Em D F C - why does this work?

[GiddyHitch]

Em D F C

The F seems to push this out of a minor or major scale, at least the way that I know them, but it still works in the song and to my ears. I'm just getting the fundamentals of music theory down, so this one is over my head. The song is "One-Armed Scissor" - be forewarned, it's post-hardcore.

Thanks!

[octatonic]

All the chords are diatonic to C Major except the D.
In C Major the D would be a minor chord.

As far as 'why does this work'- there are a bunch of different ways of explaining how this works but that doesn't necessarily describe why it works.
That is a pandora's box of psychology, neurology, mathematics and the art of music.

If you want to look at the chords played using open chords you could observe some interesting things.

The Em would have an E on top.
The D would have an F♯ on top.
The F major would have an F.
The C would have a C on top.

The interesting bit (to me) is the semi-tone movement between the D and the F chords top note.
This is a rudimentary type of voice leading that you see a lot in jazz.

[Larry F]

Originally Posted by octatonic

This is a rudimentary type of voice leading that you see a lot in jazz.

This is a good point. Here are some voice-leading paths. The first note corresponds to the first chord Em, the second note corresponds to the second chord D, and so on.

Em D F C

G F# F E
B A A G
E D C C

Here is one long descending line supported by the chord pattern played 3 times:

E D C C B A A G G F# F E

The line can be repeated after the last E. Also, it appears that no ascending stepwise lines fit the progression.

A last thought. If I were to improvise over this, the first thing I would listen for is F/F#. If I can make the note F sound good over the D, then I could improvise with the C major scale. If F works over D, it is because it is a flat 3 blue note.

[Leon Grizzard]

The bass has this signature chromatic descending line G F# F E, and these chords have those notes, and so they harmonize the bass line, but they don't really work, in a manner of speaking. It sounds jerky, or disjointed, which fits this disaffection of the music. If you repeat any four chords over and over, you will create a aural pattern.

If I was sololing over this, the basic key is E minor and I would force the E minor pentatonic over the whole thing.

[GiddyHitch]

Thanks for the insights, guys. I haven't gotten to voice leading in my studies yet, but this definitely sheds some light on the subject. I'll have to revisit this thread when I have a deeper understanding of what's going on. Now I understand how someone learning English feels - the fundamentals were the easy part, it's the exceptions and real-world usage that will take long term diligence to master.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

The bass has this signature chromatic descending line G F# F E, and these chords have those notes, and so they harmonize the bass line, but they don't really work, in a manner of speaking. It sounds jerky, or disjointed, which fits this disaffection of the music. If you repeat any four chords over and over, you will create a aural pattern.

If I was sololing over this, the basic key is E minor and I would force the E minor pentatonic over the whole thing.

I could probably solo using a combination of C and G major, targeting the F# on the D major and then the root of the F chord.
It stands out to me as being melodically interesting.

[klasaine]

As to the 'why' Leon, Larry and Octa pretty much covered it.
As I was playing through it, my soul/R&B/jazz inner self subbed out the changes ...

Em7 - Bm7 - Dm7 - Cmaj7