Positions !?!?

[mijstrat72]

So this guy was telling me "positions" on the fretboard, and he fingers different string/fret (I think he started on the 3rd fret low E string and counted off 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, and then said it starts over again.

I have been playing almost 30 years, can play literally thousands of songs, been in many bands, I even have my own music studio. Yet have no comprehension for learning these things, but I want to learn. It's like my brain doesn't want me to learn these things, so...

Can anyone tell me these positions i.e. string and fret number so maybe I can begin to learn and practice

[jazztele]

positions of what, the major scale?

[Leon Grizzard]

The different major scale positions most commonly used are played with the root, or tonic, played under the 2d finger E string; 4th finger E string; second finger A string; 4th finger A string. Also: 1st finger E string and 1st finger A string, meaning three note per string patterns; at some point you shift up to keep going. Also 2d or 1st finger D string, often as part of the three note per string pattern starting on 1st finger E string.

There are variations, like do you reach up or down to get a note that does not fall within the initial four fret range.

[BigDaddyLH]

Do all these make sense to you? Nothing new?

[mijstrat72]

Those do make sense to me! I can read tab, so I'll print those off and see if I can memorize them. It's a start.

I hope to someday be able to retain some guitar theory information, instead of just bumbling through things like solos, etc.

I've always played by ear I guess, and over the years have memorized the notes on the fret board. I have a good ear for notes, probably developed out of necessity more then anything.

Whenever I jam in a band setting, I don't seem to lag behind at all, and most of the time people like to listen when I "go off" and do my solos. In fact I do lead vocals, rhythym guitar and lead in the band I'm in. Many tell me that I'm an exceptional musician, but I don't feel I can own that title since I know about the theory of music.

Many thanks!

[JayFreddy]

I started out on classical guitar, and in classical terminology, position is equal to the fret number closest to your 1st (index) finger on the fretting hand.

So a C major campfire chord is in 1st position, the D major is in 2nd position, etc.

However, in Jazz and Blues methods, I've seen a lot of books that use the term "position" interchangably with the term "form"...

For example, the Cmaj/Am pentatonic scale at the 5th fret is sometimes called "position 1", while I consider that to be 5th position. If you look at in terms of CAGED, you could say that that particular scale is based on the Gmaj/Em form chord/pentatonic.

Personally I prefer the classical scheme because it is completely unambiguous, but I also use CAGED too, and I have no problem if someone has a different way of doing it that works for them.

Point is, there is more than one correct way to skin a cat, goat, or buffalo...

There is only one Am pentatonic in 5th position. You can call it macaroni if you want, but it doesn't change the notes or fingering options.

EDIT: Took a look at that pdf that BigDaddy posted. That looks kinda' like some of the stuff they teach at Berklee. I never understood that way of thinking, the naming conventions seem kinda' random to me...

E.g.,

The "1/6 C Major" is what I would call an Ionian form in VIIIth position.
The "2/6 C Scale" is what I would call a Locrian form in VIIth position.
The "3/6 C Scale" is what I would call an Aeolian form in Vth position, sliding up to a Locrian form in VIIth position.
The "4/6 C Scale" is a straight Aeolian form in Vth position.

I know lots of guys get bent out of shape by naming a scale form after a mode, but if the lowest diatonic note in that position is the tonal center, then it is that mode... So it's an easy way to remember both the forms and the modes.

The idea that "3/6" should be a scale form with a slide, while none of the others have slides in them seems completely arbitrary to me. It has nothing to do with the 3rd or 6th of the scale, and doesn't even correspond to the 3rd or 6th strings. It's not clear where those numbers come from, other than someone had six fingerings, and that was the 3rd one he felt like showing you...

Naming the position after the fret number closest to the first finger seems less ambiguous, and labeling scale forms based on the chord shapes (CAGED) contained in them, or the mode derived from the lowest possible note in that fingering/form, makes more sense to me.

E.g., Locrian form in II position tells you the position and the form, and if the tonal center happens to be an F#, it happens to be the name of the scale too.

[warmingtone]

There is only one Am pentatonic in 5th position. You can call it macaroni if you want, but it doesn't change the notes or fingering options.

Good Call...A lot of this kind of "theory" is really is just putting names to things.

A lot of things you may have just picked up by "osmosis"...it just has seeped in through listening and playing, you may even have come up with your own approaches (perhaps working more along a string than across them "in position", for instance)

Beware that you don't let the naming or things like "positions" hold or pull you back...for instance, don't feel that you should pay "in position" if you play perfectly well with the same notes across positions.

There's not "right or wrong" it's the results that count.

That said, other kinds of "theory", chord tones, chord theory, different scale choices (modes, etc) can help you understand what you are doing and build on that or open up new areas to explore.

Bottom line though is that your "ear" is your greatest resource and don't let any "theory" get the better of it by dictating what is right and wrong...otherwise the tail starts to wag the dog!

[ddewerd]

I've been jamming a bit with a great guitar player who has done a bunch of country (recently backing Mickey Gilley's band). He knows about a jillion songs and has a real smooth moving chord/pick/lick style. He told me he started off playing jazz for many years before he picked up country.

Yet he hardly knows the chord names (but can play every one, lots of jazz style movements).

So I asked him about a particular movement/chord he was doing, and his response was "well it's the 10th". Hmm, that's not a chord, maybe it's the minor 7 note, not really sure, he started off on a another tune and I never really got to dive in on that.

Cheers,
Doug

[JayFreddy]

Another convention I've carried with me from the classical is that positions are always labelled using Roman numerals. This allows you to learn to read regular notes on the staff, but still provide fingering suggestions, without having a completely separate clef for tabulature. For example, if there is a melody in C major, with the Roman numeral V over it, this would indicate the 5th position Aeolian form.