How to practice phrasing?

[upinthemteles]

Hey guys, been playing at a jam lately. Last night I had what I thought was a good solo over recordame. A little after that song one of the old guys pulled me aside and said I needed to work on phrasing and rhythm. He's basically the ******* of the group and isn't scared to give some constructive criticism, but there's probably a grain of truth to what he said. He's a good musician, plays trumpet, piano, and bass.

So how do I practice this? I was thinking get the metronome out, practice triplets and whatnot, not really sure what else to do? He is right, I've never really practiced phrasing.

[McGlamRock]

I would venture to guess that he's talking about the rhythmic diversity of your solo? If that's the case, the best way to work on that is to listen and copy other players' licks.

another suggestion: when i feel 'in a rut' with my playing, I'll often seek out another player I admire and take a lesson. It can be nice to get a different perspective every once in a while.

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by McGlamRock

I would venture to guess that he's talking about the rhythmic diversity of your solo? If that's the case, the best way to work on that is to listen and copy other players' licks.

+1
To get sort of 'specific' ... lead into/anticipate the next change.
For example: with Recordame, play a ii - V line that 'leads to' the Cm7 (from the Am7). Dm7b5 - G7b9 to the Cm.
In the second section (the descending ii - V's): construct longer lines that AREN'T separated by the individual chords - that inter-weave the chord changes. Make that Bbmaj7 flow seamlessly into the Bbm7 - there's several common tones and just dropping the maj.3rd and maj.7th down by 1/2 steps to the m3 and m7 is quite effective. (You can do that two and a half times in three keys in that section.)

*And definitely listen to Joe Henderson and Kenny Dorham play it!


Check out how they let up to two full bars go by w/o playing anything.
JH is also the 'master' of the sequence (same interval set or scale type over several chords).
Everyone into jazz should have this record (Page One - blue note)

[Sherpa]

You might try emulating horn and vocal lines, to help break out of the comfort zone - its a fun and effective way to explore new approaches to phrasing and voicing.

[slowpinky]

Originally Posted by klasaine

+1
To get sort of 'specific' ... lead into/anticipate the next change.
For example: with Recordame, play a ii - V line that 'leads to' the Cm7 (from the Am7). Dm7b5 - G7b9 to the Cm.
In the second section (the descending ii - V's): construct longer lines that AREN'T separated by the individual chords - that inter-weave the chord changes. Make that Bbmaj7 flow seamlessly into the Bbm7 - there's several common tones and just dropping the maj.3rd and maj.7th down by 1/2 steps to the m3 and m7 is quite effective. (You can do that two and a half times in three keys in that section.)

*And definitely listen to Joe Henderson and Kenny Dorham play it!


Check out how they let up to two full bars go by w/o playing anything.
JH is also the 'master' of the sequence (same interval set or scale type over several chords).
Everyone into jazz should have this record (Page One - blue note)

Thats very good (and rare) advice....

[upinthemteles]

Originally Posted by klasaine

+1
For example: with Recordame, play a ii - V line that 'leads to' the Cm7 (from the Am7). Dm7b5 - G7b9 to the Cm.

Thanks for the advice, I'm working on just this part still. A ii - V that leads to the Cm7 makes a lot of sense, but I would have never thought of it on my own.

So a lick like, D F G# B G Eb in the second measure, with the Eb on the first beat of the Cmin7, right?

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by upinthemteles

So a lick like, D F G# B G Eb in the second measure, with the Eb on the first beat of the Cmin7, right?

Yeah, good one - there's an almost unlimited amount of 'new' and cool sounds you can get when you anticipate the changes.

[raito]

Look on the bright side -- he didn't complain about your note choice. If he had said something about that too, he'd be politely telling you that you don't know how to solo.

Let's start with rhythm. Having nothing else to go on, I'll assume he meant the rhythm of your solo, meaning the durations of the various notes and how those fit together. On the one hand, some of the shredding out there is rhythmically boring because all the notes are the same duration. It doesn't really matter if it's fast or slow, all the same is dull. Out on the other end, if every stinkin' sound has a different duration, it sounds disjointed.

One way to practice rhythm in a solo is to start by playing the notes of your solo rhythmically as the rhythm player would play them. It doesn't matter what scale or arpeggio you use, as long as it's not jarring. Just play up or down the scale/arpeggio in the rhythm of the song.

Next, move on to playing the melody of the song. Just the straight melody. It'll get you ready to go back to the scale/arpeggio thing in the rhythm of the melody.

Now it gets fun. Start splitting or combining the note durations. If you want to get really pedantic, split and combine every single note in the rhythm of the song, or the rhythm of the melody. It'll give you a feel for where you can change the rhythm a bit and get a good result, rhythmically. Start with a single note for splitting, or 2 notes for combining. Then combinations of 2 notes. And so on. Pretty soon, after you do this for a bunch of songs, you'll start getting a feel for what works and what doesn't within the context of the song.

Phrasing? Again, without additional information, I'll go with the idea that the problem is that your solos don't flow very well. There's 2 sides to work here. The first is traditional phrasing, meaning which sets of notes flow. To practice that, you're going to go to the metronome for a while, and play those scale/arpeggios, all with the same duration (which seems contrary to what I said above, but really isn't). Say you're going to play eighth notes. You play the first 2 notes legato, then the next 6 legato. Make a distinct break in the flow between those 2 phrases, even though you're still playing eighth notes. Now start varying the number of notes per phrase, keeping that break at the end of the measure. When you have that down, put in 2 breaks per bar, or 1 break per 2 bars, etc.

The second side is rests. Do like the above exercise, but instead leave a single note rest where you had a break. Then try 2 rests, then longer rests, etc.

All this does is give you a technical grounding. Then it's up to you to apply it by putting the right notes in, with the correct number of notes in each legato phrase, broken up by the right number and duration of rests.

I'll tell you, these exercises are pretty dry stuff (I've done'em, but not on guitar). But they're as much mental as physical chops that you're developing.

[upinthemteles]

Originally Posted by klasaine

In the second section (the descending ii - V's): construct longer lines that AREN'T separated by the individual chords - that inter-weave the chord changes. Make that Bbmaj7 flow seamlessly into the Bbm7 - there's several common tones and just dropping the maj.3rd and maj.7th down by 1/2 steps to the m3 and m7 is quite effective. (You can do that two and a half times in three keys in that section.)

working on this part now, I made a line that starts by dropping the V chords dominant seventh to the maj third of the one, hit a few notes that are in the I and ii, then start over. It sounds like one of those descending jazz lines that I always hear but never figured out.

Originally Posted by raito

One way to practice rhythm in a solo is to start by playing the notes of your solo rhythmically as the rhythm player would play them. It doesn't matter what scale or arpeggio you use, as long as it's not jarring. Just play up or down the scale/arpeggio in the rhythm of the song.

I'm doing what you said too. I can barely play the arpeggios with a metronome, especially with no rests, so this is probably helping a lot. I've never put in any metronome time, I guess it's time to start paying my dues.

Melodies are a shamble too, but I've definitely been making some headway. It helps a lot to listen to the song. Haha, that sounds so obvious, but I've probably neglected that too.

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by upinthemteles

working on this part now, I made a line that starts by dropping the V chords dominant seventh to the maj third of the one, hit a few notes that are in the I and ii, then start over. It sounds like one of those descending jazz lines that I always hear but never figured out.

Outstanding! ... that'll be $60.00. kidding of course.
It's incredible what a little bit of info and some practice time can accomplish isn't it?

*the snarky comment is not at all directed at you upinthemteles - it's just a general middle finger to all those who poo poo lessons, information, a practice regime ... knowledge and learning, etc.

[winny pooh]

Phrasing? How about playing along recordings and perfectly emulating some good singers.

[gionnio]

Originally Posted by winny pooh

Phrasing? How about playing along recordings and perfectly emulating some good singers.

I was recently working up Stars Fell on Alabama with a sax player and he suggested I listen to the Frank Sinatra version to get a feel for it. Good advice!

[slowpinky]

Phrasing? How about playing along recordings and perfectly emulating some good singers.

Yes this is also good - but I thought I'd emphasise that bit because its key to the whole exercise - and to separate it from just approximating things - Billie Holiday is where I'd start..but Sinatra , Joao Gilberto , Stevie, Jill Scott, James Brown , Macey Gray are great too...

[klasaine]

Nat Cole
Stevie Wonder
Carmen McRae

Yeah ... singers, good! Though all the really good ones'll tell ya that they emulate horn players - lol!
(cant find a vox version of recorda me)

[jhundt]

you might try recording yourself at the jam session (or over a backing track) and listening to yourself. Maybe you will hear your own phrasing problem better when you are not so wrapped up in performing.

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by jhundt

you might try recording yourself at the jam session (or over a backing track) and listening to yourself. Maybe you will hear your own phrasing problem better when you are not so wrapped up in performing.

+ 1000!

For better or for worse I get to hear (and see) myself all the time now due to everybody and his brother finding it necessary to record everything on an iphone - all the time - lol! It can be quite illuminating.

[btlnckr]

Robben Ford ...in all his videos says he emmulates horn players for soloing...as for singers, man, Billie Holliday, Mel Torme, any of the great Scatters - Hendricks Pierson & Shaw...Cab Calloway... the real syncopated singers. Try listening to Dan Hicks vocals sometime.

[LukeBlues]

How to have a good soloning and rhythm? Close your eyes and listen the bass, the drum, don't stop your mind on your guitar... feel the blues!

[sir humphrey]

Try to think vocally when playing - imagine you are having a conversation. An interesting conversation has a wide range of vocal inflections and phrasing - talking faster and louder when excited, or arguing, or whispering etc

Pause for "breath", don't say too much and try to be articulate.

The guitar is an extremely vocal instrument - it operates in the same frequency range as the human voice - and it's no surprise that the best soloists tend to sound very "conversational" in their playing.

A useful exercise is to actually have a conversation with yourself - make up an interesting scenario (a fight, a breakup etc) - then actually talk the conversation through in your head while playing along to it, phrasing your guitar like the people in the conversation.

[Mjark]

Less is more. I often wonder if the guys that seem to make micro adjustments to the volume or tone knobs on their guitars constantly during solos just use it as a way to restrain themselves. I know I should do it more often.