understanding the capo

[boo radley]

I feel like an idiot, but I don't really understand the capo.

I was playing with a friend, who was playing piano, and wanted to play Johnny Nash's "I can see clearly". I play this in D, mostly around the 5th fret, but also with a fair amount of stuff in the open position. My friend said there's no way he could sing that high, and suggested another key, and said 'use a capo.'

But if he wants to sing in a lower register, doesn't using a capo automatically ensure I'm playing *higher*? My D is now a D# (with capo on 1st). I'm clearly missing something conceptually. How can you use a capo to ever play with a singer who wants to sing in a *lower* key? Thx!

[Tim Armstrong]

You generally end up having to use different chord shapes if you want to drop the key one or two steps, but if you want to keep 'em, move the capo down from the 12th fret...

Tim

[Daddydex]

You should learn how to transpose without the capo first. Once you get that down the capo will make perfect sense.

Dan

[boo radley]

Thx...hmm, I never thought about moving the capo down from the 12th...<trying> Man, that's no fun. :) Sounds like a ukulele....

Dan, I see your point but I was hoping this would require less effort. It's the open-string licks that don't transpose well (for me).

[bingy]

As an aside...I am currently promoting the Great Johnny "Guitar" Watson.
He uses the capo a lot like Muddy Waters used it...so they can play their E formations in other keys up the neck...
Sometimes, because it is a better fit with horns.
Check out this funky use of capo.

[Alex W]

The singer can't the high notes in the original key, but singing an octave down is too low. Use the capo to play the song in a higher pitch. Now the lower octave is more comfortable for the singer.

[limbe]

A not unusual "trick" when you are singing a tune you used to do a long time ago where you just could reach the high notes and can´t anymore is to have one guitar that´s tuned lower than standard tuning.Obviously you can´t go a big step down but tuning the guitar to D or even C usually isn´t a problem and even easier if you change the string gauge.

[boo radley]

Originally Posted by Alex W

The singer can't the high notes in the original key, but singing an octave down is too low. Use the capo to play the song in a higher pitch. Now the lower octave is more comfortable for the singer.

AH!

[jbmando]

Originally Posted by Alex W

The singer can't the high notes in the original key, but singing an octave down is too low. Use the capo to play the song in a higher pitch. Now the lower octave is more comfortable for the singer.

This is true. My initial thought was that the singer doesn't understand the capo, and must think it is just an automatic transposing device.

[boo radley]

Hmm...has come back again. One of the songs the piano player wants to do is Steely Dan's "Do it again." What a great song.

I'm looking up the charts/videos/tabs, and I see that it's in the key of Gm, and while the solo is pretty unapproachable at the moment, the verse is mainly keys, and the chorus is Cm7, Dm7 and EbMaj7 and Gm7 (the 'back, Jack, do it again..' part).

Except -- the piano player says he plays it in Dm with Dm7 and Em7 over the verse, and Gm7 Am7 BbMaj7 (Am7) on the chorus.

So now I'm scratching my head. First, while I've not heard him play it, from Gm to Dm?? Is he singing/playing much higher or lower? That seems like a huge change in key. Second, there's no way I can play any of the interesting fills in the intro w/out putting the capo on the 7th fret, then I'm playing way on up the neck....

[jazztele]

There's no way? What fills are you talking about?

This is obviously a case for non-capoed transposing...

[castpolymer]

The capo is the truest friend of hack's like myself.

[boo radley]

Originally Posted by jazztele

There's no way? What fills are you talking about?

This is obviously a case for non-capoed transposing...

jazztele -- for example in the beginning, there is this octave riff: start with the 'A' on the D string 7th fret, and the pinky playing the octave on the B string. Slide it up and down a half-step (A -> A#) then down to the G, down to the F, then D on the A string 5th fret.

X X X
10->11->10
X X X
7->8 ->7
X X X
X X X

Something like that. It just sounds very sharp (and not very good) to my ear if I play with a capo on the 7th and starting at the 14th fret (E) on the D string....

Hmm....but it DOES sound good if I ditch the capo, and play the octave shapes using the E on the 7th fret A string. That's also easier than the original, too, since I don't need to change the octave shape when I do the string fills.

I guess it's just a matter of....work. Sitting down and transposing, note for note. Damn I'm lazy. :)

[jazztele]

The work will be worth it.

To me, the capo is a tool for getting the sound of "open strings" to be higher. For transposition, it's a tool of "last resort."

JMHO.

[greggorypeccary]

I joined a country band a few years ago and the other guitarist insisted I use a capo. A lot of the songs were in C# because (apparently) that's the key that all these country women sing in.
I did relent on a couple of songs where I really needed the open chord shapes, but otherwise - F--- that - I can play in different keys without the hassle of that.

I'm now in a band with horns, so we do a bunch of tunes in Eb. No, I'm not tuning down either.

[tjalla]

Originally Posted by jazztele

The work will be worth it.

To me, the capo is a tool for getting the sound of "open strings" to be higher. For transposition, it's a tool of "last resort."

JMHO.

This exactly.

Another thing I've only recently managed to get my head around more is still looking at the fretboard in absolute concert pitch - just so happens I have a 6th finger helping me out with a barre.

Eg capoed at 3rd fret playing a 'D' shape, but knowing I'm still in voicing F, C, F, A.

[bingy]

Don't think of capoing up 7 frets as way up the neck. think of it as playing a smaller guitar.

[jbmando]

Originally Posted by tjalla

This exactly.

Another thing I've only recently managed to get my head around more is still looking at the fretboard in absolute concert pitch - just so happens I have a 6th finger helping me out with a barre.

Eg capoed at 3rd fret playing a 'D' shape, but knowing I'm still in voicing F, C, F, A.

Yes I decided a while ago to name the chords in concert pitch and it is really helpful for doing songs off a lead sheet or a rhythm chart with just chord symbols. No transposing, just play the chords as written.

[boneyguy]

Something that seems to be a misconception to me is the idea that some keys are higher or lower compared to other keys. That's just not the case. It's all relative, right? Is D# really a 'higher' key than D. Well that would depend on the range your playing in, right?

And in a related way it's not accurate to think of having to sing in a higher or lower range in one key as compared to another. Will you automatically be singing lower notes in the key of 'A' as compared to the key of 'B'. Well it depends on what those notes are. We could easily have a melody in 'A' that is higher in pitch than a melody in 'B' within the same range.

So, to answer the OP, moving the capo up the neck ( D to D# to E etc) will require the singer at some point to drop into a lower octave to be able to sing the melody and that's where they will begin to find a comfortable range to sing in. But keys aren't really higher or lower compared to each other in some absolute way.

[Mojohand40]

Originally Posted by boneyguy

Something that seems to be a misconception to me is the idea that some keys are higher or lower compared to other keys. That's just not the case. It's all relative, right? Is D# really a 'higher' key than D. Well that would depend on the range your playing in, right?

And in a related way it's not accurate to think of having to sing in a higher or lower range in one key as compared to another. Will you automatically be singing lower notes in the key of 'A' as compared to the key of 'B'. Well it depends on what those notes are. We could easily have a melody in 'A' that is higher in pitch than a melody in 'B' within the same range.

So, to answer the OP, moving the capo up the neck ( D to D# to E etc) will require the singer at some point to drop into a lower octave to be able to sing the melody and that's where they will begin to find a comfortable range to sing in. But keys aren't really higher or lower compared to each other in some absolute way.

Bingo!
Exactly! The idea that keys are "lower" or "higher" is indeed a misconception.
That is why a capo is so handy in certain situations, especially in acoustic settings (like bluegrass) where the guitarist really needs to hold together the "bass" and rhythm. Some chords shapes don't really offer the "best" choice for this for some songs.
Two handy tips:
1) When playing with someone who is singing, have them sing a verse and hold the last note a bit... now find this note on your guitar, i.e. an "A" a "C#" whatever...now this is the Key that person will more then likely be the most comfortable singing that particular song in....now figure how to get there with a capo. (most songs tend to end a verse on the root note)
2) sometimes when playing with another acoustic guitar (two people playing guitars), a good way to avoid sounding like mud is to have one player play without a capo (say in "G" with a G chord..the 1 chord) while the other uses a capo but a different chord shape...(like an "D" capoed at the 5th fret, which makes it a G... etc..)

while capos are NOT common in all forms of music (and rarely seen on electric guitars..) they are quite common in acoustic folk/roots/bluegrass styles and have been for many years, knowing how and when to use one is a skill well worth learning.
Folks who say, "Capos are silly and should never be used.." usually don't understand the hows and whys and WHENS before dismissing them.

Notice Earl's use of a Capo way up on the 7th fret, he's playing C chord over Lesters G chord..sounds pretty good, no?: