most melodic pentatonic guys

[sekt88]

Frank Zappa milked so many melodies for his songs from pentatonics it is mind numbing.

Steve Khan is also a good study for pentatonics.

One can play over the whole Giant Steps progression, for hours with just pentatonics.

[morroben]

I've tried typing this a few different ways and it keeps sounding smug, which is not at all my intent, so please don't take it that way....
What's the point of the pentatonic? Why not just think in major and minor scales? I guess it's just the way I learned, but I don't understand the idea real well. I suppose sometimes I end up leaving the those certain notes out and I end up playing what is the pentatonic scale anyway, but why set out with the idea that you're only going to use these 5 notes?
I hope the question makes sense....

[sekt88]

Originally Posted by morroben

I've tried typing this a few different ways and it keeps sounding smug, which is not at all my intent, so please don't take it that way....
What's the point of the pentatonic? Why not just think in major and minor scales? I guess it's just the way I learned, but I don't understand the idea real well. I suppose sometimes I end up leaving the those certain notes out and I end up playing what is the pentatonic scale anyway, but why set out with the idea that you're only going to use these 5 notes?
I hope the question makes sense....

I agree 100%.

[warmingtone]

Every sequence of notes or scale has a characteristic sound, not from the actual notes, but the gaps between them. Pentatonics have a characteristic sound that is characteristic of several intervals.

Of course, in posts like this and with guitarists in general, there is a lot of emphasis on the pentatonics which may well be misplaced. However the particular set of intervals in the major/minor pentatonics is only one possible intervals set, a set of characteristic M2 & m3 steps.

Now, if you look very broadly there are any number of pentatonic sets in use in other cultures, why does someone in japan say not add more notes, these musics have a continual lineage for thousands of years? Because their pentatonics have a particular sound.

Conversely, your question supposes the major scale and a minor scale...there are lots of minor scales in western music...but to take the argument the other way, why not think of the major and minor scales as the chromatic scale with notes missing also?

I guess because in western music the major scale has a particular importance. However, there are hundreds of scales in use even in western music, all with their own particular "sound" qualities.

So...pentatonic scales have particular qualities, they are interesting in that they have prevailed through numerous genres and over time...recently they found an ancient flute in a cave made from a condor bone, it was tuned to a pentatonic scale...hmmm

Anyway...the point is, the pentatonic scale does have a particular quality and are used a lot and has it's own character...that gives them their own sound. Sure you can subtract from the major or a minor scale, similarly (as in a recent thread) some think of the major scale as a pentatonic with notes "added".

I think when a player or composer sets out to create a pentatonic sound and consistently uses only those notes it does qualify as it's own identifiable scale.

Quite why so many guitar players stop there...is a bit of a mystery...but then a lot of people stop at the major and a minor scale or two...some think almost entirely in terms of extended arpeggios of whatever the prevailing harmony...and so it goes!

Anyway...not smug, and could make an interesting discussion...personally I think that a pentatonic scale has it's own character and is so widely and idiomatically used it is worthy of it's own name and not considered a major or minor scale with notes missing.

But then, in a recent discussion...I didn't think the western "modes" are simply the pentatonic scale with extra notes...or the major scale starting on a different note...but also have their own character by the reorder of the intervals. If it works though, well there's nothing actually "wrong" with how you arrive at it.

[slowpinky]

Originally Posted by DMace

DAVID GILMORE!

Love his playing but for melodic pentatonic stuff David Gilmour's my fave......


sorry couldnt help it.

[cuzzinmark]

Duuaaane! Just as much as Dickey-check out his solo (the first one) in Blue Sky, or Midnight Rider, or the end jam of Why Does Love Got To Be So Sad, where it veers from minor pent to major pent in an instant. Some of my all time favorite playing in that jam...

Jeff Beck-his solo in People Get Ready is all major pent, IIRC...

All mentioned previously in this thread are great, too, I just thought these two needed props...

[Budda]

Don't know if this was already posted or not:

http://vimeo.com/5732745

But, I thought it was very interesting.

[warmingtone]

Interesting Video...but I think the cultural aspects that the comments below it had to offer was even more interesting...

...

A "deeper" idea of why the 'pentatonic scale' has a special identifiable sound and is so adaptable is to look at it "intervallically"

Often scales are "taught" as a set of intervals and stop there, but that is only part of the 'story'.

I have mentioned before that the "common pentatonic scale" is made up of Major second and Minor third intervals. However, another aspect is the possible intervals between "scale tones" both step wise and in leaps.

C major pentatonic = C - D - E - G - A - C

The scale (either major or minor) has inbuilt minor 3rds (eg E-G, A-C) and 2nds (C-D), major thirds are spelled out between consecutive Major 2nds, there are plenty of 4ths and so 5ths (the inversion of 4ths, eg G-C, E-A, A-D)

All these intervals are safe consonant sounds, so you really can't go wrong!

Even without the root of the IV chord that say the major scale provides (the note F) it lacks not only the actual dissonant tones like minor seconds and particularly the tritone and so is justifiably used exclusively in such songs as "Amazing Grace" in a major key and (having trouble thinking of a minor song that's exclusive) or say "summertime" which is pentatonic minor (but for the addition of the second degree towards the end of the melody).

The "pentatonic sound" is so "expected" that we can anticipate that such discordant intervals will be absent and not even implied by the note set. With a full major or minor scale, even if such intervals are not played or avoided, there is always the possibility there that I think the ear can pick up on.

...

So...there are "deeper" reasons for why the pentatonic works as it does and is so pervasive in all kinds of music...not just a major scale with notes missing!

[Rumblebones]

Originally Posted by morroben

I've tried typing this a few different ways and it keeps sounding smug, which is not at all my intent, so please don't take it that way.... What's the point of the pentatonic? Why not just think in major and minor scales? I guess it's just the way I learned, but I don't understand the idea real well. I suppose sometimes I end up leaving the those certain notes out and I end up playing what is the pentatonic scale anyway, but why set out with the idea that you're only going to use these 5 notes?
I hope the question makes sense....

Not smug. Pentatonic scales are a very simple way to get rolling on the guitar.

Truth is, additional notes (flat 5, trills, double stops, etc.) are added once the positions are learned. It's not often one plays a straight vanilla type pentatonic scale. For me the pentatonic is a foundation that gets built upon, so it isn't "only going to use these 5 notes."

Instead of leaving out notes from a standard 7 note scale, notes are added to the scale over time. Kinda opposite of what you mention. Just a different way of playing that has worked well over time.