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Old August 28th, 2010, 02:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The best chord learning tool youve never heard of!

My friend invented this thing, and I promised I would help him get it out there. it is a chord diagramming/transposing/transcribing tool, that basically takes a chord dictionary and chords wheel, and condenses it into one easy to use package. It doesnt just hold your hand through the fretboard, but helps you learn and find your own way. Let me know what you think.

https://chordtool.com/store/

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Old August 28th, 2010, 04:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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No offense to your friend but Neck DIagrams is much, much better than this.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 07:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I remember seeing that thing advertised in Guitar Player. I checked it out on the web. Tell you friend that he could actually explain what the thing does on his website if he wants to sell some
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Old August 28th, 2010, 09:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I remember seeing that thing advertised in Guitar Player. I checked it out on the web. Tell you friend that he could actually explain what the thing does on his website if he wants to sell some
Go to Overview, and there is a "click here"ink that gives you an up close of the instructions.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated
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Old August 28th, 2010, 09:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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http://www.guitarwheel.com/guitarwhe...tar_Wheel.html

I picked one of these up and they're awesome.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 10:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have a couple of those Guitar wheels, and the ChordTul is easier to use in my opinion, the color coded system is easier to grasp in a visual manner, it just feels more intuitive to me. Of course, Im a bit biased.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 10:23 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Those things (in my opinion 'gimmicks') don't teach you anything.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 10:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Those things (in my opinion 'gimmicks') don't teach you anything.
Youre right, they are just tools, meant to enhance your learning, theyre not meant to teach you everything. They are very useful for someone who is self taught, or someone who learns better visually.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 10:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think the gimmick argument better applies to physical functions. Everyone can agree that reading a card won't help your chops, but as far as learning theory goes, anything that makes the concepts easier to visualize or digest is a great thing.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 08:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Go to Overview, and there is a "click here"ink that gives you an up close of the instructions.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated
been there done that got the t-shirt. If i said i could'nt figure out what it does its because i looked at the website and it wasnt clear. I get an idea of what it does however there was NO indication of what the slider does. So I moved on, will not go back.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 10:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The screenshot summed it up for me-- calling the m3 a D# in a C minor scale? This is obviously not a program I want anything to do with.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 10:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The screenshot sumed it up for me-- calling the m3 a D# in a C minor scale? This is obviously not a program I want anything to do with.
Not too mention it says A# (it's Bb thank you very much) for all the C dominant chords (and scales). And, if you don't know why there's a difference, you shouldn't be telling ANYBODY anything about music ... much less charging for it.

This kind of stuff is anathema to learning about music - guitar specific or otherwise. It's like buying the X-RAY glasses in the back of an old comic book.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 10:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I always used chorderator (www.chorderator.com) and the downloadable version in the Guitarator Toolbox (http://store.guitarator.com/toolbox/intro/) Best $17.99 I have spent. Not affiliated, but I like the software.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 10:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input, ill pass it along. He does state on the product that #'s are used for simplicity, and b's may be substituted accordingly. I see where youre coming from though.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input, ill pass it along.
You're welcome.

I'm re-reading my post and it sounds punchy at best and big a-hole at worst, but I'm being honest--when I look at instructional material, my eye catches stuff like that immediately.

Knowing that the third of C is E, therefore the flatted third should be an Eb and not a D# is something anyone with half a semester of high school music could probably tell you. That's a huge screaming red flag and leads me to think there'll be plenty of other errors in the program. If your friend really wants to make a go of this, he needs to sit down with someone who really knows music and let them pick through it-- an error like that is an absolute dealbreaker which instantly made me say "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about."

I'm sorry to be harsh, but there's tons of crap instructional material available for both free and $ on the net. Your friend will need to correct this in order to rise above the muck.

I sincerely wish him luck in his efforts.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 11:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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You're welcome.

I'm re-reading my post and it sounds punchy at best and big a-hole at worst, but I'm being honest--when I look at instructional material, my eye catches stuff like that immediately.

Knowing that the third of C is E, therefore the flatted third should be an Eb and not a D# is something anyone with half a semester of high school music could probably tell you. That's a huge screaming red flag and leads me to think there'll be plenty of other errors in the program. If your friend really wants to make a go of this, he needs to sit down with someone who really knows music and let them pick through it-- an error like that is an absolute dealbreaker which instantly made me say "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about."

I'm sorry to be harsh, but there's tons of crap instructional material available for both free and $ on the net. Your friend will need to correct this in order to rise above the muck.

I sincerely wish him luck in his efforts.

No worries, I understand completely. This is why I brought it to the forum, there are a lot of knowledgeable people here, if anybody could provide some usable feedback this forum is the place. I know he struggled with # vs b issue, mainly because of the need to simplify the root for beginners. In other words, an F# chord is usually referred to as an F# not a Gb, at least for most people IMO and he thought it would be confusing to have #'s in certain areas and b's in others. I guess it was a choice between the correct root chord name, and b 3rds and so on. I will bring this issue to his attention and see what he can do. He is an amazing player and is extremely knowledgeable, I think maybe he just made an error in judgment for the sake of intuitiveness.

I also think he needs to post a vid of how to use the dang thing. The slider is basically a transparency with all the roots, 3rds, and 5ths colorcoded, and the different shapes, i.e. "G shape", "A shape" delineated. You slide the transparency up and down the depending on key, and it shows you that chord up and down the fret. To make a minor you simply take the dry erase marker and circle the b3rd up and down the slider and there you have the minor chord all over the fretboard.

Like I said, I appreciate the feedback, and understand where youre coming from, so no need to apologize. We all feel passionately for music and guitars, which is what makes this site so damn good.
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Old August 29th, 2010, 11:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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'Oversimplifying' to the point of being wrong (D# for the m3 of Cm), only hurts students.
Eventually they'll have to learn it correctly. Which will will now take twice as long as they will first have to un-learn the wrong way.

You don't neglect 2+3=5 in beginning math just because using both even and odd numbers would be confusing.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 10:21 AM   #18 (permalink)
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1. I think the gray areas are supposed to indicate diatonic chords. No one ever in the history of music, I would be, ever calls these "strong associations."

2. The use of (m) and (M) are confusing. After looking at this for a few minutes, I now think I understand why some minor chords are followed by (m) and others are not; ditto with major chords and (M). A listing of chords in which some are (m) and (M) has never, in the history of music, been used before. This will screw up anyone who tries to learn from this.

3. The vii diminished triad needs to have a small o as a superscript. It is also inconsistent to not use (m) and (M) on diatonic chords, but to use (dim) for this chord.

4. What is going on with the iii and III chords? iii is indicated to be minor due to the lowercase Roman numeral, yet the letter name does not show an m. And of course, not only is the iii chord of C major an E minor chords, the chord shown is notated iii on the left, major in the middle column, and minor on the right. And why on earth is this called G when the iii chord is Em?

5. Then there is III(M) for Em, which are inconsistent.

This is a bad product for the primary reason that it will harm the student. It is not just confusing, some of the facts are wrong.

The only option, in my view, is to take this webpage down before it harms any more beginning musicians.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 10:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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oops, double post
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Old September 1st, 2010, 10:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If you're looking to be "taught", pick up Ted Greene's Chord Chemistry.
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