Play by ear?

[Squier Buyer]

I've been playing for over 40 years. Other than recognizing the majors and some minors and sevenths every thing else is Greek to me, however I can figure out the basics of just about any song if I put my mind to in about 15 minutes. Sometimes I can even tell you the key without picking up my guitar and if I don't know the chord I move my fingers around trial and error till I find it. I'm not saying I have perfect pitch by no means, I just don't know any other way and it makes me lazy regarding reading and theory. I started lessons at 14 playing Red River Valley reading one note at a time and when the teacher left the room I started playing Stairway to Heaven. I know my friends who can only read get a little jealous at times. Anyone else?

[Al Watsky]

Sounds like you have some talent for music.
Many people play by ear.
Especially people who are primarily interested in pop music.
I started the way you did.
I think most musicians do.
Some choose to delve a bit deeper, mainly from curiosity, in my case.
A free lance professional musician finds reading and theory to be very handy.
Its often the difference in getting a job or not. A practical necessity.
For an amateur playing folk and pop, reading isn't very important.
Many entertainers and singers don't read music proficiently.
Not reading or knowing theory does not imply a lack of talent.
Just a lack of rigor and preparation. There is even ear training which in it self requires note reading.
Music is a science.
You can turn on a light bulb with out knowing how to build a power plant.

[Budda]

I started with the "5th. Fret Pentatonic Box" and some Power Chords. I'd move them everywhere, depending on the Tune.
My Ears were horrible. No "Natural" abilities. But, they got better.

However, once I learned some basic Diatonic Theory and Chord Construction, I was kinda pissed that it had taken me so long to. It would have shaved (no exaggeration) 6 or 7 years off of my learning curve! D'oh!

And it helps me to continue progressing, to this day.

And the sad part is that once you find a great Instructor, it only takes a couple of Months to learn so much! It's really rather simple, actually. Mostly it was a matter of learning the Terminology. After that, the way it all fit together was basic.

Just do it!

Here's a great tool:

http://guitar411.com/p_diatonic.html

[klasaine]

Are you asking a question? do you think you might be missing something only playing by ear?
Ear, notes on a page - whatever gets you through.
One method is good, both is better - ?

[emu!]

Don't we all play by ear to some extent? I mean, try playing with a full band with cotton stuffed in your ears so you can't hear ANYTHING...record it...then listen to the recording w/o the cotton in your ears. It doesn't sound the same. Is this what you mean by "playing by ear".

[Squier Buyer]

Are you asking a question? do you think you might be missing something only playing by ear?
Ear, notes on a page - whatever gets you through.
One method is good, both is better - ?

Don't we all play by ear to some extent? I mean, try playing with a full band with cotton stuffed in your ears so you can't hear ANYTHING...record it...then listen to the recording w/o the cotton in your ears. It doesn't sound the same. Is this what you mean by "playing by ear".

Yes, I am asking and no that's not what I mean by playing by ear. Sorry guys if I wasn't clear. I mean I learn songs by ear without reading, chord sites or even tabs. I listen to the song and figure it out by listening to it only and trial and error and really have no desire for any of the above. Even the chords I find by listening to them individually and moving my fingers around till I match the sound, I have no idea what the name of the chord is at all. I've been doing this since I was a child, my 80 year old father and my children do the same. I'm certainly not trying to bragg, just trying to find out if anybody else does this or am I a freak? It makes me indifferent to learning any other way cause it works for me 100 percent of the time. I'm not talking blazing leads just the chords. I'm not much of a lead player. I also do the same with bass, sometimes on the fly if I know the song. Just honestly curious if anyone does the same....."question"?

[MikeS29]

I, too, played strictly "by ear" without reading or understanding music. I understood what chords went together, but invented my own terminology to communicate the ideas to my brother, who similarly, had no real formal musical training.

I knew no scales, but could figure out the relative minors to the major chords.

I went from age 11 to about age 40 without knowing the names of all the strings.

I didn't know what I was missing, but always thought I was a pretty good guitarist.

Wow. Now I know that I didn't know anything. Having a good enough ear to recognize the next chord change is not enough.

I only recently learned minor and major pentatonic scales and I felt like Hellen Keller discovering the ability to spell and communicate. What a difference! I realize that I was illiterate, and my musical world has changed.

[blue metalflake]

I've basically learnt everything "by ear". I can't understand tab, don't read music, but have picked up enough music theory to get by on the simple stuff.

That said, when I see posts about pentatonic, and minor pentatonic (maybe not even the right words) it means absolutely zilch, and might as well be a foregn language.

Am I losing out by not understanding all this? Probably, but it hasn't stopped me enjoying every minute of playing, and getting plenty of work.

[MikeS29]

I don't mean to say the Pentatonic scales are all that and a bag of chips, and I'm sure the more advanced guitarists are probably sick of hearing about it, but to me what it meant was that it revealed to me just how much more there is to learn that I had no idea about!

[Squier Buyer]

Originally Posted by blue metalflake

I've basically learnt everything "by ear". I can't understand tab, don't read music, but have picked up enough music theory to get by on the simple stuff.

That said, when I see posts about pentatonic, and minor pentatonic (maybe not even the right worlds) it means absolutely zilch, and might as well be a foregn language.

Am I losing out by not understanding all this? Probably, but it hasn't stopped me enjoying every minute of playing, and getting plenty of work.

Thank you blue metalflake, that's exactly my point. It's all Greek to me, heck I didn't even here that pentatitanic [sic] word before joining here but I can tell you for sure if someone is playing those scales in a tune I can learn to copy it but have no idea what it is.

[Squier Buyer]

Son House, Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Jimmy Reed, Howlin' Wolf. I'll bet they all had that theory stuff down pat......

[Goluphi]

I am the exact opposite way - I can't learn anything without understanding all the musical mechanics behind it. I can figure songs out by playing with them, but it's an arduous process.

Whatever works for you is what works. As long as it's not limiting your playing, who cares how you think about music?

[MikeS29]

The two are not mutually exclusive. You won't lose your ability to play by ear and "feel" the music just by learning theory. I used to be quite proud (and rightfully so) of my ability to play without knowing theory or correct terminology. But it is limiting, and makes it difficult for other musicians to communicate their musical ideas to you.

Performed music predates written music. Written music merely documents and details real music. But being able to understand theory and relationships is like transistioning from an oral tradition of story telling to novelists and technical manuals. One naturally predates the other, but oral traditions can only be so complex. Same with musical ideas. Once I accepted there was more to know, I realized just how much. And now I can share musical ideas with others in remote locations!

[sax4blues]

I only became able to "play by ear" after I learned some basic chords and scales. I started playing saxophone in high school and I really struggled to pick out even the most basic tune. Then I learned all my scales and what a world it opened up to me. With those reference points I could see down the road and play with confidence and emotion instead of guessing.

When I started guitar several years ago it was the same thing. Once I got chords and scales down I could listen to a song and have a good idea where to start.

Maybe the people who are self learners through playing be ear have an exceptional ability to catalog and recall notes/sounds of chords and scales as they play them, without the formal training that I needed.

[Squier Buyer]

Originally Posted by MikeS29

The two are not mutually exclusive. You won't lose your ability to play by ear and "feel" the music just by learning theory. I used to be quite proud (and rightfully so) of my ability to play without knowing theory or correct terminology. But it is limiting, and makes it difficult for other musicians to communicate their musical ideas to you.

Performed music predates written music. Written music merely documents and details real music. But being able to understand theory and relationships is like transistioning from an oral tradition of story telling to novelists and technical manuals. One naturally predates the other, but oral traditions can only be so complex. Same with musical ideas. Once I accepted there was more to know, I realized just how much. And now I can share musical ideas with others in remote locations!

Very good points, explanation and analogy MikeS29. I guess at this point I am wondering if I am missing out on something and would it make me a better overall player. I'm sure it would. I guess it has just made me lazy. I do find it puzzling that my dad and my children learn by ear as well. I'm really wondering if there is a family aptitude for music. I have many extended family musicians who play many different instruments. My seventeen year old daughter listens to a Taylor Swift tune, picks up her guitar and the next thing I know she is playing it, no music, chords or tabs and like me can usually tell me what certain chords are without even picking up the guitar. As great as this is I realize it can be very limiting as far as progressing goes. Thanks all for your respected opinions.

[RCinMempho]

The hardest part of learning to play by ear is building up the callouses.

[BigDaddyLH]

Originally Posted by RCinMempho

The hardest part of learning to play by ear is building up the callouses.

Who used to do the joke "I used to play by ear but know I play by rear! (Sits on piano keyboard)"

[Dizi]

I've always played by ear, self taught, etc. But lately I've been getting into more and more video lessons, and have learned some things that made me sit back and realise...I would have never gotten that by ear on my own. I thought I had a sense of freedom to learn new stuff by ear, but looking back now I think I was limiting myself.

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by Squier Buyer

Son House, Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, Jimmy Reed, Howlin' Wolf. I'll bet they all had that theory stuff down pat......

Actually, Howlin' Wolf took theory classs at community college - no lie. B.B. studies theory via a specific method (Larry F can tell you about it). Most of our heroes aren't nearly as ignorant as we'd like to imagine them to be.

This is the 'theory, tips and tab' section so that's kinda what we do here .
Most of us play by ear just fine. Most of us probably started playing that way. Most of us also probably got/get better with a little study(?). Maybe by learning a little bit of how music is made you can do more than solely copy other stuff - just a thought. That's why I got into it anyway. YMMV.

[brewwagon]

" i must be hearing things "

theory makes it rational


notes from wikipedia

A listener's perception of grouping structure (motives, phrases, sections, etc.)
Rhythm and meter (perception and production)
Key inference
Expectation (including melodic expectation).
Musical similarity
Emotional, affective, or arousal response
Expressive, musical performance
Some aspects of cognitive music theory describe how sound is perceived by a listener. While the study of human interpretations of sound is called psychoacoustics, the cognitive aspects of how listeners interpret sounds as musical events is commonly known as music cognition


bw

[Squier Buyer]

This is the 'theory, tips and tab' section so that's kinda what we do here .
Most of us play by ear just fine. Most of us probably started playing that way. Most of us also probably got/get better with a little study(?). Maybe by learning a little bit of how music is made you can do more than solely copy other stuff - just a thought. That's why I got into it anyway. YMMV.

Good advice. I do have several dozen original songs that I have programmed the drums, played two guitar tracks,one bass track and added some basic principles of sound engineering, however we all know what people want in bars. I know it would make me better. Thanks again.

[MikeS29]

I took a few lessons (in my mid 40s) that I didn't think would yield anything much, but that is what has reshaped my outlook on music. If for no other reason than to reinvigorate your playing, learn some scales and lay them over what you already know.

For me, the switch was flipped, and I feel like a beginner after 30+ years of experience of playing. And it is exciting. I am no longer mystified by people who can tear it up in any situation. I now know what they are doing (even when I cannot yet do it). I can finally understand that they are just fluent in a language I was only vaguely familiar with. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by delving into it.

OK, I'm out of cliches :-)

[klasaine]

Originally Posted by Squier Buyer

Good advice. I do have several dozen original songs that I have programmed the drums, played two guitar tracks,one bass track and added some basic principles of sound engineering, however we all know what people want in bars. I know it would make me better. Thanks again.

So lets say that one day you're sick of playing 'Sweet Home Alabama' every freakin' saturday night of your life ... and that maybe you'd actually like to play some of your own tunes - ? You could give everyone in the band a CD or send mp3's and have them learn it. Perfectly fine way to do it. Or, maybe you'd just like to work it out one day at a rehearsal? Being able to communicate it especially if you can sketch out a rough chord chart with the correct form saves HOURS of work (sometimes days of work). If you can write out clean and clear charts (lead sheets) you can give them to a band you've never played with and, as long as your confident and a good leader, they'll probably be able to play it on a gig with no rehearsal. Just being able to communicate your ideas w/o having to play it for somebody first is a really useful skill.

*It also sort of depends on exactly what you're learning by ear.
Is it all Hank Williams and Stones songs .. or are we talkin' Yes, Steely Dan, Vivaldi and Django solos? All that I mentioned is equally 'great' music - but, at least from a purely technical POV, it's not equally hard to figure out.

[Ridge runner]

I play by ear,tab,and I'm a slow reader on traditional notation..And I just found out that the one of the best way to speed read music is a technique called "intervallic reading",as opposed to just note reading..
Great players like Danny Gatton couldn't read,But he knew some theory and that helps alot!!
Don't just learn G clef either..learn to read bass clef as well so you can write out bass lines and figure out piano chords..
That's what I've been working on, that and keeping everything in time..
Couldn't imagin trying to learn something by Debussy by ear alone.
It is a big commitment but it has it's rewards.
Guys like Wes and Parker I don't think read but spent a whole lot of time doing nothing but Jamming jazz I tend think..
If you're still bent on doing it by ear..then train your ear to hear not only minor and major tones but augmented and diminished chords and scales as well..along with whole tone scales,harmonic minor,different modes ect...

[Jeff_K]

Originally Posted by Budda

http://guitar411.com/p_diatonic.html

Cool! Doug Doppler! We saw him here in Houston HOB and he was phenomenal. And a super guy, too, talked to us after the show, signed a bunch of stuff for my teenagers, absolutely a quality guy. Amazing player, and from what I've read also a great instructor. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Budda]

Glad you like the link!

I'm surprised more haven't hipped to this DVD. DD is the guy Joe Satriani turned all of his students over to, when he quit teaching. Good Exercises and Routines. Is it perfect? No, of course not! But, one of the best I've seen for actual hand's on, review.