klasaine]

'classic #5 minor scale' ... I'm using that. I have no idea what it is but I like the sound of it.

If you're not gonna play the whole mode/scale I wouldn't worry about linking them to the maj and min pentas you already know. Modes are really not necessary unless you're gonna play jazz, prog, fusion or types of ethnic music. For country and rock knowing the difference between the major and minor pentas and how they work is really all one needs - and that's a lot actually.

[Big_Bend]

Wow thanks for the responses guys much appreciated!


Confession time, ya'll lost me on much of what has been discussed so far. I just do not do theory very well sorry.


But what I have learned -

1) The major scale I've recently learned is Ionian

2) The minor scale I've always played is Aeolian

3) The next 2 scales I should learn are Mixolydian, which is a variant of the major scale.. and Dorian, which is a variant of a minor scale (I think)

Cool!! That ought keep me busy for the next year or two.


The Fretlight guitar is really good for this sorta thing. After a lifetime of blues scale stuff, I had a hard time learning the major pentatonic stuff... the lights really did the trick for me, and will help too with learning Mixolydian and Dorian.

Aeolian has a perfect 5th as far as I know. In fact, all of the minor modes have perfect 5ths -Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian.

Ok what does this mean, what is a perfect 5th? Be gentle please.


Thx again ya'll!

[jbmando]

This is pretty good, for Wikipedia.

In classical music from Western culture, a fifth is a musical interval encompassing five staff positions (see Interval number for more details), and the perfect fifth (often abbreviated P5) is a fifth spanning seven semitones, or in meantone, four diatonic semitones and three chromatic semitones. For example, the interval from C to G is a perfect fifth, as the note G lies seven semitones above C, and there are five staff positions from C to G. Diminished and augmented fifths span the same number of staff positions, but consist of a different number of semitones (six and eight, respectively).

The perfect fifth may be derived from the harmonic series as the interval between the second and third harmonics. In a diatonic scale, the dominant note is a perfect fifth above the tonic note.

The perfect fifth is more consonant, or stable, than any other interval except the unison and the octave. It occurs above the root of all major and minor chords (triads) and their extensions. Until the late 19th century, it was often referred to by one of its Greek names, diapente.[1] Its inversion is the perfect fourth.

[jbmando]

Bb, when I said that those modes have perfect fifths, what I meant was that the 5th degree of the mode is a perfect 5th, 7 semitones (half-steps - frets, in guitarese) from the tonic. Look at Dorian - D to D with no sharps or flats, hence, D E F G A B C D. A is a perfect fifth up from D.

[DeepSouth]

Scale Mode Names...

I Know - Ionian
Dolly - Dorian
Parton - Phrygian
Likes - Lydian (Li sounds like how you say Lydian phonetically at least)
Music - Mixolydian
A - Aeolian
Lot - Locrian

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by DeepSouth

Scale Mode Names...

I Know - Ionian
Dolly - Dorian
Parton - Phrygian
Likes - Lydian (Li sounds like how you say Lydian phonetically at least)
Music - Mixolydian
A - Aeolian
Lot - Locrian

I had no idear modes were so Country!

[DeepSouth]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

I had no idear modes were so Country!

Well I guess Dolly likes to keep aBreast of these things

[Big_Bend]

Originally Posted by DeepSouth

Well I guess Dolly likes to keep aBreast of these things

This is good stuff! I'm learning a lot.


So, after Dorian and Mixolydian, what is the 5th one I should learn? The one that corresponds with the 5th pattern I already know... thx again. Since there are 7 listed and Guitar Player said I needed to learn 5. I don't want to learn the wrong scale hehe.

[jbmando]

Skip (for now) Phrygian and Locrian. The other five are the main ones you will use, but when you really get into minor key music, you will at some point want to become familiar with the differences in harmonic, melodic and natural minors and leading tones for the dominant in a minor key song or tune. Forum member Joe-Bob has a lot to say on minor key harmony. Maybe he will weigh in.

[Big_Bend]

Thanks JB! You've answered all my questions, much appreciated. I have much to learn (don't we all). It never ends, which is a good thing.


Take care...

[Jack S]

If you want to learn the modes and you have a keyboard handy, it is useful to examine the key of C Major which is all white keys on the keyboard. Start with a C and walk up each white key to the next C and that is the C Ionian Mode. Now start on the next key after the C and walk up all white keys, so D to D is the D Dorian mode. E to E all white keys is E Phrygian, etc. for the remaining white keys and modes. Because it is so visual and linear on the keyboard it is a good way to familiarize yourself to sounds of these modes.

This is what JBMando was showing above in his first post, I am just putting it in different words.

[Big_Bend]

Originally Posted by Jack S

This what JBMando was showing above in his first post, I am just putting it in different words.

Wow cool thanks, bonus section! I do have a nice keyboard, which I have very little idea how to play. I bet if I learned how to play the 12 major and 12 minor chords on the piano that too would help my guitar playing. Something else I've been wanting to learn someday.


Fun stuff....

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by upinthemteles

Aeolian is your classic sharp five minor scale. Dorian is your sixth minor scale.

Mixolydian is also gonna be very useful for you, it's just the major scale with a dominant 7th, can be used over dominant (7th) chords.

Sure other guys will pop in too, but for country playing, definitely get in touch with your mixolydian scale

A 'dominant 7th' is a type of chord not a scale degree. It would be more appropriate to say that the mixolydian mode is a major scale with a flatted 7th degree.

[P Thought]

Originally Posted by jbmando

One way to hear what the modes sound like is to think of them in terms of " _ to _ in (Key)." Here's what I mean:
1 to 1 = Ionian
2 to 2 = Dorian
3 to 3 = Phrygian
4 to 4 = Lydian
5 to 5 = Mixolydian
6 to 6 = Aeolian
7 to 7 = Locrian

If you know your major scales, you can find any mode this way, and learn how to put the tonal center in , for example, D while playing the notes of the C major scale, you are in D Dorian. It's the way I got my feet wet on modes. YMMV.

jbmando, I think you just nailed this down for me. I've been hoping somebody would. It's 4 a.m. and my wrist is hurting too much for guitar (sort of a revolting development), but I see a new breakthrough coming here. Thank you.

[bigbandtele]

I
Don't
Particularly
Like
Modes
A
Lot