Arm Strength - Part 1

[jsntg]

When I blow a note it's usually because I missed the string with the pick or the pick got hung up. Aim seems to improve with regimented practice but getting the pick across the string - especially when picking close and fast - seems to be more a function of strength.

Scientific literature suggests there is a correlation between strength and fine motor coordination. In guitar world, there is the presumption that hand / arm strength is useful if not necessary for peak performance. Thus, numerous finger, wrist and forearm exercisers on the market, each claiming the benefit of strength.

Looking through the hyperbolic generalities, strength does seem to make sense. When I substitute a pick cut from a magazine cover for my extra heavy pick, I can play much faster and cleaner.

Regardless, I've committed to building arm strength - specifically, the muscles that control the wrist movement since this is where most of my pick movement comes from. I wasn't really up for cluttering my life with more stuff to further my goal (gym memberships, dumbbells, exercise gadgets, etc.), so I've devised a set of exercises using an object close at hand :-]

First basic wrist picking motion (think waving hello) - radial deviates (abducts)

Neutral Position


Extended


As I am going for explosive strength (acceleration versus endurance) I'm doing 3 sets maxing out after 8-10 reps. Choke up or down to vary the load.

Next are the muscles that bring the wrist back in the same plane - ulnar deviates (adducts)

Neutral position


Extended


I try and keep my upper arm stabilized to isolate the flexors. Again choke up or down to control the load.

Continued...

[jsntg]

Now for wrist flex (think wrist curl up) - flexes

Neutral position:


Extended:


Now forearm rotation (think turning a door knob) - pronates

Neutral


Extended


Do this with both palm up and palm down. Also you can invert the guitar (body up) to work the biceps brachi. Again 3 sets of 8-10 reps to failure. Choke up or down to change load.

Hugh

[J.S. Bach]

I... can't think of anything to say. lol Softer pick? lol! you're a madman!!! Work it!

[Detman101]

Wow, I never considered using my axe to work out my hand and wrist...

I'm completely flabbergasted!

=o
Dm

[tele salivas]

does swinging a hammer at my day job count, tacking sheet rock? pint curls? stick to the easy stuff, like pickin and grinnin

[J-man]

I would've thought doing that was really bad for your wrist..

[Ricky D.]

I'm sorry, but I can just visualize some unintended consequences for that guitar waving around while you work on your explosive acceleration. One slip... . If I wanted to do those exercises, I would use a hammer. Dirt cheap, available in a wide variety of weights, and dual purpose.

Consider devising some streching exercises targeting the same muscles. The weight work tears down the muscle a little, and it will tend to shorten and tighten when it heals.

But really, aren't you strong enough now? I could be wrong, and it's possible you'll prove me wrong, but I would expect better results from devoting my time to speed and dexterity proficiency exercises on a consistent daily basis.

[Larry F]

Nice! I am very interested in this. I noticed the effects of strength on speed myself. I had a lot of technique when I was younger as a Mahavishnu-wanna-be. After coming back to guitar after 25 years, I just couldn't make those fingers and the right hand get to where I wanted them to go. There are coordination problems because the hands aren't in sync, brain-wise is my understanding, and there are coordination problems because one hand won't get there fast enough. I did a lot of traveling this spring and took one of those rubber donuts with me. I can say that helped my playing more than anything I have done in the last three years. I made my faster progress with having more strength in my left hand/arm. I'm going to give your exercises a shot.

[PennyCentury]

That's an excellent justification to acquire another Tele!

"Honey, I need another one to build up my picking arm!"

LOL

[Big John]

Is it April 1st already ?

Thats just more than a little whacko isn't it ?

I'm not proud to say i have the arm strength of a sickly gnat but it hasn't stopped me nipping around the fretboard hell for leather and certainly doesn't impinge on my pick and finger technique !

I just get visons of someone jumping on this hell for leather and doing themselves a serious injury (no, i'm not joking).
How heavy is that thing for a start, we talk enough here about various weights of Tele's, i had a Burton sig model that if you did this you would dislocate something very painful !!

Seems its life today though, no-one wants to take responsibility or work for something, they just want it NOW.
Sorry to be a misery but look, if your pick technique sucks (nothing bad in admitting that) work on your picking technique don't expect this to fix it !!
OK, so i do all the exercises and my picking technique still sucks ....... then who do i blame. ?

[Ron Garson]

Would I expect the same improvement from picking up pints of beer?

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Ron Garson

Would I expect the same improvement from picking up pints of beer?

You'd be safer and when you are done the guitar will seem a whole lot easier to play (to you), not exactly sure about your picking tech though

Maybe not wearing gloves helps ?

[Leon Grizzard]

Originally Posted by Big John

I'm not proud to say i have the arm strength of a sickly gnat but it hasn't stopped me nipping around the fretboard hell for leather and certainly doesn't impinge on my pick and finger technique !

I would think you big guys have a certain amount of stregth from having big, even if unpumped, muscles.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

I would think you big guys have a certain amount of stregth from having big, even if unpumped, muscles.

Yeah, and thats what every drunk thinks too but t'aint true

I have a wonderful D18 Martin but it has to be 'Martin lights' for me i'm afraid, i'm not complaining though, i can do everything i want to do and a little in reserve and i can do it all night so i guess you don't have to have the arms of Schwarzenneger to play a Tele.

Repeat after me, T-E-C-H-N-I-Q-U-E ................. W-O-R-K

[Leon Grizzard]

Or maybe think how even more nimble you would be with a well-tone wrist. Even some our famous American baseball players have gotten bigger and faster and stroger with dedicated weight training. Ain't that true, A-Rod and Barry Bonds?

[octatonic]

I am going to assume the OP isn't making an elaborate joke.

There is no real benefit to guitar playing from lifting weights.

Resistance training has a lot of life benefits though and generally a good idea- but I wouldn't be using a 7lb telecaster.
Way too light unless you are a 90lb girl.
Even then.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

Or maybe think how even more nimble you would be with a well-tone wrist. Even some our famous American baseball players have gotten bigger and faster and stroger with dedicated weight training. Ain't that true, A-Rod and Barry Bonds?

We are talking 'picking technique' though Leon, not big, fast ball players, of course, if i could sprint out the window in the ladies toilet even quicker when the fight starts i might give it a go

Like LarryF i had to relearn alot of muscle stuff after hospital, i was sedated for 3 1/2 weeks and when i started coming round had virtually no movement in my arms and legs due to wastage.
The physio's got me working pretty quickly but they showed me it's not just strength, you have to have finesse too and it's the same with your guitar, after an initial "what do i do with this thing?" feeling (that was mentally very scary !!) i found speed and stamina came back fairly quickly, before i could even walk without a stick i could rattle out my usual stuff on the guitar but once i could hack away at it it was the finesse that came back with work
.

No shortcuts Leon and i know that you know that !!

[Leon Grizzard]

Originally Posted by Big John

No shortcuts Leon and i know that you know that !!

Rats.

[boneyguy]

Just don't do the exercises with a Les Paul. Look what happened to me!!

[TelZilla]

I would think your time would be better spent practicing whatever it is you want to play. To my mind, you'd be strentghtening whatever muscles you use to play and practicing.

[klasaine]

General physical health and strength is beneficial to working at your potential for anything. But unless you're recovering from an injury and/or you have abnormal weakness in your arms and wrists(?), that's not going to do anything but probably 'warm you up' at that moment - which will probably help you to play faster and more accurately at that moment. (Those finger exercisers and squeezing a ball do the same thing - they warm you up.)
Scales and arpeggios blah, blah, blah ... PRACTICE!
There's really nothing like guitar playing to make your wrists and forearms strong.
*Look at all those skinny little rocker dudes that shred ala Randy Rhoads.

[winny pooh]

I back octatonic on this, he is a pretty strong dude and should know.
My own opinion is that strenth is not co-ordination and co-ordination is what counts. I also double bass and to a degree on an instrument like that some strength is necessary in addition to co-ordination, but its not the overriding thing. Keep practising and the necessary strength will come proportionate to practise time.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by winny pooh

I back octatonic on this, he is a pretty strong dude and should know.
My own opinion is that strenth is not co-ordination and co-ordination is what counts. I also double bass and to a degree on an instrument like that some strength is necessary in addition to co-ordination, but its not the overriding thing. Keep practising and the necessary strength will come proportionate to practise time.

:-)

Guthrie Govan says that 'speed is a by-product of accuracy'.
One of the most helpful things I've read about guitar playing.

I am lifting much lighter weights than guys in the gym who are a lot smaller than I am.

There are a lot of parallels between weight training and guitar practice in this.

It is all 'technique'.

(Now especially here in the UK the word 'technique gets a bad rap. A lot of players hear the word and immediately get the Satriani/Vai/Petrucci/Malmsteen image in their head.)

When I see a lot of people both in the gym and as guitar players applying poor technique (bodybuilders call it 'form').
Guitar playing is one thing- you can get a small amount of discomfort from poor technique on a guitar.

When it comes to weight lifting it is a whole different kettle of fish.
You can seriously hurt yourself lifting weights incorrectly- I should know.
I tore my rotator cuff when I was younger- I didn't know what I was doing, was working with weights that were way too heavy for me and in order to get them up I had to twist my body.
You can work out what happened after that.

Unfortunately it is very common.

My personal belief is anyone who wants to get into weight training properly should see a personal trainer until they learn how to lift weights correctly by themselves. It might be expensive but it is a hell of a lot cheaper than the several operations I've had.

[Leon Grizzard]

Answering seriously, I would think strength conditioning would in fact improve your guitar playing; it is true of every every sport that I know of, and maybe because these are smaller muscles it is different, but I can't think of why that would be. Runners get faster when they weight train. Why wouldn't your hands and fingers get faster? Certainly endurance would improve, and I find my hands crapping out at the end of three hours of playing. I agree that repitition of the tasks at hand is much more important, but I wouldn't just write off a little more strength as being useless.

[klasaine]

I don't think any of us are writing off the 'strength' thing. Just saying that it's the least of one's concerns (unless, as I mentioned previously, you're overcoming an injury or debilitation). The problem with stuff like this or the commercial 'finger exercisers' is that folks use these things to supplant practice.

This is what they teach you when you study, (study seriously), classical guitar ...

"To fret notes cleanly we not only need strength, but also accuracy and flexibility. If we are not accurate with where we place our fingers then the note will not sound cleanly, no matter how much pressure we use. In fact most people when they first pick up the guitar use too much force.

When we learn something new we are tense. However tension inhibits muscle movement. To move hands flexibly, cleanly and accurately on the guitar requires relaxation - the muscles must be soft.

If you are continuously practicing strengthening exercises there is a danger of developing muscle overuse syndrome or repetitive strain injury - RSI. If you ever you feel pain in your wrist arms or fingers, STOP!

The idea is to release as much tension as possible – this is how we really begin to learn. Become aware of tension in different parts of your body and try to release. The fingers are attached to the body which is attached to the brain. Relax the brain – relax the body - relax the fingers."

You WILL get all the strength you need if you work on accuracy, tone production, playing in time, etc. and do it for a couple of hours a day. It's kind of an age old prescription.

Again ... strength training done properly can't hurt and it may help in the case of injury. And it may help minutely if you also practice.
*I also believe that the strength training can suffice as a warm-up.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

Answering seriously, I would think strength conditioning would in fact improve your guitar playing; it is true of every every sport that I know of, and maybe because these are smaller muscles it is different, but I can't think of why that would be. Runners get faster when they weight train. Why wouldn't your hands and fingers get faster? Certainly endurance would improve, and I find my hands crapping out at the end of three hours of playing. I agree that repitition of the tasks at hand is much more important, but I wouldn't just write off a little more strength as being useless.

Well it won't hurt- but it is a different group of muscles or some muscles used differently.

As Klasaine says- it is a light touch that you need more than brute strength.
Think of playing a musical instrument akin to playing table tennis rather than power lifting, running, long jump, kick boxing etc.

I am sure that a table tennis champion would go to the gym and do some resistance training, but it wouldn't be the most important thing in their training program.

I am not against weight training in any way, shape or (correct) form- it is one of the best things a person can do for themselves when done properly, but the effect on my guitar playing has been pretty minimal.

Now, diet- that is a different thing all together.
Should we get into that?

[Larry F]

Here are some things that I think require strength: holding a bend; holding a barre chord; trills with the fourth finger for a couple of bars or so. These are obvious to me. Could there be things that do require strength that are not obvious?

As I've said before, I used to be a kind of hot shot player before giving up the guitar in 1978. I started playing again three years ago have made enough progress to sit in with a band the other night and not seem to stink up the place too much. But I remember a few years ago working on bends, trying to hit exactly the right note. I also remember very clearly that if I held a bend too long, or did too many bends in a short amount of time, that I couldn't hit the note at all. My bend finger would cramp up and become weak for a minute or so. I have improved a lot in that area, but there is still a point at which cramping happens. Believe me, stretching did not improve this. Maybe cramping is the wrong word. What is that happens when you can't a lift a weight has too many reps. That feeling is what I am talking about. The hand seems to become very weak after too many bends.

I got a great rubber donut that I use a lot. This spring, I drove to 5 conferences in the midwest, with each trip taking 4-7 hours. I worked with the rubber donut almost every minute I was in the car. When I got home and started playing again, I distinctly noticed that so many aspects of my playing had improved faster and farther in this 2-month traveling period that at any time, even when I was practicing 4-5 hours a day. I should note that the things I teach my fingers and right hand to do are basically the same things that I had, well, mastered is not the word, but I felt that I had reached a comfort level that freed my fingers so that I could start playing from my head without my left hand seizing up.

So, in this 2-month period, what contributed to my improvement that got me farther along in that amount of time than ever before? Well, we could say that I was benefiting from a break from the guitar. From a Thursday to a Sunday, I would only play 1/2 hour to 1 hour in the hotel room. When I got home, I didn't play much more than that, do to crazy school things. Once school settled down and I could focus on my playing, that is when I noticed that so many things that I couldn't play well, were much farther along than ever before. Assuming that I am telling the truth here, what was it that made me better? A break from the guitar, or the rubber donut that I used for, let's see, 5 hours a day for 2 days a week and 1 hour a day for all other days. It seems very clear to me that the rubber donut played a very role in my improvement. My improvement seems to have been in the ability to hit and hold something, or to repeat much faster, cleaner, and longer a series of 2-5 notes. What else could have contributed to this improvement? More or less sleep, road food? I don't see why we can't acknowledge that strength of this kind contributes to better playing, in the areas that I mentioned above, and in related areas. I am not advocating that people stop playing guitar and just sit around with the rubber donut. But using it on a trip for concentrated amounts of time was, I don't know, somewhat as good, or almost as good, or just as good, or better, or way better, or much better than practicing the guitar for an equivalent amount of time. Not wishing to brag, but remember that I was not learning new fingerboard, finger, chord, picking, or strumming patterns that I couldn't do when I was younger. Maybe I am a rare case, since I could already do these things when I was younger.

[surfoverb]

this is amazing! Im worried about symmetry, it seems one would be Popeye in one arm and Olive Oyl in the other.

[klasaine]

I'm sure the muscle building you did this spring helped you to recover what you'd previously learned to do. As I mentioned in other threads, it's all synapse memory, not muscle memory (recent research supports this). You were just out of shape.
So yeah, a little weight training as it were, facilitated the rehabilitation process.

I don't care if you're literally Super Man. If you (the royal you) don't ALSO practice technique along with music, no amount of weight training in your wrists and arms is gonna get you faster or more accurate. I will also add that yes, to some degree, barring and bending take strength initially. It's way more about control (and finesse).
Witness a beginner struggling with their first F chord. They crank down on that fingerboard with enough pressure to almost break a bottle (definitely enough to crush a can) to absolutely no avail. It's not until they learn to control and focus the relatively small amount of strength one needs to play a barre chord that they get it.

[Leon Grizzard]

Originally Posted by Larry F

So, in this 2-month period, what contributed to my improvement that got me farther along in that amount of time than ever before? Well, we could say that I was benefiting from a break from the guitar. From a Thursday to a Sunday, I would only play 1/2 hour to 1 hour in the hotel room. When I got home, I didn't play much more than that, do to crazy school things. Once school settled down and I could focus on my playing, that is when I noticed that so many things that I couldn't play well, were much farther along than ever before. Assuming that I am telling the truth here, what was it that made me better? A break from the guitar, or the rubber donut that I used for, let's see, 5 hours a day for 2 days a week and 1 hour a day for all other days. It seems very clear to me that the rubber donut played a very role in my improvement. My improvement seems to have been in the ability to hit and hold something, or to repeat much faster, cleaner, and longer a series of 2-5 notes. What else could have contributed to this improvement? More or less sleep, road food? I don't see why we can't acknowledge that strength of this kind contributes to better playing, in the areas that I mentioned above, and in related areas. I am not advocating that people stop playing guitar and just sit around with the rubber donut. But using it on a trip for concentrated amounts of time was, I don't know, somewhat as good, or almost as good, or just as good, or better, or way better, or much better than practicing the guitar for an equivalent amount of time.

As I said above, I think strength training, of the right sort, helps athletes in all manner of sports, and there is no reason to think that having the right muscles well toned would help instrumentalists. (How would they do the controlled experiements with rats, though?) But I have found I improved after some layoffs from guitar, also. Maybe it is letting the neural pathways soldify or something.

Did you have a routine with the rubber rings, sets of 10, or what?