An honest look at my own guitar playing and tastes

[Lerb21]

(This is all just cropping up in my head as I write) I just sat down (EDIT: AFTER) taking a shower, trying to get the sparkles off me. I let my mind wander for a while, doing the BS I normally do. Check the TDPRI, look at the Don Rich thread in the main forum and check the Emerald and Donocaster projects in the build forum. On a whim I went to Google, intent on searching for something. I let my mind wander a bit.

It eventually settled upon Alan Jackson's "Who's Cheatin' Who". That led to the guitarist on the track, Brent Mason, who then led over to our buddy Sol Philcox. I figured I'd watch his crazy Chicken Picking/rock/jazz video again, so I typed his name into google and watched it. Once again, amazing job. Quick, accurate, twangy, everything it should be. I looked over at the Goldiecaster and thought of how inept I sound compared to Sol. I picked up the guitar and played for a little bit, enjoying my simple twangy Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakam leads.

It made me think again of how simple my stuff is in comparison to guys like Sol, Johnny Hiland, Brent Mason, Albert Lee, Redd Volkaert, and Brad Paisley. I mean heck, most of the stuff I do is in 4/4 and the fastest notes that I do are 16th triplets on the speed lick that I stole from Don Rich. The guys above breaking out 32nd notes at tempos much higher than what I play.

I remember a little lick from one of Forest Lee Jr.'s videos on youtube. It's a quick little lick over an A chord. I try slowing it down and playing it for a half of an hour. I get nothing. This makes me think of Doug 7's stuff but I've viewed his stuff before and I can't get anywhere with it.

The more I fool around on this Telecaster, I seem to see more and more inadequacies in my playing. All I do anymore is transpose the key to both E and A positions go to the pentatonic box and play my Don Rich stuff. I throw in some Luther Perkins stuff and some Roy Nichols licks but... meh.

Honestly guys, I feel like a Don Rich clone. It wouldn't bother me as much if I was a good one. I suck at singing harmony and I know about 15 out of hundreds of Don Rich licks.

And then I think about it some more. Even if I was a perfect copy, what good would that be? We already had one Don, and he was magic when coupled with Buck and only Buck. That and the fact that Don wasn't trying to be anybody but Don Rich. In a way, I am a parasite on the legacy of Don Rich and Buck Owens.

That means I'm almost like an (geek reference) Orc or Troll from Middle-Earth or an Elvis Impersonator. Nothing more than a crappy emulation of something better.

This would help if I wasn't so dang close minded. Like the thread title said, "Is it okay to not like Jimi Hendrix... at all?". I know Jimi was a good player but I just am not willing to listen to his stuff more than I have or, God forbid, try to learn something from him.

All I really listen to is traditional country or stuff similar to it. Here's my big list: Johnny Cash, Buck Owens, Merle Haggard, Marty Stuart, Dwight Yoakam, The Beatles, Ray Scott, Hank III, The Derailers, The Boxmasters, Tom Petty, Brad Paisley, Dierks Bentley, Josh Turner, Randy Travis, Alan Jackson, George Straight, Tom Petty, SRV (very sparsely), Eric Clapton (very sparsely), Aaron Tippin, The Eagles, The Byrds (extremely sparsely), Waylon, Danny Gatton (very sparsely), Dale Watson, and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

About half of that old country, half is new neo-traditional stuff, and whatever remains is very close to country (3 chords), but with a little distortion.

I suppose I'm just an ignorant kinda guy that likes to stay within his own little safety box.

Heck, I don't know. It's not I try to avoid other music, I just don't go after it. I think that I know what I like and what suits me best so I stick to it, which is probably to my disadvantage.

I have a long way to go if I'm planning to be a professional musician, which I am.


Now it might seem like I am just being a mopey little jerk, complaining about a stupid, almost inconsequential condition that I think exist, even though when one takes a step back there is absolutely no problem because all of my basic necessities are taken care of and then some. I would just like to reinforce the idea that I am not complaining, only trying to be critical of myself so I can move forward and not be stagnant anymore.

Maybe I should've put this in bad dog...

[BB]

Originally Posted by Lerb21

I picked up the guitar and played for a little bit, enjoying my simple twangy Buck Owens and Dwight Yoakam leads.

Your satement above says it best. Not every guitar player can be Brent Mason. We all bring something different to the table playing wise, style wise and tone wise, (thank goodness!) so take pride in the fact you enjoy what you play and play what you enjoy. You are 17 bro....plenty of time to hone those chops!

[Spidercaster]

I wouldn't worry about it, or be so hard on yourself. I've seen your Youtube clips, and you should give yourself more credit for your abilities. There's a whole world of music to listen to besides Hendrix, if you want to widen your musical scope of reference.
Find someone you like in a different genre and then try to incorporate some of what they do, with the Don Rich stuff. Hang in there!!!!

[Budda]

Well, sounds like you're already doing pretty well!

But if you want to expand your playing, maybe you need to make some specific goals.

A "Professional Musician". What exactly does this mean to you? Playing Lead in local bars and clubs? Touring with a national act? Being a studio rat? Playing multiple Instruments?

More specifics are probably a good thing to assess now.

P.S.

LEARN TO SING COMPETENTLY. No more putting it off! It'll help your musicianship, playing, and get you a lot more gigs.

Do it, Bro. TODAY!

:)

[Tele Joe]

Hey man it's good you set high standards for yourself believe me that will take you far. Look on the bright side, you are 17, most likely still in high school and you know what you want to do with your life. Look at me, I'm 27, played saxophone my whole childhood. Went to college for music, changed majors to finance and have worked miserable as a financial analyst wishing I never quit music. But I try and look at the bright side. I'm still 27, i've been playing guitar for a couple years and I understand my music theory. My dreams of being a professional on tour musician have faded but now i'd be content to one day just be a gigging musician while giving lessons on the side and maybe doing some guitar tech work. Just being around music is fantastic and i'm working hard to one day make it into a career.

You are 17. If you want to be a professional musician don't let anythiing get in your way. Keep setting high standards. Build your chops by practicing correct picking and finger techniques and you'll get the speed. Don't get lazy with your practicing. Instead of falling into that same old rhythm of playing try and really structure your practice time and work on the things you need to. I played guitar for years before I really started to structure my practice time and then it's amazing how much better you get. Natural ability only gets you so far.

It's not bad to SOMETIMES get down on yourself and feel inferior. I guarantee you Brad Paisley and Brent Mason still strive to be better players and that's what sets the really good from the greats.

[Dirty Steve]

Originally Posted by Lerb21

I just sat down taking a shower, trying to get the sparkles off me. I let my mind wander for a while, doing the BS I normally do. Check the TDPRI ...

So, you visit the TDPRI sat in the shower, covered in sparkles? Am I old-fashioned or is everyone doing this?

Everything is relative. Put your time in, play the hand you're dealt, do your best and don't think too much!

[brewwagon]

lerb just

....be all that you can be !!!

& i ain't talking about joining up with gi joe ( the us army with all respects to those in service)


bw

[bootlegger1929]

Ok. Here's the thing. You're young. You have time. You know what you want.
It's good to ask yourself the questions you are asking yourself. But here's something a good friend always told me when I was learning guitar (but we're always learning right?), ENJOY THE JOURNEY. Not the band, well you can if you want to but that's not exactly my cup o' tea.. jk.

Anyway, your tastes will change, probably. So the music you like now you may not like 2 years down the road. Or you may still enjoy it but expand to other things. You may even one day like Jimi. I can say from experience, I thought I hated Jimi Hendrix as a kid. I just didn't get it. I didn't like the blues. I didn't like country. I only listened to hard rock and jam music. Then things changed. I literally listen to as much music I can now regardless of genre, except for most newer poppy country and a lot of what's on the radio.. which I can't really say now that a ton of my favorite bands in the "indie music scene" are now on the radio.

Point is. Times change. People change. Don't count yourself out of that and as I said before (and I think this need reiterating) ENJOY THE JOURNEY!

/rant.

[brokenjoe]

Ah... the old 'what's the point? I'll never be as good as those guys' thoughts!

I've been playing 30 some years now, and it still sneaks up on me from time to time.

Here's a thought: Just try to be the best that YOU can be. Just try to realize your full potential. None of use ever really do, mind you, but our efforts and perseverance brings us closer and closer.

As for broadening your horizons, look for some of the guys who influenced your heroes. Find out who they liked and listened to, and check it out.

I'm sure that you know that Don Rich was a fine fiddler as well. Ever think of learning some fiddle licks on your tele? Ever think of swiping some of those great pedal steel licks that are all over those Buckaroos records and transposing them to guitar? You'd be amazed at how quickly it can add to your 'tool box.'

You're doing the right thing by analyzing your own playing -as painfully hard as that may be. Find out what your weaknesses are, and zero in on 'em. A lot of guys never do; and they're usually the guys who are wondering why they can't do a particular riff, or phrase.

And above all: Have fun! We don't work music, we play music!

[e-merlin]

Every area of interest has something similar to what you're feeling, Lerb.

Writers call it writers block.

It's just burnout. You've been focused on one thing for so long that your brain has just shut down and will no longer process the info.

It's time to put the guitar down for a week and do something else. And, I don't mean learn Jimi Hendrix licks or Eddie Van Halen licks. Put down the guitar and do something else.

Next week, when you pick up the guitar, your brain will be back in synch with your fingers.

Olympic weight lifters don't lift for records every day. They do keep in shape by lifting lighter weights, but they do other excercises so they don't ruin their muscles for what they are aiming.

When an athelete reaches the burnout point, they do something else.

[Spidercaster]

Originally Posted by Lerb21

That means I'm almost like an (geek reference) Orc or Troll from Middle-Earth.....

I knew exactly what you were referencing! I guess I'm not just a tele-geek any more.

[getbent]

Lerb,

for me it all comes back to Ricky Nelson...



Figure you need 10K hours to get to mastery. You probably have a couple of thousand hours in.... there is no rush... there is just the steady, fun walk up the hill.

While speed will come for you, it is just a tool of conveyance and everyone will tell you that it is the quality of the note in context that matters. Keep reaching but realize that it is the playing that matters and the open eyes and ears that keep learning. As much as folks will compare this guy to that.... the really good ones are moved and inspired by other players but they neither want to be them nor compete with them....

"you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself."

and if you work on your singing you'll get to pick the tunes.... that is a really good idea.

[barncat]

As other posters have mentioned, you are 17 and just at the beginning of your playing career, and you are far ahead of what me and probably a lot of other people could play at that age (I didn't even start playing 'til I was 16). It's natural to imititate players you admire when you are starting out, Ray Charles was a Nat King Cole clone untill he found his own syle. And if you really want to build up your speed, You can do that with practice. You may not ever play as fast as Johnny Hiland, but guitar playing isn't all about that anyway. Also, you have your songwriting and singing which you can develop. There's nothing to worry about, relax and let your music take its own course. And don't ever lose track of why you play music in the first place, and that is, or should be because its fun.

[F6_FullMelt]

You're seventeen - you have so many years ahead of you my friend. You don't have to like lots of genres of music to be a great guitar player... but it HELPS to KNOW the similarities between them. I think incorporating a technique somewhere it doesn't "belong" is one of the most fun things about playing the guitar. Don't try to be anyone, just play what you like and try to make the noises you wish your gear would make. Tone is in the passion, and skillful/original playing falls in where there is love for the act.

[buddywayne]

Lerb, Look at what you've done already. Your work on the learn Don's licks post was phenomenal. I envy your talents and dedication. Take five man. In my opinion you are pro already.

[BB]

As others have said, while it's great to have a destination, enjoy the journey. That's where the life is!

[F6_FullMelt]

Originally Posted by BB

As others have said, while it's great to have a destination, enjoy the journey. That's where the life is!

Life is what happens while you are making plans!

[ryokan]

"And then I think about it some more. Even if I was a perfect copy, what good would that be? We already had one Don, and he was magic when coupled with Buck and only Buck. That and the fact that Don wasn't trying to be anybody but Don Rich. In a way, I am a parasite on the legacy of Don Rich and Buck Owens."

All artists are 'parasites'. We attempt to copy other artists who really get us going, but inevitably our attempts come out slightly different. This is how art is created. There would be no Captain Beefheart without Howlin' Wolf. There would be no Jimi Hendrix without Curtis Mayfield. We build on the work of those before us. So, you can describe this as being a 'parasite', but that's a pretty negative description of what is going on. I would say you are 'filtering'. And man, you are only 17! Give it some time, everything you are learning now will come out in a unique way eventually...

[klasaine]

You play good and you're into good music.
I think the best way to "open up" a little bit would be to get in a band that's out of your comfort zone. You'll probably find a lot of things to like that will in turn slowly make there way into and hence become part "your thing". And none of this has to be an instant transformation - you're 17 - chances are it will happen all by itself (the fact that you're even thinking about it means it's already happening). Everybody gets bored, changes, moves on and then sort of makes their way back with new found treasures in tow. In a musician's case, that would be influences.

[Leon Grizzard]

I looked at the list of what you listen to, and there is a lot more than minor pentonic playing going on. There's plenty to learn within your ouvre. That is one of the cool, and daunting things about Country - you have to know so mcuh - swing, fiddle tunes, major pentatonic, harmonized scales and on and on. Get with it.

[voodoostation]

You're a helluva better player than you think you are. You know what you like and that's a good thing. I'd love to play those fast, shredding licks like Brent and Brad and the others, but I'm pretty content with the speed I have now. I like their styles but they aren't mine. Like Leon said about country music, it's a pretty wide genre. Try checking out Pandora.com. when you get a chance. Music site, free, just set up an account and plug in your favorite artists or songs. It'll throw in stuff related to your likes and you can "yay" or "nay" it. You may find something you'll like, it's got a pretty large database.

[Larry F]

Originally Posted by klasaine

(the fact that you're even thinking about it means it's already happening).

Yup. You are becoming aware of the power of self-criticism. It is an important tool for an artist. You need to listen to your criticisms and address the areas that you feel you are weak in. One example is transposition. The fact that you criticized your habit of playing in only one or two keys means you are ready to become familiar with all keys. We all had to do it, and now it is time for you to join the club. I can play and speak the names of the notes of, say, the IV chord in all 12 keys as fast as my mouth can form the words. That is the basis of the Nashville system.

[JayFreddy]

You already play the Don Rich stuff well enough to convince a bunch of weekend warriors that you know what you're doing, but the truth is you know better. Time to take it to the next level.

Spend a year or two doing Brent Mason, convincingly... Then you'll be ready to start learning Hendrix! (just kidding...)

Seriously, you could be a very good player but you're nowhere near where you wanna be and/or should be. Take time off? I don't think so. I'd say it's time to get serious about that metronome you keep meaning to use...

Don't listen to people who tell you that you are already great, you know better.

Now get to work!

[Diamond Jim]

Originally Posted by Lerb21

That means I'm almost like...an Elvis Impersonator. Nothing more than a crappy emulation of something better.

One of the best shows I've ever seen featured three different Elvis impersonators. I look at what they do as a tribute to a great artist.

That's also how I look at what you do with your emulation of Don.

Twang on,

Jim

[Lerb21]

Thanks for all the sound advice guys...

This weekend (after a few more days of no guitar) I'm planning on sitting down with some records and backing tracks and seeing what I can do with them as Clint, not as Clint emulating Don.

See how far I've come and how far I have to go...

[klasaine]

Here's another 'start' ...
Change your signature line to "is it okay TO like ______ ?"

[tele salivas]

Wher's the great Ernest Tubb, Goerge Jones and Ray Price and the countless boys and men who were Troubadours, Jonesboys and Cherokee Cowboys? and Shame of all Shames, whers ol' Hank and his Drifting Cowboys...yes sir, you have a lot to learn...you think a man and woman are making love or dancing 240 beats per minute? or is ther a rythm that makes your blood thump? Listen to some of Roy Nichols early stuff, was it smooth as silk , or ragged, down and dirty? Also, thanks for everything as far as the Buck, Waylon and Luther stuff, Penta is good enough for our armed forces, it'll sure kick the hell out of some country guitar...you are alright hoss, you are alright you give a lot more than you realiz...do you know that alot of your favorite pickers and steelers know lots of jazz chord/melody? take you to a whole nother level my friend, whole 'nother level

[tele salivas]

also, you can never stop, there is no "how far I have to go" you shoot for the moon , and there's mars, you shoot for mars and there's jupiter, you shoot for jupiter and there's uranus...

[drewsblues]

I go through this all the time, Lerb (is it Wednesday, yet?). Hang in there.

Times like this, when I don't know what the heck I want to do, I'll focus exclusively on technique. Boring, yes, but it keeps my hands on the instrument without worrying about the fact that I'm playing the same three chords, or I'm playing the same old blues, or I'm stuck in pentatonic purgatory, or whatever. And, dude... I'm 39.

It never goes away. Best to learn to deal with it at an early age.

When you're going through a "what does it all mean?" phase, make the best of of it and focus on scales, technique, or anything that is genre agnostic. Try learning some Jazz standards ("Autumn Leaves" is a good place to start). If necessary, focus on them as clinical exercises. You'll be surprised what it does for your soul, without you even realizing it.

The last thing I'd recommend is to get out and play with others. Even if it's your usual repertoire. The "other humans" element -- and just having fun -- works wonders to get you out of a funk.

Good luck. You're a good player. You need to be out there playing. The world needs it!

[IggyT]

Lerb, I too have gone through these periods of "doubt"...once the guitar stayed in its case in a damp basement for a year or two untouched...I was about 28 with two kids etc etc and the music biz was for "young kids"and felt like I had given it my best shot and came up empty....then I took the guitar out when some young grad students arrived where I was working ...we started jamming with a band and I was playing again...I relied on my blues (and primitive country) background but in all those years I now appreciated Thelonius Monk and weird scales...and these things started to creep in...even weird percussive pick attack and "noises" that drive people nuts but thats me! and not any other player...I can do mediocre Clapton but I prefer playing my own tunes my way...now my way has never paid the freight ...but I became a better "musician"....oh yes...learning to sing helps!
iggy

[jazztele]

lerb, i'm late to the party, but i like your playin', and dig your taste in country, so hear me out.

don't ever stray from your influences...they are who you are.

my biggest influences on the guitar, jazz cat i may claim to be, are jerry garcia, and the tandem of thurston moore and lee ranaldo.(sonic youth)

i may have picked up the guitar because of nirvana back in '92, (and no, i'm not embarrased) but thurston and lee were the first guitarists i actively strove to sound like, and jerry was the first guitarist i stole licks from...and you know what?

sometimes, when i'm on a straight up jazz gig, i'll do a little chromatic triplet pull off deal, and the cats i play with will be like, "dude, where'd that come from?" and i'll smile and tell 'em it was a jerry garcia lick.

other times, i'll do a solo gig and f-around with a chord shape, a few open strings, and a few slapped harmonics----and as much as i'd like to take credit for that ingenuity--i know deep down i stole it from thurston or lee...

so dig? you are who you are. don't ever shy away from it--just add on to it. i can admittedly and without consolation say that my guitar style (currently) is a combination of seven or eight "masters" and a healthy dose of "me." there's very little "new" to be done on this instrument...so find out who's "you" and roll with it.

and i don't give a rats ass if yer underage, if you're ever comin' to chi-town, your first beer and a guest spot on a gig of mine is yours, dude...just be forewarned, we're gonna do my version of "mama tried."

[e-merlin]

One thing I want to ask is, how far back before Don have you gone? Don was an innovator in the aspect that he had at his disposal a brand new (relatively) instrument in the solidbody electric guitar.

But where did he come from? Were his influences simply the Country and Western guitarists that came before him? Steel players? Locals? Did Django come into play anywhere in that mix. Might be fun to go back in time to see what a guy with two fingers could really do with six strings. Maybe guys like Earl Scruggs, too. Or Charlie Parker? I really don't know for sure, but there was a lot happening in recorded music from the 1930s to when he came in.

Remember, Don Rich was from a place where recorded music was only in its relative infancy compared to where we are now. He maybe had access to 20 or 30 years of influence, maybe less.

[Warren Pederson]

You are freakin' great. Don't worry. Listen to good 'ol classic country, do you hear guitar pyrotechniques happening? Don't think so. I have no desire to shred, be it blues or country. Flashy shat bores me. I like authentic country and blues, but NOT blues/rock. Keep working on the singing, it's coming along wonderful.

[eddie knuckles]

sounds like you are about to find yourself (personally, professionally, spiritually, AND musically). Do yourself a favor and open the door to your unknown. Don't be afraid, be VERY afraid. Don't be in love, be REALLY in love, don't shuck and jive, woo the girl's till they cry for your independent expression.

Listen to other guitar players
Listen to HORN players
Listen to how the BAND makes the leads sound so cool.

You are on to something here my friend.... go with it, young padawan....

[eddiewagner]

and learn how to sing ! you will always have some money if you can play and sing. all the great guitarplayers sing. some very good, some just growl, some sing weird stuff, but they all sing. i was a "sideman" for singers for a long time. until i sing myself, i feel sooooooo much better. after a short while it get´s´totally natural.

[octatonic]

17 years old?
Go to music school- maybe Berkeley?

[klasaine]

I'm gonna 2nd Octatonic's advice. Berklee in Boston or at the least, a local college's music program to start.

[Spidercaster]

Hey Clint..... any updates? How'd ya make out after a few days off?

[refin]

Simple is good...............

[Lerb21]

Originally Posted by Spidercaster

Hey Clint..... any updates? How'd ya make out after a few days off?

I'm still trying to sort this all out...

But I've made a few decisions.

I going to keep playing what makes me happy, be it Don Rich, Luther Perkins, Pete Anderson, or Roy Nichols...

But like I said, whatever makes me happy... and I do like a challenge.

I've realized that one cannot take a giant leap from Don to Brad. That's like going from Go Karts to Nascar (no offense to Don, he's awesome).

I'm going to shoot that TV video this Sunday, and I'm just gonna be myself. Not Clint Erb as Don Rich. Just Clint Erb as Clint Erb, a guy who was influenced by many, including Don Rich, but knows he ain't.

I'll keep you guys posted.

I'm feeling a lot better.

Oh and on a side note, I tabbed out Chapparal today and for all you naysayers, it was tough as hell!

All of those goofy sounding instrumentals Don are sure tough!

I'm also working on my Pedal Steel Guitar chops too, gonna transfer some licks over to the guitar...