sequences/melodic patterns?

[morroben]

Someone posted a link to a guitarist's music theory site recently and I've been checking it out. There is a section on melodic patterns or sequences. How have I not heard anything about this before? Not in any of my scale books. Not in any of my finger exercise type books (which it seems that this would be perfect for).
Anyone know more about these? Clue me in!

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/patterns/

[Budda]

Oh yeah! Sequences are very useful to practice.

Here's a couple:

3rds., 4ths., 5ths., 6ths., 7ths.

Or:

Groups of 3, 4, 5 or 6

[Leon Grizzard]

Yeah. I had thought about starting a thread asking what were people's favorite, or go to patterns. Ted Greene has several pages of them in his Single Note Jazz Guitar Soloing.

[Larry F]

Sequences are very powerful in solos and other long melodic lines. Because the sequenced notes have the same rhythm and melodic contour as the original notes, the sequences sound kind of like a repetition, but a step higher or lower. I think most sequences are lower, but that may be just how I tend to use them. When I compose the kind of avant-garde modern classical music (quote, unquote) that I write, I often use all twelve pitches of the chromatic scale in very wide registers and intervals, with rhythms based on different ways of conceiving them other than as equal durations, which is the most common way of composing or playing lines. When I feel that the listener is becoming over-saturated with wide, angular lines in crazy rhythms, I sometimes sequence a melodic fragment. For example, I might play the pattern C ^ Eb v D v C# in descending semitones as: B ^ D v Db v C, Bb ^ Db v C v B, A ^ C v B v Bb, etc. Since I am not use keys or scales in my music, I organize my pitches in other ways. Intervals play a big role for me. Patterns like this let the listener relax a little and get caught up with what I have been saying.

The intervals above are conceived differently than intervals found in a key or scale. In the C major scale, for example, the notes C D E F G have the intervals whole-step, whole-step, semitone, whole-step. When I think of these diatonically, I think: step, step, step, step. By step, I mean either a whole-step or semitone depending on what the notes are in the key or scale. This leads to an interesting idea when the pentatonic scale is used.

The C minor pentatonic scale is: C Eb F G Bb. Expressed in intervals: minor third, major second, major second, minor third. Expressed in diatonic intervals: third, step, step, third. Thinking this way, I can't sequence in the minor pentatonic without using other notes. Sequencing down a whole step, I get: Bb D Eb G. The note D is a third above Bb. I chose D, a major third, over the minor third Db because D is more commonly used is a C blues.

This is not to say that sequences are not possible in the minor pentatonic (or other pentatonics, of course). If I think of the notes as steps, then a sequence down a step from the original line C Eb F G becomes Bb C Eb F. Looking at the first two notes, in the original they are C Eb, a minor third. If I play this interval a whole step lower, I get Bb Db. If I play this interval in a diatonic manner, I get Bb D. However, if my intervals in the minor pentatonic are conceived as steps, then the notes C Eb sequenced down a step become Bb C. The entire pattern, thus is Bb C Eb F.

[Leon Grizzard]

Here is an "endless scale" pattern with the G minor pentatonic:

-6-3-----3--------------------------
-----6-3---6-3----6-3------3--------
---------------5------5--3---5-3----
---------------------------------5--
------------------------------------
------------------------------------


------------------------------------
------------------------------------
-5-3-----3--------------------------
-----5-3---5-3---5-3-----3----------
---------------5-----5-3---5-3------
-------------------------------6-3--

[klasaine]

Endless subject, sequences are.

Not really for straight 'blues' per se but a great way to approach pentatonics in sequence ...
You take a 4 note scale pattern (or three) and continue the sequence up (or down) with each pattern beginning on a scale tone.

Ex; A minor penta (A C D E G):

A C D E
C Eb F G
D F G A
E G A B
G Bb C D

It weaves nicely 'in' and 'out' of the Am7 tonality.

*You can do it just shifting up positions of the neck - which allows for one fingering pattern. Or, learning 'in position' actually ends up being more economical, though initially a lot more difficult.

[Budda]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

Here is an "endless scale" pattern with the G minor pentatonic:

-6-3----I-3----I---------------------
-----6-3I---6-3I----6-3------3--------
--------I------I5------5--3---5-3----
--------I------I-------------------5--
--------I------I----------------------
--------I------I----------------------


------------------------------------
------------------------------------
-5-3-----3--------------------------
-----5-3---5-3---5-3-----3----------
---------------5-----5-3---5-3------
-------------------------------6-3--

That's what I was thinking of, when I said "Groups of 4".

The cool thing for me, is switching the timing up.

Say, follow the exact pattern you just posted, yet change the number of notes per beat.

EX:

Beat 1 = 4 Notes
Beat 2 = 3 Notes
Beat 3 = 4 Notes
Beat 4 = 3 Notes

So, 1/16 Notes alternating with Triplets (12/8).

This takes the Rhythmic Groupings and mixes them up with the Note's Physical Patterns.

* I tried to put a "BAR LINE" type of seperation between the 1st. and 2nd. Beats in you Example. Just for clarity. But, I quit after that as it was screwing up the alignment of the rest of the Example.

[warmingtone]

Here's a link to those patterns...

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/patterns/

and the thread that brought them up...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tab-tips-...eory-site.html

....

Sequences or melodic patterns are invaluable and i don't quite know why it isn't more widely promoted...every other instrument, certainly classical kinds of tuition, these things are a mainstay...and for very good reason.

I first got hooked into them really from a book...Leon White's "modern improvising : a guide to jazz scale soloing"...that I got to very early. But you can find such patterns in most instrumental tutors for other instruments. In fact, the patterns in that site seem a lot like White's even to a lot of the numbering, but really these things are universal.

...

Ok...well they are good for soloing material as mentioned above.

+ They really ingrain scales and sounds, not just in terms of one note after another, but in all the hidden intervals within it. Some of the patterns outline or express arpeggios as well, so as you are going through the sequence you are going through the scale and the harmonization of the scale...etc.

They are an incredible way of getting out of "scale running"...where you think of playing scales just up and down.

They are great for timing (practice to a beat) and for fixing something that "trips me up" a lot which is "flams". (a tiny synchronization problem between the fretting and fingering hands that Howard Roberts made me aware of and the first thing that goes when i haven't played for a while!)

You need to mix up things in different subdivisions...so you get atuned to the sound of triplets and 8ths and 16ths and can switch between. Although you don't see them so often, you can make up sequences that contain both 8ths and a triplet say as well...there are no end of patterns.

They pre-program you for tackling musical things that you will come across (unlike scale running that rarely appears in real melodies)...so when a fragment of the sequences appear or come into your head, you will be able to play them.

A great finger exercise for both hands (many involve string skipping) and so will help with technique generally...like chordal work.

Usually you will find a fragment from which you have to work out the pattern for the rest of the scale...great for having to work out how to play them, what positions that work for you for different things (that is how i got a lot more linear in my playing for instance, and out of strict "position play, or running patterns together...some of the sequences are long so you won't be able to play them in a single "box".

They are a great way to learn to read music and to be able to recognize the patterns when you see them (or in fact hear them)...so you may like to look out for piano or other tutors where these things might be written out and go from there.

You can apply these patterns to any group of notes, even arpeggios, pentatonics, etc...the sky is the limit...run patterns in harmonized thirds for instance!

There are a lot of classic patterns or sequences, you will never run out. Most of the obvious ones are on that site and you will develop favorites that are just fun to play or you like the sound of...these will become a distinctive part of your improvisation.

Oh...and...don't limit yourself to written out patterns...take a fragment of any melody you like and play the intervals in sequence from each scale step.

Another thing to watch out for is that you don't always start on the lowest note...some sequences start on a higher note and work down to a target note for instance...for a quick example...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------2------------------4--2-----------------------------
---5--3--2---------------5--3--2--------------5--3--2-------------------
--------------5--3------------------5--------------------------------------

Patterns like this make for some interesting things to do with timing as well as being able to anticipate target notes. Notice that this pattern is in groups of 5, simply running down to a scale tone from a note a fifth above (outlining the 5th) and so it is grouped in "5's". There are heaps of ways you could add a rhyth to these to fit them into a triplet or 2 or 4 kind of feel (make some notes longer than others...

you could do...

"tri-pl-et one and" mixing triplets and 8ths
"1, 2 +, 3, 4" in a straight 4's

you could do it in quintuplets of course, so each note is even, five beats to the bar!

But you could also run them together so the patterns merge across the beats if you will...say in triplets..

-------------------------|----------------------|------------------------|---
-------------------------|----------------------|------------------------|-
-------------------------|----------------------|-------------------------|
----------------------2--|---------------4--2-|---------------5--4--2--|-------
---5--3--2--------------|-5--3--2------------|--5--3--2--------------|-----
----------------5--3----|--------------5-------|-------------------------|-----

obviously a bit of a mind bender...

...

So there is a never ending amount of material there, find the more common ones and apply them to any scale or group of notes, find them in any position (and in all keys of course) and work out what works best for different sequences and for your technique...some work best along the strings instead of in the boxes and most will require more notes than a box will provide...others will need a bit of finger stretching perhaps!

Why guitar seems to not encourage this stuff, one can only speculate. Maybe an over emphasis on set patterns and boxes, note choice over rhythm and melodic invention, less systematic approach, many will find them boring (although once you get into it it can be a challenging fun exercise)...

I recall as a teen really getting into this kind of thing and had a mirror set up in my practice room so that i could monitor my technique like my own teacher...they are not an end to themselves and you need to balance things out, but opens up the whole "key centre" approach to melodic invention and all manner of things both musically and technical and really accelerates one's learning. If you can play some of these things, you can play just about anything!!!

Anyway...10-20-30 minutes of practicing a few of these to "warm up" will do wonders for all aspects of technique and inspiration.

[Tim Bowen]

Originally Posted by Budda

The cool thing for me, is switching the timing up.

That's an excellent point. In addition to varying the groupings, I think it's a good idea to try any melodic sequence with straight and swing eighths (or sixteenths), and in triplets, and over basic subdivisions of 3 and 4, for starters. Also, it's a good idea to approach sequences from the standpoint of pickup notes within an incomplete measure that precedes a new musical section within a song or piece. None of these approaches is a 'one size fits all' panacea, but the more ways that you screw with them, the more ways that your ear will tell your fingers to give it a whirl, on the fly.

Originally Posted by warmingtone

Sequences or melodic patterns are invaluable and i don't quite know why it isn't more widely promoted...every other instrument, certainly classical kinds of tuition, these things are a mainstay...and for very good reason.

I think it's because people are scared to death that it'll sound like math, and that it won't sound like Little Walter or whomever. Certainly, if one plays a sequence in its entirety without breaking it up or adding liberal doses of chicken grease, it's just so much contrived math and musical gymnastics.

The point of working sequences is that it can lead the marriage of your fingers and ears to new avenues. It simply is a way of stirring the pot and breaking out of ruts. I was obsessed with sequences for quite a while. Way too many to list here, but the fun starts when you start making up your own ways of connecting the dots.

_________________________________

Here's a fave (ascending) A mixolydian arp sequence in "groups of four":

---------------------------------------------7-
------------------------------7----5-8---5-8--
--------------4-----4-7---4-7----6-----6------
------5-----5-----5-----5-------7-------------
--4-7---4-7-----7-----------------------------
-5---------------------------------------------

[Budda]

Originally Posted by klasaine

Endless subject, sequences are.

Not really for straight 'blues' per se but a great way to approach pentatonics in sequence ...
You take a 4 note scale pattern (or three) and continue the sequence up (or down) with each pattern beginning on a scale tone.

Ex; A minor penta (A C D E G):

A C D E
C Eb F G
D F G A
E G A B
G Bb C D

It weaves nicely 'in' and 'out' of the Am7 tonality.

*You can do it just shifting up positions of the neck - which allows for one fingering pattern. Or, learning 'in position' actually ends up being more economical, though initially a lot more difficult.

Very Sweet!

As each 4 Note Group starts on a Note from the "Parent" Am Pentatonic Scale!

This is very similar to something I like to do. I call it "Target" Sequencing.

[Budda]

Okay, I Tabbed out a couple of the ideas I mentioned.

This first one is just taking a very common Groups of 4 Sequence, And mixing in a standard m3rd. to M3rd. Blues Lick.
What's cool (to me) is the way the 1 "Extra" Note added to the Sequence offsets the standard Timing. Really sets up a nice effect, IMO.

-|--5------------------5--------------|------5-8-5-8-5---5-8-5---5v--|-|------
-|----8-5----8-5---------8-5---8-5----|--6/7-----------7-------8-----|-|------
-|--------7------7-5h6-------7-----7--|------------------------------|-|------
-|------------------------------------|------------------------------|-|------
-|------------------------------------|------------------------------|-|------
-|------------------------------------|------------------------------|-|------
 ..Swing these 1/16th. Notes

Okay, this one is the Targeted Sequence idea, using 3 different Minor Pentatonic Scales. Notice how the last Note of each of the 4 Note Groups, is part of an E7 Arpeggio? And I threw the same m3rd. to M3rd. Blues Lick into the Outlined Arpeggio.

-|-------------------------------------10--|-|--------------------------------
-|--------------------------8------8/9-----|-|--------------------------------
-|-----------------9------7----5-7---------|-|--------------------------------
-|--------9------7----5-7------------------|-|--------------------------------
-|------7----5-8---------------------------|-|--------------------------------
-|--5-8------------------------------------|-|--------------------------------
 ..Am Pent..Dm Pent..Em Pent...Am Pent. All Outlining E7.

[Ward]

I love that site. That will make practicing scales a lot more fun. I see a great deal of jazz and western swing licks coming from that. Does anyone know of a similar source for sequences for Pentatonic Scales?

[Budda]

Just Bumping this Thread, as it it a very cool one. And I thought there might be some more mileage in here..........

[BigDaddyLH]

We interrupt all these pentatonics for a diminished scale pattern:

-|-----------------------------3---6-4|
-|-------------------------5-3---6----|
-|-----------------3---6-4------------|
-|---------2---5-3---6----------------|
-|-----4-2---5------------------------|
-|-6-4--------------------------------|

The pattern is very simple: down a major second, up a fourth; repeat.