Question for you chickin' pickers

[emu!]

Hello

When I hear the fast chicken pickin, it sounds to me like a myrid of notes played almost randomly in a chromatic sequence. It sounds like each fretting finger is used to make these chromatic runs up the neck without skipping any frets...then almost always, the runs "make a 180" and start going down the neck in a chromatic sequence.

Does anyone else hear it this way?

AND, after coming to this conclusion, I feel like there must be a secret chicken pickin fingering pattern (well, maybe not secret to anyone but me) and I think this is what it is:

Index, pointer, ring, and pinky going up chromatically on a string...then, choosing the NEXT SMALLER STRING...the chromatic sequence is reversed using pinky, ring, pointer, and index fingers going down ON THE SAME FRETS.

Is this pattern simply in my imagination, or does it exist?

thanks

[Dizi]

Why not give it a try and learn a couple licks? Lots of quick and fun chicken pickin' lessons on Youtube.

[3 Chord]

I'm no expert on c'pickin' but I think you can c'pick any thing, it's a technique more than the notes you play.

I c'pick blues scales, major pentatonic, little licks, whatever, if I can sneek in a little here and there and it fits, I cluck away.

[rangercaster]

i'm not a great chickenpicker but IMO some knowledge of open string licks, hybrid picking, banjo rolls, bluegrass patterns helps ... and pick near the bridge

[Ormond]

That might account for 4% of it!
Just go on YouTube and look at some Forrest Lee Jr., Johnny Hiland, Brent Mason, and, yea, see Doug Seven's post of his Burp Rag...it'll kinda margianalize your theory.

[johnnytronics]

No pinky ( but there are exceptions )

[Ward]

Originally Posted by emu!

Hello

When I hear the fast chicken pickin, it sounds to me like a myrid of notes played almost randomly in a chromatic sequence. It sounds like each fretting finger is used to make these chromatic runs up the neck without skipping any frets...then almost always, the runs "make a 180" and start going down the neck in a chromatic sequence.

Does anyone else hear it this way?

AND, after coming to this conclusion, I feel like there must be a secret chicken pickin fingering pattern (well, maybe not secret to anyone but me) and I think this is what it is:

Index, pointer, ring, and pinky going up chromatically on a string...then, choosing the NEXT SMALLER STRING...the chromatic sequence is reversed using pinky, ring, pointer, and index fingers going down ON THE SAME FRETS.

Is this pattern simply in my imagination, or does it exist?

thanks

I think there's a lot of confusion to what's actually going on with Chickin' Pickin style guitar. Folks always want to know why a certain lick works, i.e. what scale is he using, etc. A lot of people think theres some secret scale being used. I think it's really a combination of the melody, the major and major pentatonic scales, chord soloing, flatted thirds and flatted sevenths, and different methods of getting from one scale tone to another.

I'm not a great player by any means, and certainly not in the category of players frequently cited on this forum, but I'm decent, and more importantly, everytime I see a lick by Mason, Doug Seven, etc., I can usually explain to you why it works, even with my limited knowledge of music theory. That doesn't mean I can play it, but I do usually understand what's going on.

If you really want to learn what's behind chickin pickin, and how it works, here's the steps I think you need in terms of background knowledge in order to understand what's going on. This is how I learned, of course, ymmv.

1. Learn major scale and pentatonic scale based meoldy playing. Scales are very important. You need to be able to play melodies and understand the notes of the scale you're playing it. Rather, you need to know the number of the note your playing (i.e. 1,4,5). Listen to old Ernest Tubb records. The guitar player is always just playing the melody in solos. Then listen to the Ernest Tubb live album from 1965. Still playing the melody, just adding a little flair. You'll notice you can play a lot of the melodies using the pentatonic scale, although you may have to throw the 4 in there when it goes to the 4, and the 7th when it goes to the 5.

2. Learn chord based soloing. Play an F shaped A chord at the 5th fret on the highest 4 strings. Now note all the major scale tones around it. If you focus on playing the notes in the chord, but use the other scale tones to get yourself from chord tones to chord tone, your playing chord based soloing. Get a Chuck Berry greatest hits album, and study his solos for the master of chord based soloing.

Once you learn the above two steps, you'll start to notice the chickin pickin thing is starting to make sense, but you'll see all these flat thirds and sevenths, chromatics, bends, etc. and wonder what the hells going on. Here's what you need to learn next:

3. Different ways of getting from point A to point B. Let's say you're playing a melody where it goes from the 2 to the 3. So in the key of A, you're going from B to C#. How can you get there? Well, you can go direct, which may be fine. You can bend up to the 3 (if you then pick the 5, you've just done the most common pedal steel lick). You can do it chromatically, you can slide, etc. All those chromatic runs, bends, etc. are just a way of getting from point A to point B, when playing a melody.

4. Learn about the flat third and flat seventh. The flat third is a tension creating tone. Usually, when you pick it, you're going to immediately go up to the 3rd or down to the second. It gives a cool bluesly element, which sounds great when resolved to the 2 or 3. The flat seven works pretty much anywhere. When I see what looks like a blues scale used in country, I think of it as the major pentatonic with a flat 3rd thrown in as a passing note, and a flat seventh, which always seems to work, thrown in.

5. Learn the harmonized scale running up and down the neck. harmonized scales are important. Pay special attention to the chord tones. These are double stops. Note that you can do these chromatically, bend, slide. Note that you can use a flat seventh with the 4th and it will sound great. Work out melodies using the harmonized scale. Ray Price shuffles sound awesome when you play the melody using the harmonized scale.

6. Learn to switch over chords. You can sound fine playing the major pentatonic scale of the I chord over the whole progression. In fact, when we play "Big Ball's in Cowtown" for instance, I often find myself just playing a few stock licks in G (the I) since the song is so damn fast, and the changes are so fast. However, generally, you can add a bit to your solos by switching when the song switches chords. This is especially true when it goes to the 4 chord. Just switch to steps 1 through 4 in the scale of the chord (usually I find I like to stay with the harmonized scale of the 1 no matter the chord, although this varys).

I probably missed a step, but if you do the above, you'll understand the theory behind chickin pickin, and understand the theory behind why the stuff that Brent Mason, Johnny Hiland, etc. do works. This way when you learn their licks you'll understand the context of where it works, why to use it etc. I think if you don't know the above steps you'll have a hard time understanding what's going on when you see the tab for a Brent Mason or Doug Seven lick.

Hope this helps, Ward

[RCinMempho]

I'm not a right-hand expert, but I have been working on hybrid picking (holding a pick and using the other fingers) for a few years now. Still, most stuff I do is just alternate picking. I "grab" things a lot, but my runs are ususally alternate picking. Certain licks require "banjo roll" kind of things where you repeat set picking patterns with the pick and fingers. In general, simpler is often faster.

Maybe some of the thumbpickers will chime in. I know they alternate pick/index finger a lot.

Looking at the left hand, there is one little move that is simple and appears quite often. That is to move down 1 step (two frets) from the chord you are on. If you are soloing over an A chord, you can move down to the G chord and back to the A chord. Make an E shape A barre chord on the fifth fret. Play the B-E strings as a double-stop, slide down to the G chord, play the B-E strings again. Slide back up to the A, hit the B-G strings, slide down to the G, hit the same strings. Move to the G-D strings and do it again. Then the D-A strings...

The variations are endless but the basic down one step and back move using the chord of the minute will give you a bunch of notes to use all the different picking patterns you can dream up.

[wolfman63]

Listen to James Burton. Get some of his instruction dvd's.

[brokenjoe]

I always thought that chicken picking was a technique, and not a series of notes/scales.

Take Roy Buchanan for instance. He plays in that style using major, or minor pentatonic, major scales, and a whole bunch more.

Seems to me that it's not so much about the notes as it is about the sound, and effect.

[Jagtec]

I know several "chicken pickers" that use thumb and finger picks to get that banjo roll sound. It kind of depressed me because I just can't seem to get the hang of it.
Then I met Johnny Hiland at a local music store and found out he only uses a flat pick and only 3 fingers of his left hand, and to top it off he is legally blind !! Maybe there is hope for me !