Chord changes (beginnerish)

[Mark F]

Hi, newbie here (and relatively with the guitar)

I've been attempting to learn for around 9 months, and really only recently attempted playing open chords, however i'm having trouble in consistantly getting the changes right... Any advice would be welcome.

So your aware, I do occasionally have spells where im happy with the way i make the changes, but a more regular occurance is a fluffed change (more practise usually has the effect of making things worse). This is worst with the open G, sometimes my fingers just don't go anywhere near the correct string even (with my pinky shaking like a leaf), and with the open D (usually mute the 2 strings either side of the 3rd fret finger on 1st strum, yet without moving any finger the second strum is pretty clear)

Are there any excercises that may help? Or other things i can practise with that will help my control? (im getting quite reasonable with the Am pent). With so much info out there, its hard to know what to try, i don't want to make things worse by trying to run before i can walk...

Sorry for the long post

[Joe-Bob]

I recommend you take some lessons.

[Mark F]

Thanks for the suggestion :) i will be taking lessons at some point (hopefuly not far away), but at the mo, im not in a position to be able to pay for lessons (work is scarce, and very short term...), mainly looking for advice on things i can do and practise doing (im learning to relax more) to make me more consistant, the few times i played what i consider reasonably had a build up of about 4 hours of trying, and resting, and trying again, so i know i can do it, but i don't usually have 4 hours to play with...

Again, thanks for the advice :)

[robert1836]

My advice is to practice chord changes in slow motion (I mean really slow) and then gradually speed up. This works on the muscle memory. Also, the combination of a 4 fingered G chord, the Cadd9 chord and the D chord make a nice practice progression with the third finger planted in the 3rd fret of the B string for all three chords. This progression sounds good and is useful for playing along with many songs.

[jazztele]

i wish you lived nearby so i could watch you flub the changes and see what's really going on, but most blown changes are from a lack of three things:

finger/hand strength

synapse (muscle) memory

confidence thru accuracy

an exercise i do with beginners that builds both strength and confidence is as such: beginning with the first string, play the string open. now, fret the F note (first fret, first string) with the index finger and play that note. leaving the index finger in position, use the middle finger to play the F# at the second fret on that same string. continue with the ring finger for the G (3rd fret) and the pinky for the G# (4th fret), keeping each finger down while playing the next note (so by the time you reach the G#, all four left hand fretting fingers are held down. then reverse the process, releasing one finger at a time as the notes descend from G# to G to F# to F to the open E again.

now repeat the process on all strings. this will build tendon strength in between the fingers as well as fingertip strength.

another exercise for accuracy is to start with the index finger on the second string, first fret "C" note. play this note along with the open 1st string "E."

continue at each fret, first thru fourth fret, index thru pinky finger, sounding two strings with each "pick." this will force you to fret the string with the very tip of the finger, which is the smallest and strongest part of the finger. it is necessary to use the very tip of the finger in order to prevent muting the adjacent string, just as it is necessary to use the finger tip to prevent notes being muted in full chords. continue this exercise on the third string with the second string ringing open, the fourth string with the third ringing open, etc.

the last step is to isoate each chord change and try it repetively, 100's of times if necessary. if a song goes D, G, Bm, A, spend five minutes alone with the D to G change. take your time, breathe evenly, and make the change over and over. pay close attention to which fingers need to move and to where, and to which fingers remain stationary. economy of movement is essential--try your damndest NOT to remove the whole hand from the guitar unless necessary.

none of this is a heap 'o fun, mind you, but it is the kind of stuff you can practice while watching TV, waiting for water to boil, waiting for your wife to get out of the shower, pretending to listen to your wife, talking on the phone for a business call, etc. I hope you'll stick with it. at this point, extended practice seems to make things worse thru fatigue and frustration--but focused practice will reap rewards. good luck!

[kp8]

The usual thing is to take chords slow, ring out each note, etc. But confounding this problem is that you say practice seems to make it worse. That's an issue, since practice is supposed to make it better... so is it possible that when you practice you have fatigue which makes it seem worse at the moment but it gets better later? If your pinky is shaking it would seem that maybe you haven't built up enough strength yet?

Perhaps you should use lighter strings or tune down for a while till you get to the point where you can go chord to chord without problems?

I think you do need a teacher, even if it is for just a lesson or two. It is hard to diagnose without seeing and there exists the small possibility that what you are practicing is not real good for your hand or an effective way to practice. What jazztele has outlined seems really good, if that is not helping you might need to consult someone in person. Be sure to take breaks so you don't hurt you hand.

Best of luck

-kp8

[warmingtone]

I'm not a pro-teacher...so...but often it is good to get these things under control before getting into the expense of paying a bit of money on lessons...

One thing that may be a problem, a lot of guitars are set up badly, particularly beginners instruments. In general this indicates there may be a problem with the nut being to high. Unfortunately not an easy problem to fix or diagnose...but it may mean with open chords you are having to use too much pressure.

One tip may be to get a Capo...with a capo (you may need to re-tune after putting it on), the height of the "nut" will be the ftret behind and should be "perfect"...you may also consider tuning down a half tone, with the capo on the first fret. The result should be that with the capo on the first fret, the E string will still be "E" if you see what I mean, and the strings will be a bit more pliable and easier to fret.

...

Another tip, may be in the way you are fretting open chords. Here is a way in which to finger common chords using "guide fingers"

--||----|----|----|----
--||----|--3-|----|----
--||----|-1--|----|----
--||----|--2-|----|----
--||----|----|----|-----
--||----|----|----|-----

The above is an open A chord...a lot of songs will have E and D in this key...the numbers indicate the fingers, the !st finger is the Guide finger and stays on the board. (notice also that this fingering allows you to get closer to that second fret and arches the fingers more to clear the open strings).

--||----|--2-|----|----
--||----|--3-|--3-|----
--||----|-1--|----|----
--||----|--2-|----|----
--||----|----|----|-----
--||----|----|----|-----

From the A to D...keep the 1st finger in place, slide the third finger forward, and bring the second finger 'over the top' and onto the e string.

--||----|----|----|----
--||----|--3-|----|----
--||--1-|-1--|----|----
--||----|--2-|----|----
--||----|--3-|----|-----
--||----|----|----|-----

The E chord is similar...side the first finger back a fret, lift the third finger over the second...or more typically I imagine, lift both to make the E chord but keep that first finger on as a guide.

Similarly in D, typical chords may be G and A...

--||----|--2-|--4-|----
--||----|----|--3-|----
--||----|-1--|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|--1-|----|-----
--||----|----|--2-|-----

This version of G I have heard called the "texas G" or something...anyway, the guide finger is the 3rd finger on the b string...to get to the A, similar to the above example from the D chord, or if G to A, use the third finger as a guide finger and slide back one fret putting the first and second fingers down as in the first fingering of A.

Similar guide fingerings can be found for most open chords...

--||----|--4-|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||--1-|--3-|----|----
--||--1-|--3-|----|----
--||----|--2-|----|-----
--||----|----|----|-----

Changing from the open E to B7 for example the 2nd finger stays in place. Getting to the A chord from E is easy enough using the 1st finger as a guide...getting from B7-A may be a little trickier, but you could see that the bottom three notes are the same fingering as our a chord down a string...so...

--||----|----|----|----
--||----|--3-|----|----
--||----|-1-3|----|----
--||--1-|--2-|----|----
--||----|--2-|----|-----
--||----|----|----|-----

So, you are moving the same "shape" up a string and squising the first finger up a little.

Not sure if they "teach" this kind of thing, most open chords have "guide finger" (my term) fingerings that make life easier.

...

I remember way back learning this stuff...have a guitar in your hands while watching TV or whatever and just practice changing without straining anything...helps with the muscle memory! I spent many months "stealing" time on a sisters nylon string without anyone knowing getting the open chords to sound right...it's normal!

If you take the guitar down to a music shop or if you now another player, they might be able to advise if the nut is a little high...there is a fair bit involved though and not for the ill prepared to fix...the frets may be uneven and if you lower it too far, there's no bringing it back up again!

[weakendwarrior]

I bet this post takes every guitarist for a trip back to when they first started out.

It seems like you'll never become proficient and then, one day, you seem to just effortlessly play the changes that had you frustrated for so long.

Two point's I'd like to make. The first, is that if you can't play it slowly, you can't play it! SLOW things down as far as it takes to execute the changes properly and then slowly increase to the desired tempo. It may not sound like much at first but at least you'll be training your muscles the right moves instead of some half-assed sloppy version of the same.

The second point is to try to minimize the amount of energy you're expending...this may be where a good teacher can be invaluable. You don't have to kill the strings but a lot of new-comers to "guitaring" think that the harder they press the better. You just have to have the string make contact with the fret. It's frustrating at first but it WILL come with methodical practice. Try to find a way to make it fun....there really is no ultimate goal with this stuff...it's all just one long journey and I can honestly say I had as much fun doing it the first week I picked up the insrument as I'm having now...40 years later.

[Mark F]

Wow, thanks for the response :) I'll be trying out pretty much all of the above!

I very much doubt there is a problem with the nut (and i do use a capo from time to time), though a few months ago i was using far too much pressure on the strings (still do from time to time, have to really concentrate on less pressure, but at first i was pretty much holding the chord for dear life...), this is slowly being overcome with noticable improvements all the time.

Regarding the finger strength/accuracy point, i started by learning simple tunes using single notes on the top 4 frets, this was slowly built up string by string and fret by fret, but in all honesty the tunes in the books i have didn't require too much control of my pinky (and i wonder about its strength a lot), also, my pinky doesn't enjoy as smooth a ride as any other finger, it bends to a point, and then snaps down, again something im working to improve, though the results of the excersises that i use (some posted by Jazztele) are pretty varied (i think im trying to run before i can walk, your post kind of tells me to calm down and stop thinking im doing things wrong, and stick with the excersises for longer periods)

Basically given that i do quite a few of the above suggestions, i think im just not dedicating enough time to the basic excersises so ill go from there, and i'll also try the G, Cadd9, D changes posted above, to get better accuracy and learn more on limiting my movements :)

Again, many thanks for your suggestions :) and i know a lot of the basic stuff isn't 'fun', (maybe thats why im not doing enough), but i would rather get things off to a good start and let the fun come later, otherwise it won't come at all...

[BottyGuy]

Practicing is the key to chord changes, but I also think warmingtone's fingering suggestions based on song key are important. Two add to his post I submit chords in C, where you'll see G-C-F-Am chords. I find it easier to use the pinky form of the G-Chord and finger the other chords from there:

G-Chord
--||----|----|-4--|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|-2--|----|----
--||----|----|-3--|----

C-Chord
--||----|----|--4-|----
--||-1--|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|-2--|----|----
--||----|--2-|-3--|----
--||----|----|--3-|----

F-Chord
--||-1--|----|----|----
--||-1--|----|----|----
--||----|-2--|----|----
--||----|--2-|-3--|----
--||----|----|--3-|----
--||----|----|----|----

Am-Chord
--||--1-|----|----|----
--||-1--|----|----|----
--||----|-2--|----|----
--||----|-2--|--3-|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----

[Leon Grizzard]

My (redundant) 2 cents is work slowly, thinking about where your fingers are going to go. Sometimes getting one finger to go to the right place will get the others to follow along.

I heartily recommend Tim Bowen's variation on JazzTele's exercise above to build independence and strength (curse you, Tim Bowen):

"While the picking hand is certainly a factor (especially with quick passages), I find that the vast majority of shortcomings with many players seeking to play with authority fall within the fretting hand.

The following exercise is the single most useful technique-developing physical exercise that I've found with my students. I should preface by saying that it has absolutely nothing to do with speed (it's probably best if each note is treated as a whole note or at least as a half note); the goal here is to get consistent tone and timbre from each note played, regardless of whether it's index, middle, ring, or pinky (finger independence).

Play the first fret F on the low E string with the index finger and concentrate on getting a really full, round tone. Leave the index finger in place at the first fret, and now place the middle finger on the F# at the second fret, and go for the same tone and volume. Leave the index and middle fingers on the first and second frets, and now play the G on the third fret with the ring finger. Keep the index, middle, and ring fingers where they are, and now play the G# on the fourth fret with the pinky. At this point, it's time to switch to next string (A); keep the middle, ring, and pinky intact and move only the index to the A# on the first fret of the A string. Follow accordingly across all six strings.

Points to keep in mind:

* Think about the next move. Keep the fingers as close to the fretboard as humanly possible.

* No finger is to be lifted from the fretboard until it has somewhere new to go; this is key to the exercise.

* If the natural tendency is to move the position of the left hand when reaching for notes that span a four fret span near the nut, don't do that. Stretch instead.


It's a really simple exercise (deceptively simple), but I've seen even seasoned players get a bit frustrated with it. If, for instance, your middle, index, and pinky fingers are where they are supposed to be, and you move the index finger to the adjacent string, and you're greeted by a resounding "thunk" - then one or more of the other fingers is not properly arched, and is laying on the string and subsequently masking it from ringing. If the timbre of notes played with the pinky are not equal to that of notes played by the other fingers, it's time for some detective work: either the pinky is not applying appropriate pressure, or it is contorted at some weird angle (I see this all the time), or some experimentation as to where exactly the fingertip is placed on the string (east and west) is in order. The biggest problem that I so often see with fretting hand finger independence is the relationship between the ring and pinky. This exercise doesn't take much time to get through once you get the routine, and it cures a multitude of sins and woes."
Tim Bowen

[Larry F]

Like many people, I hate not doing anything. All I want to do all day is advance my cause with a project in music. One of my projects is improving on the guitar. Sure, I practice and play, but I also do other things li the course of a day. I came across something a while ago that has really helped. I bought a rubber donut squeezer that I use while driving, riding, walking. Emotionally, I feel better because I can tell myself that I am working toward my goals as a guitar player. I have used rubber balls, but the donut gives me more hand positions to work with.

Of course, I agree with everyone who says do it slow. Whenever I notice a hesitation or glitch in my playing, I sit right down and iron it out in slow mo. I don't really start slow and speed up. I just play slow for a while, then try it at my normal speed. That's probably because I like to play games with that sort of thing.

If you think that building up calluses will help, you can try soaking your fingers in witch hazel. I find that getting my hands wet softens my calluses a little. I just dip them in witch hazel for less than a minute, then dry them off. A couple of minutes later I am good to go.

I hope you have a good fingerboard, nut, and strings. I remember starting off on a Stella with gigantic strings. It should be a crime to sell guitars set up like that. Think of all the people who became discouraged and quit.

[neocaster]

I'm newer than most here. Better than I ever thought I'd be, but still frequently frustrated. First my mental tips, the things that KEEP ME PLAYING!

1. Decide that you're going to be frustrated often, and that your progress, no matter how good, will usually seem inadequate. You'll most likely have some bursts of progress, then get frustrated again as they seem to vanish without a trace. Make a conscious decision that you can live with this and keep playing. Then keep playing.

2. Admire great players, but avoid comparing yourself to them. Record yourself, and from time to time, go back and listen. You'll recognize more progress this way. It alleviates some frustration and helps keep your heart in it.

and some technical stuff a good teacher suggested:

3. Play in situations where you're doing something else. Sometimes I play chords, changes, or scales while I'm sitting at home watching the TV and it helps commit this to muscle memory so it doesn't take up my whole consciousness. Sometimes t he less I think, the better I sound.

Then, like everyone else suggests, go slow. Every note in a chord is important. Play it slowly and make sure the played notes are each clear. The miracle of chords is that each string can be thought of as its own instrument. You're practically your own little orchestra. repetition will allow you to go faster and stay just as clearly. It's better to be slow and clear than fast and sloppy. Slow will turn itself into fast, but fast, sloppy playing rarely turns itself ito fast, clear playing.

[strat a various]

Do you have a friend who is a pretty good guitar player? I too am concerned with your guitar in terms of the string height, nut grooves, and bridge set-up. I have a couple of cheaper guitars I picked up to leave lying around, or to take to the beach, and I had to re-cut the nut slots, they were way too high. This is a common problem, even on some medium priced guitars in the past 15 or 20 years.
If you don't have a friend who can help you by checking out your action, it may be worth looking up a qualified tech at a good music store and having him assess the guitar's nut, action, and neck. I have seen beginners struggle for months on a guitar that was set up very poorly at the factory and at the store that sold it, some so bad that I had a hard time playing them at the first few frets, and I've been making a living playing for 30+ years.
Hand and finger damage, some of it permanent, can result from trying to play a guitar with a too-high nut.
If you're certain (are you?) that the guitar has a good set-up, you should add one thing to your daily routine: learn the major scale in at least one position across the six strings, the fingering is widely available on line and in method books, and play it over several times when you warm up for 5 or 10 minutes a day. This should be a daily warm up from now on. Even though it's single note playing, it involves all the fingers and is a great "pinky" exercise. I still do this for 5 minutes a day, and I'm working gigs right now literally 7 days a week. It's a life-long thing.

[ddewerd]

I didn't see if anyone mentioned it here yet, but playing with a metronome can also help. Keep it really slow, and count 1-2-3-4 for each strum. Then think of it as 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, switch-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, switch-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, etc.

or (using chord names) something like this

A234, A234, D234, D234
A234, A234, E234, E234
A234, A234, D234, D234
A234, E234, A234, A234

That's a standard 1-4-1-5 progression used in a million country songs (don't worry about what the 1-4-1-5 part means yet). You can also do the same pattern with other chords like:

DDGG
DDAA
DDGG
DADD

or

CCFF
CCGG
CCFF
CGCC

or

GGCC
GGDD
GGCC
GDGG

As was mentioned before, take a very close look at the chord changes before you start to play a progression. Play andA chord, then veeeeerrrryy slowly switch to a D. Watch where your fingers move and minimize the movement as much as possible. Try not to lift your fingers up, but rather slide them over the strings. Watch for common shapes, like C and F, where the fingering is almost identical except for just moving the whole pattern up or down a string. Think of your middle and ring fingers as being "glued" together - the shape doesn't change, just the location.

Another trick you can use is to focus on getting the root notes planted first (meaning the lowest sounding notes in the chord). As you practice changing chords, move those fingers first. If you think about it, if you are strumming with a basic downstroke, the first strings that get hit are the lowest ones (in tone). So make sure that your fingers are in place first for them. You'd be surprised at how much time you can gain between strumming the lowest note and getting your fingers in place for the higher notes. It's not much, but that split second as you strum can give you enough time to get the rest of your fingers in place.

But most of all, don't give up and don't get discouraged!

We all started at the same point. The more you do it, the better it will get.

Good luck and have fun!

Cheers,
Doug

[bingy]

My most important advice is to stop looking...if you are using your eyes to make chord shapes it can really slow you down...sometimes you may need to look to change positions, but try to resist.
In general eyes are not required to play the guitar.

[drewsblues]

Originally Posted by warmingtone

Another tip, may be in the way you are fretting open chords. Here is a way in which to finger common chords using "guide fingers"

+1

Excellent advice here (as are the other contributors to this post). If you can figure out how to play chords without moving your fingers too much (or, rather, moving only the fingers you need to move), then you'll likely find that it all goes much more smoothly. You have to concentrate on it at first -- I'm talking REAL SLOW MOTION -- but the time invested up front will make it automatic after awhile.

Good luck on the journey. We're all hiking it with you!

Meanwhile, back to nursing the hangover...

[sonserve]

Play very slow. Tap your foot and use a metronome. I bet you can pull one up on the web. Go as slow as it takes to get it right. The capo idea is a very good suggestion. Have your fingers on the guitar as often as possible, like when you watch TV. Remember your muscles are developing a memory of what you play. If you play it wrong once you will be inclined to play it that way again, or when you get it right, so slow down.
Good luck!

[BigDaddyLH]

Another thing to keep in mind is: even if you flub a chord, keep the beat. Everyone flubs chords but what sounds worse is stopping and starting, and if you'll be playing with others you just can't do that.

[Televised]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

My (redundant) 2 cents is work slowly, thinking about where your fingers are going to go. Sometimes getting one finger to go to the right place will get the others to follow along.

I heartily recommend Tim Bowen's variation on JazzTele's exercise above to build independence and strength (curse you, Tim Bowen):

"While the picking hand is certainly a factor (especially with quick passages), I find that the vast majority of shortcomings with many players seeking to play with authority fall within the fretting hand.

The following exercise is the single most useful technique-developing physical exercise that I've found with my students. I should preface by saying that it has absolutely nothing to do with speed (it's probably best if each note is treated as a whole note or at least as a half note); the goal here is to get consistent tone and timbre from each note played, regardless of whether it's index, middle, ring, or pinky (finger independence).

Play the first fret F on the low E string with the index finger and concentrate on getting a really full, round tone. Leave the index finger in place at the first fret, and now place the middle finger on the F# at the second fret, and go for the same tone and volume. Leave the index and middle fingers on the first and second frets, and now play the G on the third fret with the ring finger. Keep the index, middle, and ring fingers where they are, and now play the G# on the fourth fret with the pinky. At this point, it's time to switch to next string (A); keep the middle, ring, and pinky intact and move only the index to the A# on the first fret of the A string. Follow accordingly across all six strings.

Points to keep in mind:

* Think about the next move. Keep the fingers as close to the fretboard as humanly possible.

* No finger is to be lifted from the fretboard until it has somewhere new to go; this is key to the exercise.

* If the natural tendency is to move the position of the left hand when reaching for notes that span a four fret span near the nut, don't do that. Stretch instead.


It's a really simple exercise (deceptively simple), but I've seen even seasoned players get a bit frustrated with it. If, for instance, your middle, index, and pinky fingers are where they are supposed to be, and you move the index finger to the adjacent string, and you're greeted by a resounding "thunk" - then one or more of the other fingers is not properly arched, and is laying on the string and subsequently masking it from ringing. If the timbre of notes played with the pinky are not equal to that of notes played by the other fingers, it's time for some detective work: either the pinky is not applying appropriate pressure, or it is contorted at some weird angle (I see this all the time), or some experimentation as to where exactly the fingertip is placed on the string (east and west) is in order. The biggest problem that I so often see with fretting hand finger independence is the relationship between the ring and pinky. This exercise doesn't take much time to get through once you get the routine, and it cures a multitude of sins and woes."
Tim Bowen

I'm a beginner/intermediate and I do this exercise or something very similiar to it every time I fire up the amp and am "slowly" improving. The key is to hold all fingers down on the fretboard and making sure you have a good note coming from your finger placement and not going on until you do. The other thing I do is emphasis on going slow and as already mentioned making sure I have a good note resonating out from where I placed all of my fingers. I do the seven open major chords slowly making sure I nailed them with my 1,2,3 fingers, and then I'll go through the same seven major chords again and slowly play them with my 2,3,4 fingers. I now do a bunch of other warm ups too but these are done every time before I ever begin to play a song.

If you take it slow, keep practicing, it gets better.....but it's in the course of weeks and months, not hours and days.

Hang with it because it's really worth it in the long run. Good luck!

[kp8]

Originally Posted by weakendwarrior

I bet this post takes every guitarist for a trip back to when they first started out.

I am trying some of these things and the findings are predictable: wow i need to practice this stuff. No where near as good as i should be at making smooth flub free changes. What an eye opener of a thread. Dang.

[Mark F]

To answer some of the above:

Yep, i have a friend who is a pretty good player, he's had a look at the 2 guitars i have, the first i recieved when a friend died, and was considered 'reasonable', which i take to mean not good, and it didn't work when plugged in, so i stripped it to have a look around whats actually in an electric. The second i bought new whilst fixing the first, and when he looked at it, he advised that the neck was 'superb for the price' (£100 uk) and it would make a very good shred guitar if i wanted to play that way. In my hand, the second guitar's neck feels much better, it is slightly thicker (can't be more than 1/16th of an inch in it though) and i am far more comfortable with it, so thats the one i pick up all the time.

When i first started trying chords, my left thumb was putting pressure on the neck, and pushing it away from me (so i was forcing myself into a strange position), i've stopped that and as said im relaxing more, but one thing i noticed whilst re-reading the thread is the finger exercise through frets 1-4, i haven't been doing it right, i have been releasing all my fingers when moving up a string... something i need to change.

I rarely look at what my left hand is doing whilst practising, usually it puts me off for some reason, and both hands seem to turn to jelly when i do, i have so far found i do much better by feel and listening. I do use an online metranome, though its not ideal as it keeps me near this computer, im looking at buying one when i have the funds (i have something against electronic ones, don't know why, and have found in the past that cheaper usually costs more, so will be buying a mechanical one)

I would also like to point out that speed is not something im looking at right now (i know some people gauge everything on speed, but im more a 'do it slow, do it right' kind of person), im purely aiming for accuracy and timing, that said though, im going to work a little harder on playing a little slower

[younkint]

I've only "subscribed" to two other threads on TDPRI since I've been a member. This is a good one, and the third. There's excellent advice here, even if you've been playing decades.

[ddewerd]

Another trick is to find your comfort zone for a chord. If it doesn't feel right, or it's hard to play, try these:

1. While playing a chord, swivel your left elbow in towards your body and then way out as far as you can. You'll notice your hand pivots right around the bottom of your thumb

2. Then while also playing a chord, collapse your left wrist all the way backwards - you can't even reach the strings can you? Now do the opposite, bend your wrist all the way forward toward your forearm. Notice how it changes the angle of your fingertips - from the flatter part to the tips.

3. Now every time you play a chord that's giving you trouble, repeat both 1 and 2 above until you find what works. You'll find that different chords are easier to play as you rotate your wrist and move your elbow.

And there's no right or wrong way to do it. Find whatever feels - and sounds - good to you.

Cheers,
Doug

[sonserve]

Good tip Doug!

[klasaine]

Since none of us can 'watch' you play it's actually impossible to diagnose a problem.

My first 'good' teacher had me approach changing chords with this technique ...

Finger a chord shape on your instrument ... say Em. Make sure you have it clean and nice.
Pick another chord, say G and while you're still holding down the Em imagine what the G chord looks like on the fingerboard. Really, REALLY see that G chord in your head. When you see it clearly - and not before - then move to it on your instrument. Try to move all your fingers simultaneously. *If you're not dead serious about the visualization thing it won't work.
I still use this technique for learning hard things. IT WORKS.
I also had lots of success with this when I taught guitar lessons.

*I believe in athletics it was/is called psychocybernetics (Inner Game of Tennis) ... you know, see the tennis ball going over the net ... see the victory, etc.

[warmingtone]

Mark F....got a good range of advice here...something you identified yourself is the pressure thing. Really, excessive pressure is a common curse.

It really does not take a lot of pressure to hold down a note or chord, it's not something we are used to doing for long periods of time (clasping things like a chord shape) that sometimes takes a little stamina and some time to overcome the muscle memory of holding one shape to release to another.

...

A big part of the problem is finger independence...while it might not take a lot of pressure to hold one particular note in a chord, it might take a lot for one particular note in the chord. So, the end result is that all the fingers apply this stronger pressure that will result in some "locking" and possibly even collapsing of the "shape" making things worse...if nothing else it will tire your hand excessively and may even be a 'risk'...

One way to get this independence is through single note playing or specific exercises. Pentatonics are not always the best place to start although musically useful and easy, they frequently only require the use of certain fingers, not all of them.

One very "famous" exercise is the finger per fret sequence and play them in all combinations...1,2,3,4 fingers as well as 1,4,3,2 etc and on each string. Use only enough pressure to play a note cleanly and play only as fast as you can do this. Hold the fingers down with an even pressure as you move the others.

I confess to having done a bit of this back in the day, but I have since changed my perspective on some of this...partly in light of a lot of shredders. You can get remarkable independence and certainly speed from such exercises, but it is certainly not musical or musically useful.

A better approach would be to play scales...after all this is what piano and other instrumentalists have to do as a matter of course...plus you are likely to have to learn these things eventually and will aid in your chord playing no end. You are getting the exercise and the "theory" with more variety in finger combinations.

Even with this I have changed my perspective, while you should learn some scales I now feel that learning to pick out melodies out of the scales, not just run them up and down or even in sequences, is a better approach and certainly more fun. Again, even more combinations of skips and strings in general.

...

However...there is more...as always in my posts

There are other aspects to be worked on. One is the 'synchronization' between the hands. Often 'flubbed' notes and chord are a result of you having to do different things with each hand but at a precise timing. You need to have the required pressure on a note just before striking it and the strike needs to be in time with the music...a tall order, especially at the beginning and is the first thing to go after a bit of a layoff.

Again scale and melodic single string stuff can help with the independence and this stuff without having to worry about multiple strings and fingers.

...

One thing that I think I find useful, and something that I still do habitually, is to practice a lot of these things away from the guitar in everyday life. In the car on the steering wheel for instance, or just walking along (I often find I am doing these things against my leg so I can feel the pressures), often while listening to music and doing these things in time.

For instance, the exercise of one finger per fret can be practiced by applying a light pressure on to a surface, much like wrapping ones fingers gently. Try to lift the little finger without the pressure coming off the others or increasing for instance. At first you need to pay close attention to how the pressures are being evenly (or not) exerted...eventually it just becomes subconscious and I have often caught myself doing these "exercises" without even realizing it.

The other tip with this is to do BOTH hands in sync. This can help with training the mind for both hands to work together (you can try things like doing the opposite sequence in one hand to the other such as 1,2,3,4 and 4,3,2,1) but there is likely a wired psychological connection that needs to be worked on. If nothing else, doing both hands will hold in good stead for fingerpicking and muting perhaps at a later stage...I really do think though that it helps a bit with the synchronization thing when it comes to playing.

...

Otherwise, yes the visualization thing can be helpful...in time you will also be able to "visualize" how something "feels" in your hands. Again, with some attention at first, a lot of these things become subconscious and you don't really consciously "visualize" things.

[weelie]

I didn't read all of this thread, but this is my beginner video showing the three most common ways I fret an open G chord: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DAPe6SgfV4 (so with fringer 123 or 234 or then thumb over style so that thumb takes the sixth string and mutes the fifth)

I at first could not do the other two, so I played thumb over style. So if you have trouble with the chord, you could try that. Works for soem, for others feels impossible.

The open D I also play either with two fingers (first one flat over the three top strings) or three. Depending on which is easier for moving to the next chord etc.

Of course, to learn the chords, you should make your brain leanr the muscle movements. Lift a chord a bit, bang the fingers back, lift more, slam them back, more and more... No right hand work really needed.

Open G shape is the same as the open C, in a way, just up a string. So do practice going from G7 to C and back.

[Mark F]

Thanks again for all the suggestions, and the clarification on some techniques :)

I have started the 1234 finger exercise (with a slight variation, i start 0, 1, 2 then 0, 1, 3 working up to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and then go again with 0, 2, 3 then 0, 2, 4 etc, hope you can make more sense of that than i can put into this post), and am noticing problems playing up to the high e, more in moving my 3rd finger without moving my little finger, so will keep plodding with it as a warm up for a while (i can't see that ill notice much effect for a few weeks at least, so will keep at it and after maybe a month or so, will post as to any improvements) Plating the same thing from the high e to the low e is very easy by comparison (still frets 1-4, not 4-1)

I have also started looking at the major scales again (the last time i tried them, i had no major hurdles, but stopped playing through them when i had started to transpose the few melodies i had learned in 'C' to the likes of 'F' for the different fingerings, which also got sidelined when i started trying chords...) At the time, i wasn't advised anything about the major scales, i happened to figure that i was playing in the key of 'C' from past musical experience (used to be in a brass band many moons ago) and used the 'tone, tone, semitone' rule to figure the major scales out, also tried moving a couple of boxes around the neck, changing the fingering to 'play' the notes that had been the nut, just to see if the guitar worked like i thought it did (and as you all know, it does :) )

Also, i had a good look at the chord changes i mentioned, and i noticed that when i got the G right (fingers 2, 3, and 4), the main reason it went right was the pinky wasn't wavering, and landed on the high e perfectly, and kind of led the other 2 fingers into position (so when its shaky, the other fingers have maybe 'lost' their reference?) The D is definately a timing issue, from C to D was no problem, from G to D is a problem at the moment, but as said, in timing, so i need to get that paticular change down a lot better.

In the coming weeks im looking at getting the 4 finger G, D, Cadd9 down too, i had a little go, extra slowly, and it presented few problems (that said, even though i tried that at least ten times slower than usual, i could not have gone any faster, but for a first attempt i thought it went well). That paticular exercise i think will help me in getting a full 6 string F (3rd finger position in relation to fingers 1 and 2 being a problem there, as its bent down to get the right string more in relation to any other exercise i have done, and the 4 string F position i can get moves most of my hand so far below the neck as to make changing to anything a slow process)

And as all of you have said, given that you can't actually see whats going on, you can only offer limited help, well, the help all of you have offered is far from limited :) i cannot express how grateful i am :) and i know that having a teacher who can see whats going on will help a lot, but i think a lot of whats been said here will help just as much (if not more)

[Hiker]

Here's some common progressions-fun rhythms:

A5 E5 B5 D5
B5 G5 D5 A5
E5 G5 D5 A5
D5 A5 C5 G5
G5 C5 D5 C5

A power chord is also often referred to as a "fifth" or "5" chord. If, for example, you see a chord written as C5, this is a C power chord.

Here's a '5' power chord-muting lesson:

[warmingtone]

Sounds like you are making reasonable progress, just keep at it. A teacher may be able to identify where things are a problem, but really everyone has dexterity problems at first, it's just physiology that things don't work independently...just perseverance will prevail, this would apply regardless of having a teacher or not. A teachers advice would likely be very similar to the advice you have gotten already.

If doing the 1,2,3,4 thing, a good idea is to include string skips which I forgot to mention...so play the low E then 4 on the D string, E,D,A,G,D,B,G,E...etc...even low E to high E...these things will help with locating fingers for chording as well.

The scales and melodies though will be possibly more musically useful..the 1,2,3,4 thing can become a bit machine like, but still it does work as a physical exercise.

Don't over do things though...your tendons and such need to rest as they work to a new task. Everyone tends to apply too much force at first that slows things down...

I'm reminded about something we used to do as kids. If you stand in a doorway with your hands by your side, then push the back of your hands as hard as you can against the side...when you step aside, your arms will levitate. These physical responses are just the same with something like guitar and the key to it really is to use only the force necessary for the time necessary.

Typing that I thought of another "exercise" that may help. Take a chord shape and try just resting your fingers on the strings 'in shape', apply the pressure as close as you can to just before strumming to get a clean sound...lift and repeat for every strum. This will help stopping prolonged pressure and fatigue that may be causing your fingers to "lock up". More experienced guitarists tend only to apply pressure to a chord for as long as it is needed to sound...good muting exercise anyway...and the result will be hundreds of attempts at applying pressure to a chord shape...

just a thought...

ADDITION: Another ggod thing to learn are a few classic rock riffs to build up finger independance...Jimmy Page has a catalogue of good finger workouts, but if you prefer "pipeline" of the beatles tunes like 'day tripper' and 'birthday' are finger twisters that can trip up the best of us!

[Overseer]

as a fellow beginner... my best advice would be to slow down in more ways than just in time.. but also to concentrate on learning one thing at a time.

i've learned from day 1 (via the david hamburger acoustic book) to use anchor or guide fingers.

following that route... i've D+A+E locked down.. (its fairly easy to add Em and Am from there too.)

these use the index finger as the guide.

the next shift is C+G and then add D in the mix with those to bring you back into a common position.

never seen it explicity written, but those revolve around the use of the middle and ring fingers more


you really have to just practice the single shape for a while, then learn the next shape, then learn to switch between them.

i've got D+A+E down real well, G+C fairly well and have just learned the 'F' barre which i'm tring to switch to and from D with and also to move quickly up and down the neck to G barre etc etc

i found small regular practice 5 or 10 minute (during tv adverts) works really well for me when learning new chord shapes and changes.

having a song to practice against helps. wild thing is good for D+A+E, knockin on heavens door and hey joe use C+G as well.

but when theres no song, or you're not quick enough then try playing 8 down strums of the first chord, then switch then 8 of the second, then back again. as you get more familiar drop that down to 4 strums, then 2.

i've pretty much mapped out all chords i know against each other and learned to change between each as part of my practice.

[Mark F]

Had been trying 'knockin on heavens door', and was sometimes reasonable (the G being the main problem), and started trying to strum along to ole Bob, but it was way too fast for me at the moment, i keep having a go with it (no backing), but found 'wonderful tonight' (not a favorite in all honesty) much more to my current pace, and almost the same (G, D, C, D with the odd Em), i definately have C, E, Em, A, Am and the 4 string F down, D i suspect is pretty much down, just needs a little more work. When my practise goes really well, i have no trouble with the likes of 'I won't back down' (i do like that one ;)) and 'Make me smile' (along with the intro), its the G that is causing the most problems at the minute, so im kind of holding off the 6 string F and the B chord until im more consistant.

Confidence is also definately an issue, i have tried the 'picture the chord first' suggestion quite a few times, but with the G, the more i picture it, the more i wonder if it'll come out right and thus it doesn't... Strangely, with the chords i do have down, i more imagine the sound i want, and then play it almost without thinking.

And yep, i find smaller practises helpful, i can't just have an hour practise, when i did try it my hand cramped really badly, so i usually have a 10 minute, followed by a break of about half an hour, then a 20 minute practise, break and then a half hourish (if i have the time), sometimes i just keep repeating the half hour/break thing, and usually those practises go really well! Just wish i could do that at least once a week with smaller practises on the other days hehe (but thats life). There is something to be said for knowing when to actually stop, just wish i always realised when that time was :)

And related to one of Warmingtones posts, im wondering if i have sort of set a psychological barrier with the G, if i have, ill break it down :) but as i have found from looking into the advice above, finger strength and independance still need a lot of work anyway, and practising the 4 fret exercise along with scales and simple melodies won't hinder my progress at all (I see what you mean with string skips, would help my hand become more flexible whilst keeping the accuracy, ill expand the exercise when i can feel it getting easier to keep my hand on its toes :))

[BigDaddyLH]

Trouble with G? Are you playing it as:

G-Chord
--||----|----|-4--|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|-2--|----|----
--||----|----|-3--|----

I prefer to play that as

G-Chord
--||----|----|-4--|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
XX||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|-3--|----

... where the A string is muted by the finger playing the low G. Adding that B on the A string just makes the chord muddy to my ear -- it's better to have a gap between the bass note and the rest of the chord. And now that you're playing a 2 finger chord, you can fret it with other fingers, like 2&3 instead of 3&4.

Try playing the chord without a note on the A string.

[Overseer]

^ never seen that one.. i've seen the pinky version referred to as a folk-g.. that fingering makes it easy to play gm7 with the index and a lift of the pinky



hi mark...

i got "knockin" better by looking around at lots of sites and lessons to find a good strum pattern.. looking at my geeky homemade "song fragments" book.. what i've settled on is..

G -> D DDu
D -> D DDu

and

Am -> D DDu DuD DDu

then (same again)
G -> D DDu
D -> D DDu

and

C -> D DDu DuD DDu


fwiw i find D->G a harder than G->D..

[SimpleOne]

Get some songs and play them no matter how hard it seems at first, make the changes as noted, slow at first.

Your mind and fingers will be learning.

Help them by never backing down from learning no matter how hard or frustrating it is at first.

The strange way your fingers have to move at first will seem difficult and you may be tempted to conquer a few chord changes only.

Keep moving forward and know that each new chord will reward you will greater utility on your instrument.

Do you wish to learn swiftly or slowly?

Me I took the slow route...I hope your miles vary!

Best to you! Doug

[SimpleOne]

Man you have Bob D. To teach you!!

Great stuff...lol

Your fingers will adjust to how hard to fret and your finger tips will condition accordingly.

I mean soon you will be able to play longer, and with practice, like magic, your fingers will find a way to act with the least amount of force needed, thus lessening aching tips and fatigue.

[warmingtone]

Hahahaha...all this brings back distant memories....

Of course when I started playing, the G chord was fingered this way!

G-Chord
--||----|----|-3--|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|-1--|----|----
--||----|----|-2--|----

But the other advices are all good too. The G with the A string muted is pretty common and generally what I might use in reality, especially if there is an open B string, there's no need for two 3rds (b notes there) and being so low in the register, the two loest notes can sound a little "thick".

This chord...

G-Chord
--||----|-2--|-4--|----
--||----|----|-3--|----
--||----|-1--|----|----
--||----|----|----|----
--||----|-(1)|----|----
--||----|----|-2--|----

...generally helps the D-G change as the third finger remains steady, makes good voice leading sounds and without the a string (muted by the second finger on the low E) you get a big "power chord" of all G's and D's in it that can sound more "in tune" and open to most ears.

You seem to be doing very well in identifying the problem parts, playing for longer times will come, but short goes is always better...having a guitar handy that you can just pickup during add breaks is still a habit I maintain, even on the 'net I have a guitar in reach to get a hang of what people are talking about and try out ideas for a minute or two.

It's interesting that you don't seem to have as much of a problem with C. A change from a C chord or A minor from D such as in "knocking" does not really allow for "guide fingering"...it might just be the little finger or stretching between the highest and lowest strings that you find uncomfortable.

...

For the record...the first song I learned was Arlo Guthrie's "walking down the line" which I learned as a two chord song of A and D (I didn't know the guide fingering A chord then) and I still catch myself singing while walking along sometimes. (it might be on the "alice's restaurant" album).

Picture an 11 year old in the early seventies, swiping his older sisters cheapo nylon string and strumming with a thumb those two chords and one song, over and over again...

For old time sakes I picked up the guitar next to me just now and got all misty eyed, don't know how Arlo played it, but I learned it like this...

A......................................A / / D / / A
...I'm a walking down the line
A......................................D / / / / A
...I'm a walking down the line
D...........................A....D...............A ...
...Walking down the line, feet will be flying
D......................................A.....
...Tell you 'bout my troubled mind
D......................................A.....
...Tell you 'bout my troubled mind

Got a heavy, heavy girl
Got a heavy, heavy girl
Got a heavy, heavy girl, she ain't treating me well
If things get better only time will tell
If things get better only time will tell

Or something like that...kind of blueprint for how life turned out really...oh well, didn't even need "three chords and the truth" (as they say) to play that!

Of course doesn't help with the old G chord, except to avoid it altogether!

Got to cherish these early fumblings as I have a feeling that we all have somethings from the early experiences that last through the ages. No matter how far you go technically, there is still something almost mystical about playing things like this.

It's good to see the old repertoire hasn't been replaced, "knocking" has significant memories for me as a teenager sitting around singing along about putting "guns in the ground" whatever that meant to teenagers (G'n'R kind of killed the song for me later...lost it's magic somehow...hahaha)...I remember cutting my teeth on barre chords with "lay lady lay"...

Ahhh...memories...

...

Ok...so after being self indulgent there for a bit...I should try and offer something to you...maybe you would like "Wicked Game" (Chris Issacks)...

On the record it's in Bm...so a three chord song through out for verse, choruses and guitar riffs. As barre chords needed for the Bm may be asking a bit much, you can transpose it to Em to utilize your chord vocab (put a capo on the 7th fret to play along with the record perhaps)

So...originally...Bm-A-E
transposed......Em-D-A

Em.......................D.................
.....What a wicked game you play
A............................................
.....To make me feel this way
Em.......................D.................
.....What a wicked thing to do
A............................................
.....To let me dream of you......

etc...

If you like this song, let me know as the instrumental riff can be played in this key as a beginners version with largely open strings...if you ask nicely, I could TAB it out perhaps...give you something to work on (or anyone else interested )

...

Of course, there's always the blues...you could learn any three chord blues, country or folk song and "transpose" it to chords you know and are comfortable with. One benefit to this is not just encouragement, but to get your left hand working confidently so you can concentrate on the right as things come together, it's not really a "cheat"...in fact it reveals much of how music works and how similar yet unique so many songs really are.

As my posts are unfortunately long most times...I'll leave it there for now...but more than happy to help out anyone with an interest to throw out a few tunes or transpose things into playable versions...

[Mark F]

Originally Posted by warmingtone

It's interesting that you don't seem to have as much of a problem with C. A change from a C chord or A minor from D such as in "knocking" does not really allow for "guide fingering"...it might just be the little finger or stretching between the highest and lowest strings that you find uncomfortable.

Well the above sentance got me thinking, strangely not when i read it, but when i was trying to sleep hehe (typical) I never have had a problem with C, fingers have literally always landed spot on where they need to be, and its one of the 2 chords i can get the quickest (along with Em), always has been...

Just looked through my older practise book, lots of single note melodies, and there is a little 12 bar bluesy thing, that is basically playing up and down through C (with other notes added in), i last played it long long ago so never really realised what it was until last night, and its just been confirmed... It was (when i learned it) by far the hardest thing id tried up to that point, as it was my introduction to alternate picking (just a little awkward at first), and i really had to work out a finger movement pattern for the first time (i couldn't always release a string after playing a note, as id get in a little mess and lose timing).

Just working out a few little similar melodies using other chords now to see if the basic exercise will help with them!

And again, thanks for all the help from everyone :)

[Mark F]

Just a little update as to how im getting on :)

I have been putting more time into the finger exercises over the last week, and today i've had quite a few short stints, along with going back over a few of the little melodies i was practising with before trying chords, and i've honestly been finding them a little easier than previously (most were not that hard anyway, but with some, i would have to move a fretting finger quite quickly so as not to mute, or cause buzz on the next string up/down for the next note played, now im able to keep a finger down when it suits in most circumstances). Also, i have for the first time, started to feel a very slight warmth and firmness in my 3rd finger and pinky. Something tells me its a sign to stop for the moment (until tomorrow :)) and also that something possibly positive is happening in those fingers. Will post more as and when :)

Thanks again all :)