Theory - Am I Dumb?

[markesquire]

Perhaps it's a dangerous question to ask. I don't think I'm dumb. I'm not the smartest person I know, but I have a terminal degree, I read philosophy in my spare time and work with logic puzzles all day every day. I can also chew gum and walk at the same time.

Why is it impossible for me to "get" music theory? I'm trying so hard to learn some jazz (and generally progress past the chords and blues licks that I've been playing for 10 years), and there's no getting around the fact that you just need to know some theory in order to "speak" the music instead of simply re-stating the rehearsed equivalent of "where is the bathroom" over and over and over.

Is there any half-way "easy" way to wrap my head around theory? I listen to jazz guitarists try to explain "simple" concepts and it makes me want to quit playing altogether out of a frustration that I will never get it!

Help!

[mrboson]

Lots of other, way-more-qualified-than-me folks will post soon with some wisdom for you.

But I think I do have a tip. I too struggled with getting theory, until I was put in a position to have to try and teach it to someone who knew less than me. Things that were not making sense suddenly started to click when I found myself teaching it.

[Sharp5]

What part are you having trouble with?

[getbent]

Private Pyle, you want to be different!

[w3stie]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one. There are some very smart guys on this particular forum, I know that because I can't understand a damn thing they say ;) I have given up on understanding "jazz" and have taken the tack of learning and analysing individual standards like Autumn Leaves.

[' burn 08]

I don't think it's impossible for you to "get" it, it's just a matter of finding a way to relate to it. And having to explain something to someone else, as mentioned above, is a great way to really "get" something. It's not just the "how's" it's the "why's." I'm no expert, but I think it can seem overwhelming sometimes when you are jus bombarded with a ton of theory at once. Baby steps. Take what you do understand and start to expand on that. That would be a good place to start.

[slowpinky]

You might also be a very logical individual..so tell us what exactly doesnt add up....bearing in mind that an advanced theory of any art - and particularly music, is fraught with contradictions, subjective aspects and inconsistencies.

Then you have to apply it to the guitar itself.......

But if we are talking fundamentals, then its something I think we can all agree on - so let us know....

[getbent]

I'm betting you didn't get your terminal degree by studying alone...

get thee to a teacher Doc!

[dconeill]

Read and study "The Jazz Theory Book" by Mark Levine.

There's no shortcut to studying this stuff, but it's not all that hard if it's explained well.

[bobsway]

Jazz is to music as calculus is to math, probably not the best place to start. I only know theory because it was interesting to me to study it as a beginner in my teens, but it started with good old Mel Bay and material like Mary Had A Little Lamb, etc, and went from there. Baby steps. First scales, then chords, then keys, its all relative.

[tap4154]

Jazz is easy.

Just add one sour note to each chord, and play the wrong notes in solos.

;o)

[alfbell]

It is all about gradients. The first step is to start with BASICS. The rudiments of music. That is all that really exists. How well you know your basics is how well you can understand theory and play. The first step is fully understanding the definition of all musical terms. Get a good fundamentals/rudiments of music book (that has excellent definitions) and study it from cover to cover until you know the rudiments/basics inside and out and all musical terms. You can never overdo it on studying basics. The only thing that can hang you up is if you don't fully understand a musical term or if you've skipped a gradient (example: you are studying about using a diminished chord as a passing chord and it doesn't make sense... the skipped gradient may be that you don't fully understand what a diminished chord is, how it is constructed, the mathmatical significance, etc.). Levine's Jazz Theory Book might be good but you may need to start with an easier book first. Contact a music school or conservatory's book store (Berklee School of Music in Boston, etc.) and ask them to give you a list of their beginning and basic theory books that they use. Also you can do the Dick Grove courses on line (School Without Walls) which I hear is the best education there is.

[Larry F]

There are a couple of things that you need to have memorized cold. These are: the 12 major scales, the 12 major triads (in the abstract), the minor triads, and the diatonic seventh chords.

If you cannot spell these in notes, you will not be able to fully understand examples of many theoretical concepts. Concepts such as melodic construction based on a chord progression, harmonizing a melody, and substituting chords will be difficult without the ability to understand and create examples of these abstract concepts.

The very good news is that it is not hard to find these notes written down somewhere. If you give me an example of your fluency in naming and spelling these concepts, I can try to steer you to the next most important concept.

[slowpinky]

If you cannot spell these in notes, you will not be able to fully understand examples of many theoretical concepts. Concepts such as melodic construction based on a chord progression, harmonizing a melody, and substituting chords will be difficult without the ability to understand and create examples of these abstract concepts.

+1

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by getbent

I'm betting you didn't get your terminal degree by studying alone...

get thee to a teacher Doc!

+1 on that ... and to what LarryF says.
You need the fundamentals from a good teacher who knows how to supplement each 'step' with a real world application for you.
Ex: TEACHER says ... "today we'll talk about the 3rd and 7th of chords - and since you said you're starting to play some jazz tell me a couple of the tunes you're working on/with and we'll pick one to apply this 'black art' of the 3rd and 7th to".
STUDENT answers ... "cool, me and the guys always play Misty (no clint eastwood jokes) and I hate my solo, etc. ... "

Working in this fashion now gives you motivation to 1) listen to the teacher carefully and 2) apply it almost immediately and 3) due to 1 and 2 - retain it.

P.S. In no way am I talking down to you.
I've found though over the years that it's not always so obvious as to what a good teacher/student relationship should/can be.

[MikeSRV69]

As a 20 year guitar teacher, I can tell you that LarryF is speaking the truth. You have to have those major scales, chords, and such down cold. Look at it this way: you have to know them as well as you know the basics of our written and spoken language so that you are not only getting the mechanics of something down but that you can understand the meaning of what is being played. Think 'reading for comprehension'. I tell my students that it is the difference between going on vacation with the Spanish/English dictionary and being able to think in Spanish. Get those basics down and the rest will seem a lot more do-able.

[Sherpa]

Great thread, and fwiw, you're not alone, OP!

[banjohabit]

i'm starting over on this soon, but my first (non-informed) step was to learn the names of chords and WHY they are called what they are called. i learned a lot just from that.

right now, i am concentrating on learning note-for-note solos by my guitar heros, hoping to pick up on "approach" and "feel", which i am. and, lo and behold, i'm recognizing the fragments of theory i've learned so far all in their solos,so, yes, this stuff is necessity and you are on the right track, but (like me) your progress may be incremental.

that's fine, progress is progress.

[P Thought]

Larry, that's a great list. It will help me focus my efforts.

I've been working on my understanding of music, and it's coming along, but I'm always finding myself slackjawed at music discussions that fly over my head. It's clear to me that my not having the notes ready in my head is stopping me from much understanding. By the time I stop to count stuff from the root note, the discussion's disappeared over the horizon. . .och, tamale.

[markesquire]

Originally Posted by Larry F

There are a couple of things that you need to have memorized cold. These are: the 12 major scales, the 12 major triads (in the abstract), the minor triads, and the diatonic seventh chords.

Ok. This is what I need to know. Can you explain these things futher, or point me to a reference so I know how to make some flash cards and get this stuff under my belt?

I quit piano lessons as a kid because it was all heady and no fun; there was no meaningful milestone in sight and I just kept learning harder and harder songs that I didn't care to play. I escaped to guitar, where you could have fun as quick as you could learn power chords, then progress little by little while at least having a building block of stuff that you can enjoy.

I need the equivalent of "jazz power chords." Give me a limited number of things (chords and scales) that I can wrap my mind around through rote memorization, with the promise that I'll at least be able to DO SOMETHING FUN with those pieces as I continue building upon them. I understand that a person can keep learning new things forever, but I need something to latch onto. If the upfront investment means that I need to study theory for 10 years before I can even start to play jazz, I'll be honest, it's just not going to happen for me.