Untangling The Web Of Two Guitars

[Ansikter]

I've been playing in a group for the last few months. Here's the layout: The singer and songwriter of the group plays
acoustic rhythm, we have a bassist who does some backup vocals and I'm playing a CV tele and do some vocals as well.
We're doing gospel music so it all has it's roots in country music but none of us really come from that background.
The singer is older and he sort of rode in on the first way of rock n roll, the bassist and I are both in our mid-twenties.
We've both been in rock bands so we're as familiar with Guns N Roses as we are George Jones (but we're not rock guys trying to play country, or country guys playing rock, just musicians exposed to alot of different music.) Recently we found another guitarist, also playing a tele, who plays some really good pedal steel as well.
(By the way I just wrote that it was gospel so you will know that it's a song based project, we're not stuck playing I-IV-I-V
all the time but we do have to serve the song and the lyric, ya know?)

Here's where the questions begin. I'm a pretty basic player, I try to be song oriented. I mostly try to add to the sound without with flashing all over the place, I play lead when I have to and rhythm-wise I play alot of simple inversions (not jazz stuff), picking through chords, just whatever is necessary. The other guitarist is more of a straight up country player, it seems, who plays lead as well and does a lot of licks in the gaps.

How do we play around each other without playing all over the other one? I'll play as simple as I need to but I don't want to just hit each chord and let it ring out til the next change. It seems as though both of us need to play less than we normally would.
Would both of us playing a fraction of what we normally would work? Do we stay on two different ends of the neck? haha. I don't know.


What about tone? We should sort of compliment each other tonally and in volume, right? Any ideas? I know it can be done but two telecasters
seem like a whole lotta tele.

There's really a hundred more questions I could ask but I'll let it be for now. I know it's of a complicated set of questions (especially over the internet) and I'm not asking for any one size fits all answer but if you have any wisdom or experience to impart that would be awesome.
-Manny

[Chris Clemens]

There are enough (known) bands who have more then one Tele. If you ask me, it's the tonal difference and style wich alow you to do this.

You will probebly recognize that you both have other heroes. If you know this, you will be able to respect and even help with the other guitarist's tone...

[brokenjoe]

It's called orchestration. Subject to taste and interpretation.

You're certainly on the right track by thinking of playing for the song. That's what makes a great band.

There are hundreds of ways of going about this. The Rolling Stones have songs where both Wood and Richards are playing completely independent lines and parts, but the sum product sounds great.
AC/DC does a lot of stuff where the brothers are both playing the same rhythm parts and that too sounds great.
There are other iconic albums that have tons of guitar tracks on them -some parts doubled; some parts doubled at the octave; and some parts that solo over the entire song. The rhythm/lead thing works great too if both guitarists know how to use their volumes properly and respective of the song.

I would suggest that you get together with the other guitar player and discuss parts for the songs, and decide collectively what works best.

[Leon Grizzard]

So you really have three guitars. Is the acoustic player playing bass note strum, or just strumming? If he just strums, one electric can do bass strum and other more decorative or fills. Stay out of each others part of the neck. If one person plays down in the lower part of the range, the other can play just the middle and top strings higher up. Or swap off rhythm and fills with each verse, or on the chorus. Make the other guy play more steel, with nice pads.

With two guitars, sounds like a good chance to play some harmonized lines, like playing intros by playing the melody of the last line of the verse or chorus, harmonized. That is a lot of fun, and very cool sounding. On Gospel, you might want to do that as instrumental breaks, playing a whole verse that way.

[Don Miller]

Ive been working on just this thing. I play sometimes with a guy who cant-wont play anything less than full 6 string chords and it drives me nuts...

Sometimes its helpful to listen to multiple guitar songs thru headphones...the early Eagles or Buffalo Springfield for instance...and try to follow what one guitar does thru the song..alot of those older recordings had alot of separation so adjusting the balance helps bring out one part over another...its really neat how simple parts...singles notes or double stops can combine....learn a bunch of them...alot of those parts are transferable...so the sliding 3rds-6ths thing over a I-IV you copped off an Eagles album will likely fit somewhere else without sounding like a direct quote...

Leon had some great suggestions...and sometimes hitting the chord and letting it ring is the best thing you can do..a little phase-tremelo-chorus, etc and you got a nifty part without stepping all over the other players

[the embezzler]

Lots of good ideas mentioned here already so 'll be brief....

I play part-time in a soul covers band with horns and am one of 2 guitar players.
We both play Tele's.
We haven't really discussed it a whole lot but what seems to happen is one of us will either know the song in question better than the other one, or one of us kind of just takes charge on the main guitar part straight away.
Then the other guy will just play around that main part; that could mean doubling the bassline, doubling the riff in harmony a third up (which can be super cool if done sparsely and with taste) or maybe playing some stabby, complimentary chord part.
Tremolo and reverb can be very handy for defining parts in a twin guitar attack.

You just have to be mindful of not getting in the other guys way too much.

Hope this helps.

[boneyguy]

Think of how a symphony orchestra handles the same problem.

1. Everyone doesn't have to be playing all the time.
2. Don't all play the same chord on the same area of the neck at the same time.
3. Play single note or double stop 'chords' and figures when playing rhythm
4. Find a tone that's distinct and complimentary to the other guitars.

Again, think like an orchestral arranger and you'll discover all kinds of simple tricks that can make it work.

[jhundt]

I played in a band like that once.

Singer/songwriter with great songs, but he always bashed away on an acoustic - full open chords most of the time.

Me on "rhythm electric guitar", Telecaster of course!

The other guy on 100% play-something-every-second hey-they-should-pay-me-by-the-note-I'd-be-a-millionaire!! "lead guitar".

I played a lot of low-down slow-down spaghetti-western kind of stuff. Sometimes I would capo up high and play some little finger-picky stuff that added something like a 12-string effect (in the studio I would use a Nashville high-string acoustic).

Unfortunately, no matter what I came up with, the other guy would pick it up and begin using it in his performance. He was a great guy, I really liked him, but man he was frustrating!

In the end I found that I could turn my volume down completely and strum away happily, grinning like I was in the Partridge Family. I could make a bit of a show out of it, work up some stage antics that pleased the audience... sometimes I would have a chat with my pal the bass player.

After a while I left the band, but it was certainly a learning experience, and it became quite amusing trying to figure out how to spend my time on stage.

[Ansikter]

Thanks for all the replys. Seen some good suggestions and a lot of food for thought. I definitely like have two guitars playing two different things, dealing more in shades and colorings than in your face playing. (Steel is a really good instrument for this ,IMO, when it's not so much a lead instrument) I've done a lot more recording than I have playing live in the last 5 years or so and when you're dealing in subtleties it seems to hold up better and stay fresh longer.
of course there's exceptions but you get my drift.

I do understand what The Embezzler was saying, usually there is a de facto leader of the song to some extent. Sort of figure out who's going to work the gas and who's going to steer. I think another problem is when you start to recognize overplaying and then try to correct it, it feels awkward. 'Cause face it, most of us, when we were learning, played the instrument from the time we picked it up to the time we put it down. So we're sort of programmed to 'As long as this instrument is in my hands I have to play.'


But it's as much about what you don't play as what you do. You ever met some one who just kept talking and talking and they did it the point you tuned out? Before *they* were done they may have ended up saying something extremely brilliant but it doesn't matter if it's five minutes after you quit listening. You can do the same with guitar, or any instrument. You get right up in someones face long enough eventually they are going to turn their back to you.


Personally, I don't have have enough 'flash' to get right in your face and dazzle you. I've had to think of another approach.
A knew this one guy who could play circles around me. He had way more natural talent than I have. But you put him in a song and he was useless. All of that talent went from either extreme over playing or to playing basic rhythm that anyone else could play. You really couldn't get anything usable from him.
So my idea is stay out of their face as much as possible and try to get under their skin... in a good way ha. Take them where you want them to go with binding and gagging them, haha.

[Guran]

I get the impression that you're already on the right track.

One somewhat simplified way to handle it could be like this. EQ the acoustic so that it doesn't take up too much sonic space, so that it becomes mostly a rhythm instrument. By that I don't mean rhythm as in "not solo" but as in rhythm. The strumming is what you want to hear, not so much the tonal aspects of the instrument. That puts the acoustic clearly in the rhythm section, where an acoustic can add lots of texture.

One electric plays between the nut and fifth or seventh fret approximately, bridge pickup, doing the Luther Perkins/Don Rich kind of stuff (or flashier stuff if desired, just stay out of the vocals space).

The other electric plays from fith fret and up, middle or neck position, and plays little inversions, double stops, chord fragments, faux steel bends and such. This is where you add atmosphere. This is where you get under their skins.

I love to be in this role. Play so little and add so much. When you can play softly and still be heard, you know you've found your spot. After a while you may even start feeling very cool, just by playing very little.

Oh, and a good amp at the verge of breakup makes it even more fun.

For variation, add some tremolo to either of the guitars and let it play even less. Just let a low down root note or a three string chord further up ring. Don't use tremolo on both guitars simultanously though!

[Bandit]

Just a thought.
Put a capo on one Tele. Then even if your playing the same chord it sounds different.