Understanding song endings (i.e. How to End a Song) - Help?

[rodeo_joel]

This feels kinda like a rookie question, but i like having clarity.

In an attempt to train myself to listen better, whenever i listen to music i make myself listen to the rhythmic structure of songs (the verses, solo's, etc.), counting the measures. I guess i'm just trying to analyze (probably over-analyzing...) song structures for my own understanding.

anyways, my question comes from this: whenever i listen to songs i've noticed its a common thing for them to end songs in an almost "asymmetrical" way. what i mean is, when they end a song they don't end like this (forgive my hard to understand imagery):

1-2-3-4-end (i.e. one full measure, then end)

i've found they usually end like this:

1-2-3-4-1-2-end (i.e. one full measure, a half measure and end)

is this just a common occurrence in music? is there a resource site that explains jamming etiquette/customs for unfamiliar people such as myself?

if i may use an example, in Alan Jackson's "Mercury Blues" - the structure of the outro somewhat perplexes me. I understand that it's somewhat of a jam over the initial progression of the verses and solos of the song, and then they tag the ending at the minor chord, but the ending is somewhat abrupt. This is hard to explain, but if anybody understands i'd greatly appreciate some insight.

also - is there a term given for that particular ending of a song in general, when all the musicians sort of just give er' flat out and end together? i've heard some people call it "trash-canning", but is that the actual name for it?

Thanks,
Joel

[MondoGuitar]

There are a handful of cadences you hear a lot -- usually fairly simple stuff in radio songs, i.e. a V pulling to a I or similar.

Mercury Blues has one of the more obvious endings of the type, i.e. you hear the chorus cycle building up really clearly to the end phrase then you just drag that last chord until the rest of the band stops. Ha. :)

Allow me to ask a stupid question, are you listening to an MP3 with the end chopped off?

[rodeo_joel]

Originally Posted by MondoGuitar

There are a handful of cadences you hear a lot -- usually fairly simple stuff in radio songs, i.e. a V pulling to a I or similar.

Mercury Blues has one of the more obvious endings of the type, i.e. you hear the chorus cycle building up really clearly to the end phrase then you just drag that last chord until the rest of the band stops. Ha. :)

Allow me to ask a stupid question, are you listening to an MP3 with the end chopped off?

no, it's the actual track off the CD. I think what i'm asking is sort of hard to explain. It's not so much the cadence i'm confused about, it's the actual structuring of the measures. I'm not quite sure how to word it, haha.

[beep.click]

When I started writing songs with my band (30 years or so ago), we spent a lot of time discussing endings. For awhile, we thought it was "cheating" to just STOP, so we would work at developing a specific ending. Sometimes the ending was derived from another part of the song; other times, it was a new little part that you only heard at the end.

Over time, we seem to have stopped agonizing so much. We play the song, and the ending basically takes care of itself. We also don't worry if we're ending the song the exact same way every time we play it.

Having played together a long time, we've become a little telepathic -- we can usually tell if we're all going to "stop on a dime."

[MondoGuitar]

it's the actual structuring of the measures. I'm not quite sure how to word it, haha.

OK, I think I understand now. It sounds like an issue of how literal you learn these. Try this. Turn your brain completely off and just feel it. No count, no cue -- just straight gut. Humor me and give it a shot. :)

[Leon Grizzard]

Lots of musical phrases end on the the 3 in 4/4 time. 1 and 3 are the accented beats, and so most musical phrases end on one of those beats. Then you have either 1 or 3 beats for the pickup into the next phrase. Row row row your boat's verse ends on 3.

[ddewerd]

A standard way of ending a country tune is to bounce from the I to the V and back to the I

Like if a song is in C, and the last chord is a C, it might be this for the last 2 measures

C C C C | C G C
1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 -->ring

Another popular thing (more with country than blues) is to "tag" (repeat) the last line of the verse or chorus as the song ending.

Many blues things do some kind of a turn around/walk up/down.

Like in A, here's a couple:

e ------------------------------
B ------------------------------
G ------------------------------
D --------------------5-6-7-----
A ------4-4-5-5-6-6-7-----------
E --5-5-------------------------

e ------------------------------------
B ------------------------------------
G --------------------0-1-2-----------
D --7-7-5-5-4-4-3-3-2-----------------
A ------------------------------------
E ------------------------------------


e -----------------------13---12------
B -----------------------13---12------
G -----------------------13---12------
D --7-7-5-5-4-4-3-3-2----12---11------
A -----------------------13---12------
E --5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-----------------

There's a lot of variation, where you can mix and match the pieces (especially in blues) - like the ever so popular "after the walk up/down, strum like a madman on the final chord for about 10 seconds (30 if you're playing in a big concert hall) for the big dramatic ending"

Cheers,
Doug

[warmingtone]

I have a terrible flu...so not thinking or remembering well...will think of it later...

What i think may be throwing you is the pickup into songs and melodies. Notice that if a melody starts before 1, leads into it perhaps on beat 4 or two or whatever, the melody cadances and phrases have the same things and so too the ending...generally. This is all part of melodic design that ultimately forms the structure of songs and is rarely discussed by guitarists that often think in terms of blocks of chord harmony rather than melody.

Anyway...have a listen to where the melodies come in and stop and phrasing to see if this might be what is throwing you...meanwhile, i will try and get over the flu and perhaps remember the technical terms for these things and the basic principles...it's fairly standard stuff and important to know, but often overlooked.

[Tim Bowen]

Wasn't familair with the tune (forgive me, I sort of live under a rock when it comes to FM radio country hits over the past 20 years or so), but I did pull it up on youtbe.

If this song is felt/counted as a medium tempo 4/4, it ends on 4*.

Sometimes, even when a tune is felt/counted in "cut time" (basically a fast 4/4), some musicians still find it helpful to think in subdivisions of four. In this way of thinking, the song ends on 3*.


* Regardless of how a time signature has actually been "written" (for legitimate sheet music), individual musicians still have highly personalized ways of organizing and subdividing different grooves and tempos, not to mention counting them off. This particular tune could be counted off as 1 - 2 - 3 - 4, or 1 - 2 - 1-2-3-4... depends on who's doing the counting.

One thing that's common to any approach regarding this particular track is that the very last hit is "anticipated", which is yet another thing that can be thought of in different ways. You can think of it as the downbeat of the last measure arriving slightly early, or as the last hit arriving at the tail end of the next-to-last measure that precedes the final measure, which would likely also include a fermata (hold/sustain) symbol; in standard notation, the latter is the way that you'd see it written.


Another classic ending technique is the "ritardando" (often notated as rit. or ritard.), and a less common phrase for such is rallentando. Call it whatever, it simply means a gradual slowing of tempo. You've heard it in a gazillion different endings, it's been around for centuries.

A classic ritardando ending cadence in all sorts of music, not the least of which is country and pop, is IV - I - ii - I. It's that sort of reverent, churchy-sounding ending. Sounds "twangy" when played by steel guitar, or with bends to imply the changes on an electric guitar. Here's an example in E, sans chicken grease:

-0--0--0--0-
-5--5--5--0-
-2--4--2--1-
-2--2--2--2-
-0----------
----4--2--0-

A famous example of this sort of cadence is The Beatles' "Let it Be" (in C, I think). The cadence occurs several times throughout the tune, although the big organ interlude and slowed down ending cycle through a few more chords for good measure.


Another classic ending technique is the famous "fall apart ending". Even stadium acts use this one from time to time. Basically, there's no science to it, you just sort of let the tune end with a bunch of convicted nonsense. The only thing that distinguishes this as "design" is that the pro player knows it's coming, as opposed to "trainwreck", as utilized by the improperly rehearsed bar band... ultimately though, it probably sounds about the same either way!


Harmonically, there are lots of cool tricks to distinguish endings. End a minor tune with a major chord, or vice-versa. Mason Williams' "Classical Gas" is in A minor, but the very last chord is A major. Sort of feels like the start of a new day, metaphorically. Ears in the western hemisphere long for resolution to third intervals. If you've ever seen a fim in which the ending left you scratching your head, there's a musical equivalent. For example, while a suspended 2nd longs for resolution, a suspended 4th demands closure (for most ears) even more so.

Loads of cool ways to end tunes. As with collecting "licks" or whatnot, my suggestion would be to start building a catalog for your ears and mental files that you can call upon for your arrangements, as you hear them.

[MondoGuitar]

a suspended 4th demands closure

Traditionally it's going to resolve down to a maj/min 3rd yes, but in modal music often it will not resolve to any tonic type chord -- and some HUGE mainstream hits such as Good Riddance use the sus4 unabashedly across the verse without resolving to the three, it's all about context:

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by MondoGuitar

Traditionally it's going to resolve down to a maj/min 3rd yes, but in modal music often it will not resolve to any tonic type chord -- and some HUGE mainstream hits such as Good Riddance use the sus4 unabashedly across the verse without resolving to the three, it's all about context:

Right on, I was simply tossing it (and the descriptors) out in a general way as a device, as related to endings. I use unresolved sus stuff all the time (pop tunes, yes!), and often superimpose seconds or fourths over thirds (I love dissonance and clusters!). My first exposure to modal suspension was probably Herbie Hancock's "Maiden Voyage".

[MondoGuitar]

Well said. Maiden Voyage is a perfect example of a great song with nothing but unresolved sus chords. :)

On piano I cluster 2s and 4s against thirds but not on guitar -- do you have any audio/youtube of guitarists doing this artfully? Perhaps hearing what I'm missing will light a fire under me.

[Larry F]

I'm really interested in this. In Baroque and Classical era music, there are a few standard ways of ending, plus a lot of interesting takes on those. Beethoven is famous for not being able to end a given movement; his creative flow is kicking into high gear by that point. I had a professor who viewed this as a weakness of his music, believe it or not. I don't listen to much popular music, but when I played 25 years ago, it seemed that there were only a few ways of ending a song. For some reason, there was this stupid, stupid fad of hitting the last chord, strumming, and strumming it, then jumping up in the air and crashing down on the very last chord and sliding the chord down the neck while gradually releasing the pressure on the strings, thus muting the chord as it descended. This happened in the span of a second or less.

I have started jamming again with some local blues players. We always seem to end each song with a uniform approach. Everybody listens to everyone else to see what their next move will be. I am sure there are only a few basic parameters involved in this. Someone needs to take the time to work all these out.

[barkley]

i've found they usually end like this:

1-2-3-4-1-2-end (i.e. one full measure, a half measure and end)

I'd say that the last measure is still a full measure, just that the last few beats are silent, or rests.


Sometimes i like to have the end of songs begging for a resolve that just doesnt come. The audience can resolve it in their heads if they are listening carefully ;)