Blues to jazz

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Tele66

You might enjoy Robben Fords DVD's as well. In particular 'The Blues & Beyond'. He does a great section on 'I Ain't Got Nuthin' But the Blues' which is a great bluesy tune done in a Jazz style (or vice versa!). This is an excellent tune to get used to how the Jazz cats tackle a blues.

On TB&B there is also a section on playing on a groove ala Miles Davis.

Thank you for the recommendation. I ordered it and the DVD is in the mail. I've only very recently become aware of Robben but I think he's great. I'm looking forward to digging into the DVD.

[Gminor7]

For a couple more modern jazz/blues players, listen to Randy Johnston, Peter Bernstein, and Dave Stryker. They don't always play blues, but when they do, they are killing. Especially check out a tune by Stryker called "Our Miss Brooks", on his album "The Chaser". Randy Johnston has a great book out (Mel Bay) called Soul Jazz Guitar - a couple of great blues solos there. Stryker also has a Mel Bay book with a great blues in F solo.
Finally, you need to check out Paul Bollenback, often played with Joey Defrancesco.
I have been trying to develop a jazz-blues vocabulary for many years, and I definitely started with T-Bone, too. A couple of suggestions from major players helped me a lot:

Over any dominant 7/9/13 - think and play minor, or melodic minor up a fifth - over G9, play Dminor scales, arps, ideas, etc. This suggestion came from Emily Remler, and many others - it is often thought of as getting you to the heavenly Wes Mongomery sound.

Similar suggestion from Paul Bollenback: over dom7/9/13 - think and play Dorian scales, arps, ideas from the fifth of the chord. This has the same result as the above suggestion, except you may be able to hear the dorian sound better than the melodic minor. So, over G7/9/13, you can think and play D-dorian ideas. For blues in "G7":

G7/9/13 - play Dminor, D melodic minor, or D dorian ideas

C7/9/13 - Gminor, G mel. minor, or G dorian ideas

D7/9/13 - Aminor, A mel. minor, or A dorian, etc.

You can take another step toward Wes and Pat Martino if you alter the V chord - D7b9, D7#5, D7#9, etc. If you do that, you'll need an altered scale approach on the V chord. If you're interested, let me know.
Hope I haven't rambled too long.

[tjalla]

See thread I started here:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-c...mel-brown.html

[JTM45blues]

Start with:

Willie Johnson (early Memphis Howlin Wolf stuff) - he's incredible, and he was basically playing swing lines with a big, fat distorted tone, lots of licks and chords to be learned here.

THEN:

T-Bone, Pee Wee Crayton, Charlie Christian, BB King

Then:

Hollywood Fats, Junior Watson, Nick Curran

Finally "master class":

Wes Montgomery, "Little" Charlie Baty


I play a lot of swing Hollywood Fats, Nick Curran and BB King style blues because I love that swingin rhythm sound. I'm afraid that I probably don't have the abilities to ever move on to approach the "holy ground" of Wes or Charlie, but its a lifelong aspiration for me. Both Wes and Charlie Baty seem to just have an endless supply of ideas, cool licks, phrases, and a killer sense of swing, and groove.

Anyway good luck and I hope this helps some. But please, do yourself a favor and check out Willie Johnson on that old Howlin Wolf stuff, he was mind blowingly incredible.

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Gminor7

For a couple more modern jazz/blues players, listen to Randy Johnston, Peter Bernstein, and Dave Stryker. They don't always play blues, but when they do, they are killing. Especially check out a tune by Stryker called "Our Miss Brooks", on his album "The Chaser". Randy Johnston has a great book out (Mel Bay) called Soul Jazz Guitar - a couple of great blues solos there. Stryker also has a Mel Bay book with a great blues in F solo.
Finally, you need to check out Paul Bollenback, often played with Joey Defrancesco.
I have been trying to develop a jazz-blues vocabulary for many years, and I definitely started with T-Bone, too. A couple of suggestions from major players helped me a lot:

Over any dominant 7/9/13 - think and play minor, or melodic minor up a fifth - over G9, play Dminor scales, arps, ideas, etc. This suggestion came from Emily Remler, and many others - it is often thought of as getting you to the heavenly Wes Mongomery sound.

Similar suggestion from Paul Bollenback: over dom7/9/13 - think and play Dorian scales, arps, ideas from the fifth of the chord. This has the same result as the above suggestion, except you may be able to hear the dorian sound better than the melodic minor. So, over G7/9/13, you can think and play D-dorian ideas. For blues in "G7":

G7/9/13 - play Dminor, D melodic minor, or D dorian ideas

C7/9/13 - Gminor, G mel. minor, or G dorian ideas

D7/9/13 - Aminor, A mel. minor, or A dorian, etc.

You can take another step toward Wes and Pat Martino if you alter the V chord - D7b9, D7#5, D7#9, etc. If you do that, you'll need an altered scale approach on the V chord. If you're interested, let me know.
Hope I haven't rambled too long.

Thanks, I will definitely play around with those.

[GitHead]

Well I finally ordered "Jazz for the Electric Blues Guitarist". I can't wait to get it. I also downloaded the first two Doug Seven videos. I knows hes not blues but he sure is a smokin guitarist. I haven't watched them yet. I hope they are great.

[Asat Bill]

Jazz Guitar by Jeff Schroedl (Hal Leonard)

[backalleyblues]

All of the above, and add in Sean Carney-blues with a heavy dose of jazz (btw, also a GREAT performer!). He also often plays an ES-175, kinda the de-facto jazz standard of jazz guitars...

Franc Robert

[Phaze]

Originally Posted by backalleyblues

All of the above, and add in Sean Carney-blues with a heavy dose of jazz (btw, also a GREAT performer!). He also often plays an ES-175, kinda the de-facto jazz standard of jazz guitars...

Franc Robert

Lot's of Sean on Youtube. Stuff from 23rd International Blues Challenge - 2007: First Prize went to Sean Carney Band from the Columbus Blues Alliance. Sean also took the Albert King Award for best guitarist and was also the Best Dressed!!

(Sean's a hometown boy)

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Phaze

Lot's of Sean on Youtube. Stuff from 23rd International Blues Challenge - 2007: First Prize went to Sean Carney Band from the Columbus Blues Alliance. Sean also took the Albert King Award for best guitarist and was also the Best Dressed!!

(Sean's a hometown boy)

Thanks, I saw a few clips of him on youtube at your recomendation. I'm going to download a few cuts from Amazon.

[Guitarsmurf]

One site that's helped me tremendously is "www.swingblues.com" which features a nicely structured and well-explained tutorial on swingblues. It explains the chords, the scales, the standard riffs and then delves deeper into getting more jazzy sounds. It features many different examples of full solos too.

[collinsman]

Originally Posted by GitHead

Hi, I'm a blues guitarist who wants to expand his vocabulary. Since comming to this forum I have found out about some great music and that has given me a thirst to grow. I'm loving the chicken pickin stuff and I'm loving the jazz stuff. Its become an addiction really. I'm about ready to trade my kids in on a Telecaster!

The purpose for this post is to discuss some jazz blues songs that are good to disect and study for the blues guitarist who wants to learn the jazz language.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Robben Ford plain and simple.

[Dookychase]

You might want to try Don Mock. He has a dvd titled The Blues from Rock to Jazz. Very informative. Really affordable. Well worth the money.

Great information.

[jjh37854]

hey Jazztele, thanks, great posts!

[62Caster]

Originally Posted by jazztele

alright, so let's start with something simple: I7 IV7 V7 blues. (lets do key of A)

over the I, you can play:

A blues scale (or minor pentatonic)
A major pentatonic
A mixolydian (major scale with a flat seventh)

over the IV

A blues scale/minor pentatonic
D mixolydian (D major with a flat seventh)

over the V

A blues scale/minor pentatonic
E mixolydian (E major with a flatted seventh)

you can also play hybrids of each, so, over the A, start with a minor pentatonic line but land on a C# (the major third)

you can also think arpeggios/chord tones and throw the scales by the wayside...i like this approach. in other words, when playing over the A7, play the notes that make up an A7. or, get a little deeper, and try A9. A11. A13. If your ears like it and it doesn't clash with the melody, any dominant 7th chord can be extended further into the 9th, 11th and 13th range (11ths are probably less common than 9th or 13th, which have "instant" bluesy sounds to them)

now, in order to start sounding jazzier, you're going to want to play the notes between the notes too...huh? I mean, approach the "money notes" chromatically. check this lick out over an I in a three chord blues in A

------------------5-------------------------------
---------5-6-sl-7----8-7-6-5----5-5---------------
--5-sl-6----------------------7----5-h-6----------
------------------------------------------7-6-5---
---------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------

what's happening there? really major pentatonic to minor pentatonic back to major, with a few chromatic passing tones. the last note of the series is the G, the flat seventh, which can be thought of as returning to minor or sugesting mixolydian (mixolydian is essentially the scale that most directly relates to a dom7th chord--not the only choice, but never a bad one)

again, this is just a start. but if you dig it, I'll keep it coming.

Keep it coming!!!

[Bob Mc]

GitHead,

If you ordered the Jazz for Blues DVD via Amazon marketplace, you bought it from me (Henny123). I went out earlier this week via First Class, hope you like it!

Bob

[cdtele]

My edu. DVD "Blues With Brains" is available now as a download and a physical copy. Can be ordered from my website.
I also just put up a myspace page.

http://www.myspace.com/blueswithbrains

Check it out as well as my website (below) to get a idea of where I'm coming from.
A lot of experience playing jazz with a deep love of blues.

http://www.chuckdaloiamusic.com/

Thanks,

Chuck

[Budda]

First post here. But, I guess I can just jump right in!

Chuck's DVD Blues With Brains IS really sweet! (I know I'm digging my copy).

All of the advice already given is very good. (Especially the Kenny Burrell and Grant Green tips :) ). Hopefully I can add something to this discussion.

I'd look at listening hard to "Kind Of Blue" by Miles Davis. It's the best ever selling Jazz Album for a reason. And "All Blues" is a lot of fun to play over.
Also, I'd suggest listening to a lot of Charlie Christian. He and T-Bone Walker were friends, and they are both very important, musically. Older yes. But, still very relevant. It would be a big mistake to overlook either of them.

Also, I'd suggest learning how to navigate some more "Jazzy Changes". As playing with Chord Tones and Resolutions, will be your key to opening up new vocabulary. "Stormy Monday Changes" are really a great way to open up your ears. These are different than the T-Bone version. Closer to how Bobby Blue Bland or the Allman Brothers Band might do it.

Here they are in G:

12 Bar Blues Form, with more

I G7 I C9 I G7 I G7 I
I C9 I C9 I G7 Am7 I Bm7 Bbm7 I
I Am7 I D9 I G7 C9 I G7 D9 II

Try learning to play this Tune in 3 different positions. Just using the Chords as they come up, to improvise.

Hope this helps!

[Schwalbe]

Roy Milton, Instant Groove.
Billy Butler lays it out. There is no finer Jazz/Blues recording.
http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Groove..._album_lnk_alt

[ibobunot]

Emily Remler - Blues


Marty Schwartz - Jazz up your Blues

[malko]

Originally Posted by jazztele

B. there are no bad notes, only bad resolutions.

Brilliant! Quote of the day. This is funny as i have posted looking for new things to learn, an initially it was country or blues, but theres something about the Jazz/Blues style with a little bit of Bebop that i love. I will have to check out these DVDs. So Jazz for the Electric Blues Guitarist Guitar is a good one to check? I have all the technique down just need to get something to inspire me into thinking outside of rock and scales!

[Budda]

Here's one thing to work with:

Take a simple 12 Bar Blues, and work on altering it in various ways.
Here's a really musical way to start:

"Basic 12 Bar Blues"

I G I G I G I G I
I C I C I G I G I
I D I C I G I G II

Modified 12 Bar Blues

I G I C I G I Dm G7 I
I C I C I G I G I
I D I C I G I D II

Modifications:
Bar 2, the "Quick Change" to the IV Chord.
Bar 4, ii V to the IV Chord that appears in Bar 5.
Bar 12, Finishing on the V Chord.

How about a new Turnaround?
So, in Bars 11 and 12:

I G Em I Am D7 II

Or maybe:

I G7 E7 I A7 D7 II


You can kind of "mix and match" these types of Modifications. You can use just 1 or 2 of them, or all of them. Context will help you determine how to apply them.

For something a little different and "Outside", try playing a Minor Pentatonic, built off of the b3rd. of the V Chord.

So, in the above 12 Bar Examples, try Fm Pentatonic over the D7 Chords.

Hope this helps!

[craigoslo]

how about learning jazz blues melody, like billies bounce

[craigoslo]

Originally Posted by GitHead

Okay an addon question. Anybody know where I can find a roadmap for chord and scale options for blues progressions? I mean from a jazz perspective.

The easiest yet most complete way to tink of it( in C for example).
Over the- I (C7) C mixolydian = C mixo
- IV (F7) C dorian = F mixo
- V (G7) C major scale = G mixo
I belive, thinking of it in relation to a C scale with changes, instead of 3 seperate scales makes things more musical quicker. But remember to "think" when you practice and not when you play.

Hope this helps.

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Bob Mc

GitHead,

If you ordered the Jazz for Blues DVD via Amazon marketplace, you bought it from me (Henny123). I went out earlier this week via First Class, hope you like it!

Bob

Hi Bob, THANKS!!!! I got it and have watched it. I'm working on getting his recommended chord fragments into my head. I can play them but I can't use them fluently over changes yet.

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by cdtele

My edu. DVD "Blues With Brains" is available now as a download and a physical copy. Can be ordered from my website.
I also just put up a myspace page.

http://www.myspace.com/blueswithbrains

Check it out as well as my website (below) to get a idea of where I'm coming from.
A lot of experience playing jazz with a deep love of blues.

http://www.chuckdaloiamusic.com/

Thanks,

Chuck

Thanks Chuck, I will definitely check it out!

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Budda

First post here. But, I guess I can just jump right in!

Chuck's DVD Blues With Brains IS really sweet! (I know I'm digging my copy).

All of the advice already given is very good. (Especially the Kenny Burrell and Grant Green tips :) ). Hopefully I can add something to this discussion.

I'd look at listening hard to "Kind Of Blue" by Miles Davis. It's the best ever selling Jazz Album for a reason. And "All Blues" is a lot of fun to play over.
Also, I'd suggest listening to a lot of Charlie Christian. He and T-Bone Walker were friends, and they are both very important, musically. Older yes. But, still very relevant. It would be a big mistake to overlook either of them.

Also, I'd suggest learning how to navigate some more "Jazzy Changes". As playing with Chord Tones and Resolutions, will be your key to opening up new vocabulary. "Stormy Monday Changes" are really a great way to open up your ears. These are different than the T-Bone version. Closer to how Bobby Blue Bland or the Allman Brothers Band might do it.

Here they are in G:

12 Bar Blues Form, with more

I G7 I C9 I G7 I G7 I
I C9 I C9 I G7 Am7 I Bm7 Bbm7 I
I Am7 I D9 I G7 C9 I G7 D9 II

Try learning to play this Tune in 3 different positions. Just using the Chords as they come up, to improvise.

Hope this helps!

THanks Budda, I just learned the solo to I found a new baby. I'm still getting it up to speed. It's an awesome solo. I haven't done any real analisys on it yet.

I have Kind of Blue. That is a great album. I also have the CD "About Last Night" by Larry Carlton with a great version of "All Blues" on it. I love his guitar tone on that CD. I believe he's using a Dumble amp on that.

I have downloaded a number of versions of Stormy Monday to see how different people have played it.

Thanks for your help.

[Corey]

+1 on the Robben Ford DVDs. Truly must see material. What an incredible guitarist -- and he does such an excellent job of presenting his material. I have several licks in my trick bag which originated with ideas I learned from his first DVD.

[GitHead]

Originally Posted by Corey

+1 on the Robben Ford DVDs. Truly must see material. What an incredible guitarist -- and he does such an excellent job of presenting his material. I have several licks in my trick bag which originated with ideas I learned from his first DVD.

I bought "Beyond the Blues". It is great. He starts with fairly standard progressions and scales and then turns up the heat.

[craigoslo]

That Emily Remler was amazing.

[Tele66]

Originally Posted by GitHead

I bought "Beyond the Blues". It is great. He starts with fairly standard progressions and scales and then turns up the heat.

I recently bought his: "The Art of Blues Rhythm" and just this week got "The Art of Blues Solos". If you don't mind spending a bit more, I recommend these as well. They are done in a 'clinic' fashion. He presents ideas and breaks them down a bit differently than the earlier vids.
They are complimentary to his previous stuff, not just a rehashing. I now have all his instructional vids and find good information in all of them. YMMV of course...

[craigoslo]

Originally Posted by craigoslo

The easiest yet most complete way to tink of it( in C for example).
Over the- I (C7) C mixolydian = C mixo
- IV (F7) C dorian = F mixo
- V (G7) C major scale = G mixo
I belive, thinking of it in relation to a C scale with changes, instead of 3 seperate scales makes things more musical quicker. But remember to "think" when you practice and not when you play.

Hope this helps.

I like this simple approach. However if you want a different approach, the 335 blues videos are supposed to be good. They are layed out in complicated maner, but larry carlton sometimes plays in a complicated way. If you can get your head around it, there are alot of great tips there.

[craigoslo]

Originally Posted by GitHead

I bought "Beyond the Blues". It is great. He starts with fairly standard progressions and scales and then turns up the heat.

Has anyone seen the new robben ford video about blues to jazz chords on you tube?

[Tele66]

Originally Posted by craigoslo

Has anyone seen the new robben ford video about blues to jazz chords on you tube?

If it's the one I've seen (he's playing a vintage Goldtop LP),
it is a segment taken from the 'Art of Blues Rhythm' DVD.

[strat a various]

Here are two tunes you can look for that define a couple of important elements of how Jazz players use the the word Blues (usually having very little to do with "real" Blues).

"Sugar", the guitarist on this 1970 Stanley Turrentine piece is George Benson. Important to absorb the Minor diatonic chords: I-7, VI-7b5, II-7b5, V7#9.

"Chitlins Con Carne", Kenny Burrel wrote it and he plays it best on his versions WITHOUT Jimmy Smith. Sounding like a Minor key initially, it's based on a 7th#9 I chord. Very hip blues, and a flavor that eludes a lot of Jazz players that try to sound bluesy. Kenny Burrell is the last word in "Blues to Jazz" guitarists.