Question about scale harmonizing

[DougF]

I know how to harmonize a scale, such as C major scale would be followed Dm,Em, F,G etc. I don't understand how this theory is applied though. If I have a simple I IV V in C where and when would it sound good to slip in the Em or the Am or any of the other minor chords/arpeggios built off of the C scale?

[Budda]

One thing you might want to do, is to practice some common chord progressions. Just work with them, trying them out with different rhythms and techniques. Each practice session, just take a progression, and try to play it in all 12 Keys. Just get more familiar with how certain groups of chords sound and work together.


If you're unfamiliar with the Roman Numerals, they represent the Position of the Chords as they would appear in a Harmonized Scale. What I often call the Chord Cycle of the Major Scale Pattern.

So, in the Key of C:

I = C ii = Dm iii = Em IV = F V = G vi = Am vii = Bdim


Here's some Progressions to try:


I IV I V

I IV V IV

V IV I I

I V vi IV

I vi IV V

I vi ii V

iii vi ii V

i iv i V7

bVI7 V7 i i



I find this type of thing a very useful tool for the toolbox.

[warmingtone]

It's tricky to know from your post quite what to suggest...

One important aspect is to understand how a chord progression relates to a key and functions. For song writing or working with existing progressions.

First, I take it you understand that all the chords in a "key" are built by adding the key's scale tones in thirds from the root or naming note of that chord. So, every second scale tone in the scale from any note in it creates a chord, the first three the basic "triad" (1st, 3rd, 5th) and adding more thirds derived from the scale all the "diatonic" (not chromatic or altered) extensions.

If you are referring to soloing strategies...there are a range of ways this knowledge can be used. It's tricky to know what strategies you approach a I IV V with now, but for instance (I hope this idea doesn't seem to "advanced")...

C major scale...

C - D - E - F -G - A - B
C,E,G major triad
(C,E,G) + B = major 7th
(C,E,G) + B + D = major 7/9
(C,E,G) + B + D + F = major 7/9/11
(C,E,G) + B + D + F + A = maj7/9/11/13
So creating all the diatonic extensions and a chord effectively made of all the notes within the C major scale (stacked in thirds)

So...if you think about it, all the chord family triads are also in this chord already "stacked in thirds". Lets look at an easy one, hopefully your eyes haven't glazed over yet...

Lets look at the iii chord in the C major family of chords = Em

Cmaj 7 = C,E,G,B
Em..............E,G,B

Cmaj 7/9 = C,E,G,B,D
Em7...............E,G,B,D

ok...so if you were to play melodic stuff from an Em7 arpeggio, you would be playing all the notes that make up the sound of a Cmaj7/9 chord except the root.

This might inspire a more interesting line...a more extreme approach would be to use even higher extensions...for the exercise...

(C,E,G) + B + D + F + A = maj7/9/11/13

Ok...take the upper extensions only...D,F,A makes a Dmin triad or the ii chord in the key, tricky to use over a C chord but certainly "doable" in a jazzy kind of way.

If you are new to this kind of thing, the major 7th sound is not as popular as it once was, in blues and a lot of country we are used to hearing the b7 (Bb in C) and in a lot of contemporary "pop" it tends to be left out giving more favor to the add2 or 9th sounds.

...

Possibly not the kind of answer you might have been hoping for though.

A more "practical" use is to use this harmonization knowledge and harmonize your lines in say thirds or 6ths, very common sounds. If you play something like this, you will probably be able to visualize the chords in the "family" of C major...

------------------------------------------------------------
---5--6--8--10--12--13--15--17----------------------
---5--7--9--10--12--14--16--17----------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

or backwards in 6ths...

------------------------------------------------------------
---13--12--10--8--6--5--3--1-------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
---14--12--10--9--7--5--3--2-------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

Of course these "daiads" (two note "chords") need to be learned on different strings and such. They work well as a harmonized line or in "sequence"...you will know doubt recognize a lot of this kind of thing...

------------------------------------------------------------
------13----12----10---8----6----5-----3-----1-------
------------------------------------------------------------
---14---12----10----9----7-----5-----3----2-----------
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

....

There are so many aspects in which knowing the harmonized scales can help.

I guess the main thing that it is useful for is to be able to understand chord progressions and the way they work together. A typical chord progression in a key is likely to only contain chords derived from it, in other words 7 chords. If you play a lot of I-IV-V progressions, you are probably able to recognize them, the chord from the 7th degree is fairly uncommon, so there are only three "other chords" in a standard progression to choose from, in time you will be able to recognize those too "by ear".

There is a fair amount that could be said, whole books of course, but there is a bunch of "functional harmony" that is useful to know in order to work out where to apply things. A lot of it is "intuitively known" from playing and listening or can be gained from applying "theory"...the way chords "progress" from one to another for instance.

...

One way of applying that kind of thing as a soloing strategy is to use a kind of substitution approach. For instance, for the V chord you might substitute the ii chord (Dm) notes...this would give you D,F,A or the 5th, 7th and 9th of the V chord...so there is a place you might apply arpeggios profitably.

Similar things exist for all chords, an Am for the F chord will give you a Major7 sound to the IV chord, as discussed earlier, an Em will create a similar sound, Em7 will add the 9th as well to the I chord.

These are "diatonic" ideas, chords that derive from the "key", a perhaps "jazz" approach might introduce more elaborate "chromatic" substitutions such as Db7 for a G7 or V chord...but that's a whole other area yet!

It's important to realize that the Major Scale is used as a kind of "ruler" to measure things, but for many musics this is not "primary". So, there are a few different kinds of minor keys besides the "natural minor" and in some music the I7 is dominant, so the "key" notes tend to be derived from the "mixolydian mode" (eg C major but with a b7 or Bb instead of B). Some blues and blues influenced music (rock, etc) may well mix the major and minor families and progressions, much as the minor pentatonic scale can be effectively used on a "major" progression.

Depending on the type of music you play and the sounds you want to make, you may need to extend things beyond harmonizing the major scale alone.

[Joe-Bob]

Originally Posted by DougF

I know how to harmonize a scale, such as C major scale would be followed Dm,Em, F,G etc. I don't understand how this theory is applied though. If I have a simple I IV V in C where and when would it sound good to slip in the Em or the Am or any of the other minor chords/arpeggios built off of the C scale?

It's almost too broad of a question. There are entire college classes on the topic.

Make sure you know how to spell your chords in every key without having to really think about it: G chord -- GBD, G minor chord -- GBbD, G7 chord -- GBDF, etc.

Then, every note has a ton of chord posibitities:

C
= 1 in a C chord
= 3 in an Am chord
= 5 in an F chord
= 7 in a Dm7 chord
= 1 in a Cm chord
= 3 in an Ab chord
= 5 in an Fm chord
= 7 in a D7 chord
= 1 in a C diminished chord
= 3 in an A# diminished chord
= 5 in an F# half-diminished chord
= 7 in a D# diminished 7 chord
= b9 in B7b9 chord
Etc., etc., etc...



Enjoy

[strat a various]

These chords are the Major Diatonic Chord Scale: C Maj7, D min7, E min7, F Maj7, G7, A min7, B half-diminished. There are also Minor Diatonic Chord scales. Don't fall into the trap of trying to force everything into your new square hole. Melodies are round pegs, so to speak, and in tunes, we harmonize chords that flow from the melody. There are so many exceptions to the predicted chords, it's useless to try to use the chord scale as a guide for anything. It's basically like playing four scales at once, and the harmonies created are instructive, not creative.