Western Swing Arpeggios

[bluestrat78]

Another western swing question!
What kind of arpeggios are typically used in old western swing/country jazz? I would guess just from listening that dominant 7 arpeggios are used. But what else? Thanks!



Kyle

[Ridge runner]

Hey Kyle great thread,something I've myself been wondering a bit too,when I listen to the old stuff..right off the top of my head I would say Major 6s and Major 9s and perhaps diminished chords.but would love to hear from folks who are really in the know on the subject.
There's a lot of jazz licks that play off of the major 9 chord that Django would use.I would think that it would also apply to Western swing as well.

[Chris S.]

Originally Posted by bluestrat78

What kind of arpeggios are typically used in old western swing/country jazz?

Major, minor, dominant and diminished. Depends entirely on the chord and its function, i.e., how the chord is being used. Majors could include the 6th and the 9th, minors could include the 6th, 9th and 11th, and dominants could include any of the "inside" colors: 9th, 11th, or 13th. Hope it helps, CS

[BuddyLee]

I think there is a good reason Steels are tuned to C6 for Swing.

I have no clue about music theory however.

[jazztele]

Chris is right.

when you improvise from an arpeggio base, at it's most basic, you use the kind of arpeggio that fits with the chord of the moment--i.e, if it's a C major chord you're going to use a C major arpeggio of some kind (C6, Cmaj7, Cmaj9, etc.)

[BigDaddyLH]

Looking at it from other perspective, what sort of arpeggio would be "too jazzy"? "Son, this is Western Swing, not Bebop..."

[Andy R]

The basic thing to remember is that swing harmony is based on a 6th chord, as opposed to typical diatonic harmony where the "I" is a major seventh chord. I would be very careful of ever using a Major 7th in western swing. As far as "too jazzy", that would be chords like 7(b9) , 7(#9), all that be-boppy stuff. However- I play Western Swing a lot and do use a lot of that stuff.

[wangdangdoodle]

A good way to go about this would be to take the 3 basic types of arpeggios: Major, Minor and Dominant and within each one target the "outside" notes, 6ths, 9ths, 13ths, etc. I'd guess I'd go for the more diatonic notes in swing than I would bebop with the exception of minor 3rd's and flat 5's (used as passing notes against a maj/dom chord) used frequently by guys like Jimmie Rivers. Adding chromatic's will help fill in some of the gaps also.

[Leon Grizzard]

Originally Posted by Andy R

The basic thing to remember is that swing harmony is based on a 6th chord, as opposed to typical diatonic harmony where the "I" is a major seventh chord. I would be very careful of ever using a Major 7th in western swing. As far as "too jazzy", that would be chords like 7(b9) , 7(#9), all that be-boppy stuff. However- I play Western Swing a lot and do use a lot of that stuff.

Do you actually play a full measure or two of C6 like x3221x with alternating bass? I like the 6th in the upper range when playing rhythm, but not in the midrange, except in passing or as a final chord.

[Andy R]

Actually, I like 6's better lower in the chord. The "home" WS (or any swing) chord would be a G6 voiced like this-6th string 3rd fret , 5th string muted, 4th string 2nd fret, 3rd string 4th fret, 2nd string 3rd fret, and stay off the 1st string- if you're playing rhythm you shouldn't be in that range! That puts the 6th low in the voicing for a denser sound that doesn't hit you in the face with the sunny, happy 6th sound!

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by Andy R

Actually, I like 6's better lower in the chord. The "home" WS (or any swing) chord would be a G6 voiced like this-6th string 3rd fret , 5th string muted, 4th string 2nd fret, 3rd string 4th fret, 2nd string 3rd fret, and stay off the 1st string- if you're playing rhythm you shouldn't be in that range! That puts the 6th low in the voicing for a denser sound that doesn't hit you in the face with the sunny, happy 6th sound!

More briefly, that G6 chord is 3x243x. If there's a bass player you can even leave off the root: xx243x. My take on 6's is that I like the 5 and 6 to be adjacent for more "crunch":

3524xx or x524xx (w/o root)
7x575x (third as bass note)
xx975x (no root)

[Leon Grizzard]

Originally Posted by Andy R

That puts the 6th low in the voicing for a denser sound that doesn't hit you in the face with the sunny, happy 6th sound!

It's been described as "deplorable blandness." Maybe I need to try 'em a little more with an open mind.

[BigDaddyLH]

Would a G6/9 still be in the pocket of Western Swing?

[bluestrat78]

Does anybody have any cool dominant 7 arpeggio licks/runs they'd like to share?

[BigDaddyLH]

This has a "diminished" scale feel. Play as a stream of eight notes:

(G7:)
D E F A
F G Ab C
Ab Bb Cb Eb
B C# D F#
(Cmaj:)
G E D C

Coltrane in a cowboy hat?

[Leon Grizzard]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

This has a "diminished" scale feel. Play as a stream of eight notes:

(G7:)
D E F A
F G Ab C
Ab Bb Cb Eb
B C# D F#
(Cmaj:)
G E D C

Coltrane in a cowboy hat?

Like so?:

--------------------------------------------------
-----------------------4-------7-8-5--------------
---------------5-----4---4-6-7-------7-5----------
-------7---5-6---6-8------------------------------
-5-7-8---8----------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

This has a "diminished" scale feel. Play as a stream of eight notes:

(G7:)
D E F A
F G Ab C
Ab Bb Cb Eb
B C# D F#
(Cmaj:)
G E D C

Coltrane in a cowboy hat?

Nice!
But I'd be careful of how and where you play that lick on a WS gig - lol!
A little on the advanced side.

[Mickey]

Originally Posted by Andy R

The basic thing to remember is that swing harmony is based on a 6th chord, as opposed to typical diatonic harmony where the "I" is a major seventh chord.

Not sure I understand. Does this mean that in swing, 6th chords replace maj7th chords (I and IV) and everything else is harmonized according to typical diatonic harmony?

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

Like so?:

--------------------------------------------------
-----------------------4-------7-8-5--------------
---------------5-----4---4-6-7-------7-5----------
-------7---5-6---6-8------------------------------
-5-7-8---8----------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------

That looks right.

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by klasaine

Nice!
But I'd be careful of how and where you play that lick on a WS gig - lol!
A little on the advanced side.

Maybe as a stream of sixteenth notes Anything sounds less outside if you keep it moving. But the main thing is that the accented notes over G7 are: D ... F ... Ab ... B -- a nice diminished 7th resolving right to C. Think of it as a turnaround lick.

[Leon Grizzard]

One of the most famous arpeggios in Western Swing can be heard here at 1:35, in Bob Wills Special. (Two of the choruses in the this tune have become standard parts of the Western Swing version of Milk Cow Blues: the steel guitar volume control chorus at 00:20, and the twin guitar chorus at 1:23. The arpeggio lick comes during that chorus.) It is just 1, 3, 5, 6, b7 on the IV chord, D:

-------------------
-------------------
-------4-5---------
---4-7-------------
-5-----------------
-------------------

Harmonized, this:

-------------------
-------------------
-----5-7-9---------
-4-7-7-9-10--------
-5-9---------------
-------------------

Also, on the last chorus, the guitar plays 3, 5, 6, b7 arpeggios behind the fiddle, like so on the I chord, A:

------------
------------
------------
---2-4-5----
-4----------
------------

You gotta love Bob Wills' phrasing on that chorus.

[bluestrat78]

Keep em' comin'! lol. I'll try to post some licks too. Only fair, right? lol.